Loveshooting Posted December 26, 2014 Report Share Posted December 26, 2014 Hi Guys. Advice again. Most of my pest control work is using a 22RF 17HMR and air rifles. I do get asked to control long range rooks and long range rabbits (300 yards plus) which sometimes is a bit long stretch for the HMR. Options are 17 Hornet, 204 Ruger, i will never get permission for my 223 on this land as according to my firearms officer 'the land is not big enough' I am not talking small area, 100 to 200 achers of arable land, yes i have some small bits but the present armoury will cover them. What are your thoughts, i can load my own ammo, not sure about the component availability yet. In a nutshell are either of them a worthwhile investment or just go with what i have ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visiter1 Posted December 26, 2014 Report Share Posted December 26, 2014 i was using a 17hmr , den when the hornet came out i got a heavy one built , it quiet relaodable and well fit to take rabbit and crows o 300 i do it all the time it also is a great fox gun if u get them in to 200 yards , hope this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pork chop Posted December 26, 2014 Report Share Posted December 26, 2014 if they won't pass 223 i cant see them passing the 204.have you thought of the 22 hornet i had some ground that was ok for hornet but nothing any bigger.l got a 22 hornet with the intention of having 17 barrel put on but never bothered in the end as it does well on fox and takes crows over 200y or so easy enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srvet Posted December 26, 2014 Report Share Posted December 26, 2014 17 rem or fireball? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted December 26, 2014 Report Share Posted December 26, 2014 For 300y rabbits and especially corvids (small target),the 204 offers considerably better ballistics. A good brief summary is given by a cartridges drop"/drift"/energy ft lb so compare: 300 yards,10 mph,200 zero: 17HMR 17 mv 2550 100 zero 200y 9/14 70.....NOT a 300y option 22 Hornet 40 g 3100 10.5/15.8/268.....the 17Hornet will be better 17 Rem 25 4040 5/12/325 223 40 3800 5.5/12/479 204R 40 3900 4.3/7.8/674 It is pretty clear that the 17Rem,223and 204R are,in ascending order the 300y choices. Pork Chop's point is good-it is hard to see any coherent ,well informed,reason to allow the more powerful 204,and refuse the 223-though you imply that is the choice "offered"....?? If you already have a 223,that would be a good choice,with no need for anything with more performance in this application,in another rifle,but the HMR is simply not viable as a 300y cartridge-even at 200y,it is noticeably inferior to the above trio at 300y. 223 has the 300y performance,anything else mentioned duplicates or exceeds....or is unsuitable.Check with your FLO? gbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy_SP Posted December 26, 2014 Report Share Posted December 26, 2014 204R 40 3900 4.3/7.8/674 It'd be interesting to see the same info, but for the 32 grain bullet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted December 27, 2014 Report Share Posted December 27, 2014 It'd be interesting to see the same info, but for the 32 grain bullet! OK:204 Ruger commercial loads,BCs about .207,200 zero,drop drift energy: 300y Hornady 32g vmax @ 4225 4.1/9.8/512 Federal 32 Nosler BT 4030 4.7/10.6/450 Rem 32 Accutip 4225 4.1/10.1/500 Win 32 Silvertip 4050 4.6/10.6/457 Not a very significant drop/drift difference,but all give up energy (approx150 ft lb) compared to the 40g (though still very adequate!) gbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy_SP Posted December 27, 2014 Report Share Posted December 27, 2014 OK:204 Ruger commercial loads,BCs about .207,200 zero,drop drift energy: 300y Hornady 32g vmax @ 4225 4.1/9.8/512 Federal 32 Nosler BT 4030 4.7/10.6/450 Rem 32 Accutip 4225 4.1/10.1/500 Win 32 Silvertip 4050 4.6/10.6/457 Not a very significant drop/drift difference,but all give up energy (approx150 ft lb) compared to the 40g (though still very adequate!) gbal Many thanks - that is most interesting - I never got around to punching the figures into my ballistic program! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
247sniper Posted December 27, 2014 Report Share Posted December 27, 2014 From what you have describes id go .204. However, like has already been said, if the wont a allow a .223 on that land, the most certainly wont allow a .204, according to their data they go off, IE ACPO and home office guidelines the .204 is more power-fuller, or in the real world it has more energy, this tends to be what the police go off. Why wont they allow .223? Because the land is "Too small" is complete b o l l o c k s. Its not really to do with the size of the land, its to do with the topography (The lay of the land) I shoot all my center fire rifles on a football pitch, now at first thought, you may think OMG. Crows and rabbits destroy the pitch, the pitch backs onto a massive hill that provides and excellent backstop and I shoot rabbits out to 430 yrds on that land. As you can see this land is tiny but the topography provides very safe shooting for center fire rifles. I would question it and as why and dont take that it too small as an answer. