dorg Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 We are now scratching an itch and putting a 300 rum together. I was wondering what do you all think the best bullet and powder for this maybe. I'm thinking a 230gn Berger hybrid any ideas please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiltshire Boy Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Powder wise something very slow I would have thought H1000 Retumbo N170 or 570 I'll have a play on quick load if you like cheers Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Would have thought the 230 was the preferred option, so long as you have a twist rate and shoulder to cope…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorg Posted October 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Rifle weight ill be right on the limit and we will run it with a muzzle brake when not being used for comps and with the barrel life it will be a bad weather rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tackb Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 I run mine with 208 AMAX and retumbo , performs well at 3250 FPS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary C Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Good luck with that one Joe ! I have been using a .300WSM all year with mixed results, when it's on form its unbeatable however the recoil with speeds over 2900 is not really manageable for 15 and 20 shot strings, I hate to think what a 100 grains of powder and 230 bullet will be like unbreaked! Remember you load may be different with the break on or off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Good luck with that one Joe ! I have been using a .300WSM all year with mixed results, when it's on form its unbeatable however the recoil with speeds over 2900 is not really manageable for 15 and 20 shot strings, I hate to think what a 100 grains of powder and 230 bullet will be like unbreaked! Remember you load may be different with the break on or off. Steve Blair in the US says the same thing about the .300WSM/230 combination in US F-Class. Go on the Accurate Shooter Forum and do a search for Sleepygator or Steve Blair. He says the hardest thing about getting the WSM to work with 230s was getting the rifle handling consistent, and like Gary eventually settled on loads producing MVs below 2,900 fps. The RUM can only make life harder. Still, what's not to try? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Relative recoil factors: 300 WSM/RSAUM 2.36 300 WIN MAG 2.39 30/378 W'BY 2.55 300 RUM 2.64 All SAAMI,not souped up! (308W is 1.95,just for base line guide). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorg Posted October 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Its a play thing really but we have the parts and the reamer, Joe is planning on a real serious attempt at the league next year after this years failures, and will only use this weapon in real bad weather conditions. We have learnt so much this season and are beginning to understand what is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mik Mak Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 I feed mine 210 Berger Hybrids, works well, but hasnt been used in Anger yet let me know if I can help Cheers Mik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Relative recoil factors: 300 WSM/RSAUM 2.36 300 WIN MAG 2.39 30/378 W'BY 2.55 300 RUM 2.64 All SAAMI,not souped up! (308W is 1.95,just for base line guide). Yes, but based on 'hunting rifle' weights and standard factory loads. Running my 18lb FTR rifle and 155.5gn 308 Win load through a recoil calculator says 9.2 ft/lb recoil energy and 5.7 fps free recoil velocity. A 22lb F/O rifle with 300WSM and 230gn kept down to 2,850 fps with ~80gn powder charges sees 16 ft/lb energy and 6.8 fps velocity. This seems to be around most people's limit for precise and consistent shooting with the WSM. Taking the same 22lb rifle and increasing the MV to 2,950 fps with 90gn charges in the RUM increases recoil to 18.8 ft/lb / 7.4 fps. BUT ... you could say why have a RUM when the WSM produces those MVs more efficiently. Although up to 3,100 fps should be obtainable from the RUM, let's say 3,050 fps is the sensible upper limit and 95gn charges are used, and we get 21.1 ft/lb recoil energy and 7.8 fps free recoil velocity. The real comparison to the .300 magums with 210-230gn bullets isn't .308 Win of course, but 180s at ~3,000 fps in the short 7mm magnums. A 22lb F/O rifle and 7mm produces 11.2 ft/lb recoil energy and 5.7 fps free velocity, a surprisingly small addition to the 308 and showing just why these heavy rifles in the calibre shot off very stable platforms can produce such impressively consistent results when it's allied to superb rifle/ammunition precision and bullets that seem to be really ideally suited to the 1,000 yard distance at these velocities and the predominantly adopted rifling twist rates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Yes,thanks Laurie-your data help put the competitive use of heavy recoilers into some perspective. I was just outlining what recoil penalties such calibers present,more for anyone not too familiar-hence my quoting relative recoil-I think these relative figures transfer,mutatis mutandum,as it were- to other rifles,and indeed ammo where weight of rifle and cartridge momentum (mass.velocity) are increased,if we do a 'like to like' comparison. I was not