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soother223 Posted December 27, 2014 Report Share Posted December 27, 2014 I can sort of sympathise with him when they say they won't allow a 223.. had a similar issue with my local force! They just see .22 as a larger calibre than 20 cal because of bullet diameter! I must stress that I completely disagree of course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunner Posted December 27, 2014 Report Share Posted December 27, 2014 Id get the 204 if theyl let you ? Perfect for 300 and abit more , very frangible bullets equals safer caliber than some others . Atb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted December 27, 2014 Report Share Posted December 27, 2014 Id get the 204 if theyl let you ? Perfect for 300 and abit more , very frangible bullets equals safer caliber than some others . Atb. Agreed, I have a 17AH, 200 yards on rabbits etc yes, but 300 yards then the 20gr pill just gets blown around to much. A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soother223 Posted December 27, 2014 Report Share Posted December 27, 2014 Think if it were me i would ditch the hmr... get a 17 hornet an get your 223 on the longer stuff... Especially if your shooting quite a lot of rabbits! You will have to reload the hornet though or it will cost you a fortune! But it's easy enough... worked my load up in one afternoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanner Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 Hi Guys. Advice again. Most of my pest control work is using a 22RF 17HMR and air rifles. I do get asked to control long range rooks and long range rabbits (300 yards plus) which sometimes is a bit long stretch for the HMR. Options are 17 Hornet, 204 Ruger, i will never get permission for my 223 on this land as according to my firearms officer 'the land is not big enough' I am not talking small area, 100 to 200 achers of arable land, yes i have some small bits but the present armoury will cover them. What are your thoughts, i can load my own ammo, not sure about the component availability yet. In a nutshell are either of them a worthwhile investment or just go with what i have ? They do talk such bullshit, a backstop is a backstop wherever you are. The only criteria to judge you on is if you are safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pork chop Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 if only it was just that simple.for what its worth i agree with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickenthief Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 A 17 Hornet will do at @180m~200yds what the 17HMR does at the muzzle, but there is some curvature ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 Hornady Superformance ammo claims (reloading won't equal this): 17Hornet,20g@3650;200 zero (294ftlb): 300 6.4/200 400 20.6/131 drop/ftlb wind drift will be more than the 55g/223 Hornady likens the drop data to....(223 at 300 11 inches ,400 21 inches approx 10 mph drift). So it might do for 300y low wind,occasional shots,quieter moderated,...and might get FLO blessing? gbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deerless Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 Hi Guys. Advice again. Most of my pest control work is using a 22RF 17HMR and air rifles. I do get asked to control long range rooks and long range rabbits (300 yards plus) which sometimes is a bit long stretch for the HMR. Options are 17 Hornet, 204 Ruger, i will never get permission for my 223 on this land as according to my firearms officer 'the land is not big enough' I am not talking small area, 100 to 200 achers of arable land, yes i have some small bits but the present armoury will cover them. What are your thoughts, i can load my own ammo, not sure about the component availability yet. In a nutshell are either of them a worthwhile investment or just go with what i have ? You don't say how long you have held your FAC or if you are on an open cert. Deerless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 A 17 Hornet will do at @180m~200yds what the 17HMR does at the muzzle, but there is some curvature ;-) Not a lot, zero 12mm high at 100 yards and its about 2 inches low at 200 yards, roughly. Its the wind that gets you not the drops. A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snaggletooth Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Not a lot, zero 12mm high at 100 yards and its about 2 inches low at 200 yards, roughly. Its the wind that gets you not the drops. A Could you give us a rough figure for wind drift @ 200yards in, say, a 10mph crosswind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Ball park (I don't have data for the 17 Hornet Superformance factory only load/velociy,but: 20g Berger 3400fps 12+ mph wind 71/2 inches drift,at200-say about 7 inches in 10mph. (17rem 20g @4250 is still 5 inches drift at 200 in 10mph,but 12 inches at 300-so that sets a marker of sorts-not much will beat that in 17 cal,though Ruger 204 32g @4225 nearly gets down to 4 inches at 200,10 inches at 300). gbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snaggletooth Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Ball park (I don't have data for the 17 Hornet Superformance factory only load/velociy,but: 20g Berger 3400fps 12+ mph wind 71/2 inches drift,at200-say about 7 inches in 10mph. (17rem 20g @4250 is still 5 inches drift at 200 in 10mph,but 12 inches at 300-so that sets a marker of sorts-not much will beat that in 17 cal,though Ruger 204 32g @4225 nearly gets down to 4 inches at 200,10 inches at 300). gbal Thanks for that, there's a lot figures quoted for 17hornet's trajectory, but not so much on drift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Thanks for that, there's a lot figures quoted for 17hornet's trajectory, but not so much on drift. Agreed-since Hornady make much of the similar drop for 55g 223,it's probable that IF the 17H was also similar in drift,Hornady would say so- but the 20 g berger load suggests it's around 7 inches....only test field firing can say for any particular rifle/load,of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatzi Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 I enjoyed using my 17 Hornet for rabbits, mainly because it was significantly quieter than anything else, almost 17 HMR levels. You can argue all the other factors until the cows come home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hem88 Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 Will 17 hornet bullet exit a rabbit or will it fragment and not exit I can't decide if it is as safe as hmr can anyone advise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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