implying any superiority/otherwise etc-just giving a comparative basis-assuming most might have some idea of the baseline 308w-on a 'no free lunch ' basis....or just maybe,to hint that a 300 RUM has it's drawbacks as a vaminter! :-) g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 I was not implying any superiority/otherwise etc-just giving a comparative basis-assuming most might have some idea of the baseline 308w-on a 'no free lunch ' basis....or just maybe,to hint that a 300 RUM has it's drawbacks as a vaminter! :-) g Not taken as such George. Like you, I'll usually take 308 Win as a baseline as most people have experience of its performance and recoil etc. Shooting off a FLEX-bipod, I can subjectively feel the increased recoil when I switch from a 155.5gn load to my fairly hot 168gn Hybrid combination and would prefer I didn't. So, .300 magnums of any description with max loads and bullets weighing more than 200gn simply don't figure in my view of viable options. (I seem to have a knack of always being squadded close to Diggle's resident .338LM user in club F-Class matches. Now, there's a brave, or some would say unwise guy - a tactical rifle weight 338 shot off a bi-pod even though match organisers allow him to keep the muzzle brake on!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bewsh Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 not quite the same but.... I put two "2+15 shot" strings of 208gr (78gr H1000 circa 2850-2900) loads down range at a meet a while ago mine is a sporter stocked Tikka with a slightly short barrel no idea what it weighs Also had to remove the brake due to the muzzle blast shredding the foam in the percussion barrels at the range I now run a moderator.. It was doable and I don't feel my scores or accuracy wandered as a result of recoil (plenty of other things to blame there!) Certainly had some "recoil memory" in my shoulder the following day, no bruising or pain.... That said I am 6'4" and up around 90-100kg. Am sure that counts for something when it comes to recoil absorption fun though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 not quite the same but.... ....................... It was doable and I don't feel my scores or accuracy wandered as a result of recoil (plenty of other things to blame there!) Certainly had some "recoil memory" in my shoulder the following day, no bruising or pain.... That said I am 6'4" and up around 90-100kg. Am sure that counts for something when it comes to recoil absorption fun though! Without being at in any way patronising, an informal range session or fun shoot doesn't place the same precision, accuracy and consistency requirements on a participant as high-level F-Class competition. Moreover, most such shoots still use the standard NRA and International TR targets with a 1-MOA diameter 'V' and 2-MOA 5-Bull rings. The 800-1,000 yard F-Class target rings are set at half the diameters of the TR etc target, which doesn't halve the ring area, rather reduces it to only 25%. So, the F-Class long-range (800-1,000yd) centre's V-Bull is only 5.25" diameter, the '5-Bull' double that at 10 1/2 inches. Even with these tiny rings, many GB league round aggregate scores only see a handful of dropped points and two or three points covering the top five or six places out of HPS aggregates of 450 and more points with places frequently determined by V-count. While not as intense as this, many well attended club level long-range shoots see impressively high scores put in for 20-round matches. Something that looks to shoot well, and does so by all normal standards, often comes up well short when put into competition in this environment. Shooter comfort and gun handling are important and there simply isn't the wriggle-room anymore that let's a slightly different hold and gun position still hold the 5-ring. A key requirement is elevation consistency - to get competitive scores, the cartridge, rifle, and shooter have got to be capable of putting every bullet within a really small imaginary horizontal corridor drawn across the target centre (or 'waterline' as it's often called). Light rifles that kick hard rarely manage this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 ....and we might add in for BR ,a preferred strategy of getting 5 shots off in the same wind condition,maybe 20 seconds. Again,very much more difficult the more the rifle recoils 'out of battery',as it were,on the rests.... getting it realigned etc is just too slow....and a potential advantage option s lost. I agree Laurie,155 to 185 is noticeable in a 308 factory rifle under 10lb,and both are less comfortable/enjoyable to shoot than say a 6BR. The issue is twofold-however well you absorb recoil-even enjoy it (??)-it is hard to see recoil as a precision aid. And more critically,the general jump/movement of the rifle is not helpful to consistent shooting,when accuracy and precision are at a premium (compared to a couple of inches slide on the bags and push forward almost into re-alignment). I have no idea what reserves facing a string of 15 charging pachyderms would inspire,though 2 fastish shots from a Nitro Express double were quite exhilarating. gbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiker Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 WOW!!!!!!! I am sticking to FTR thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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