35gr Hornady NTX

[Big Al]

Has anyone used this round in their .223, speed figures are impressive and very similar to .204 Ruger.

 

Im looking to try something in the 35gr range, Hornady also do a 35gr Vmax which would normally be for the .22 Hornet and Nosler do a 35gr Varmageddon.

 

Has anyone tried running these lighter bullets through a .223 at around 4000fps or is there an obvious reason why not?

 

[247sniper]

Has anyone used this round in their .223, speed figures are impressive and very similar to .204 Ruger.

 

Im looking to try something in the 35gr range, Hornady also do a 35gr Vmax which would normally be for the .22 Hornet and Nosler do a 35gr Varmageddon.

 

Has anyone tried running these lighter bullets through a .223 at around 4000fps or is there an obvious reason why not?

 

 

Yes there is a obvious reason Al, they have a dire bullet BC, absolutely crap! Yeh great MV to start with but sheds speed quicker then a house brick, wont be very flat shooting and will be dire in the wind mate.

 

The .204 you compare it too has a bullet BC of of over 2.5x the figure of the 35 Vamax, that why the 20's are good, good speeds with decent ( for weight) bullet BC's.

 

Hope this answers your question fella?

Steve

[Big Al]

Thanks for the info Steve.

 

Having ran the figures I can see your point although in comparison to the figures from my 2950fps 55gr SBK's the 35gr NTX still significantly out perform my current load out to 350.

 

Agreed its no .204 but out to 300 I think these lighter bullets could be worth a look for me in my quest for reduced recoil perhaps?

[Jamie]

I've been temped to make up some .223 rounds with the 35 V-Max, as I have around 60 odd left over from my Hornet days.

But having read Steve's post on the crap BC rating I think i'll shelve it for now. Although I may have a go at some point just for fun...

Jamie

[247sniper]

Tbh Al, it must be something your doing with your form if your not able to maintain site picture through your scope. I was shooting 585 yard gongs with my custom .223 AI with 80 grain AMax on sat with nimprobs what so ever, even on 24x mag.

[gbal]

Al, +1 on Steve's point re low BC.I've tried 36 g Barnes Varmint grenades in 222 (I"ll maybe do 223 at the weekend); accuracy was good(.2s),and terminal effect will be dramatic,but the downside is fairly rapid velocity loss,and therefore increased wind drift.As in (223):

 

36VG BC.149 @ 3750 200y 0/3.5 300y 7/9 400y 25/18 inches,modest 5mph wind

40 Vmax BC.2 3800 0/5 5.5/6 18/ 11.5

 

The extra 3" at 300 is not offset by any benefit-and as you know,even with a slight wind error,it's a miss-so 3 more inches isn't helpful! (scope blip is almost non existent-but just the same with the 40g. x25,Leupold varmint reticule.

Scope jump will be a less apparent at distance too-I've seen heart beat twitches at 100 with 36x-and Bench Rest adrenaline-just relax the hold a bit,as per BR technique, nearly free recoil(on bags of course).

g

[Big Al]

36VG BC.149 @ 3750 200y 0/3.5 300y 7/9 400y 25/18 inches,modest 5mph wind

40 Vmax BC.2 3800 0/5 5.5/6 18/ 11.5

 

Hornady quote 4000 for the 35gr NTX George and a BC of .177 - how mud does that change things?

 

As I said earlier, according to the Hornady Ballistic Calculator this 35gr NTX running at 4000 runs very close to my current 55gr load to 350yds, slightly better for drop slightly worse for drift.

[247sniper]

 

Hornady quote 4000 for the 35gr NTX George and a BC of .177 - how mud does that change things?

 

As I said earlier, according to the Hornady Ballistic Calculator this 35gr NTX running at 4000 runs very close to my current 55gr load to 350yds, slightly better for drop slightly worse for drift.

 

I think it will still make no difference, if you are shooting out to 200-250 max then they would result in great splat factor. You Al however like long range targets and vermin etc and seem to be forever increasing your ranges as your ability as your knowledge and experience improves, IMO you need to be stepping your bullet choice up, not down.

 

Like I said before, if you are suffering from muzzle flip then you need to change/modify/improve/practice your form and if need be make some changes, I think you will most defiantly regret changing to a poorer bullet to compensate for some sort off form error it in the future .

[gbal]

Hornady give 55Vmax BC.255 @ 3240 300y 7/5.5 400 21/11.5 inches,5mph breeze

 

Pretty much the SAAMI specs-I won't quote anything else normally,as it's 'safe for all',and I've had enough of the 'no pressure signs in my rifle,just the usual flat primers and slightly stiff bolt lift" kind of non sense for too hot loads.

 

Hornady 204 will give 32Vmax (.210) @ 4225 300 4/5 400 13/9.5

 

40 Vmax .275 3900 4/4 13/7.5

 

 

So with a bit of extrapolation,its predictable that some more velocity and BC will reduce any gaps.....what is to be gained from the ultralight though,when the slightly heavier (40 eg) is around the same is moot.

 

All this of course,depends on accuracy being preserved. I try to quote same Manufacture,and same bullet like "Hornady with V max", if such exists ccommercially,so as to minimise any hidden differences in just what BC is being used/abused.....admittedly,most are G1 (aren't they) but there are another 8 models to chose,and at least three velocity band BCs for each.....does the ballistic program know this? (G7/Litz are the best fit to current bullets,and should be closest fit to live firing (if Mv is correct....).

The potential for mischief is considerable,but generally a few comparisons get quite close,and usually all the huff and puff means a few clicks only....and you just have to know your rifle's performance.

Fun trying,of course.

g

[Big Al]

 

I think it will still make no difference, if you are shooting out to 200-250 max then they would result in great splat factor. You Al however like long range targets and vermin etc and seem to be forever increasing your ranges as your ability as your knowledge and experience improves, IMO you need to be stepping your bullet choice up, not down.

 

Like I said before, if you are suffering from muzzle flip then you need to change/modify/improve/practice your form and if need be make some changes, I think you will most defiantly regret changing to a poorer bullet to compensate for some sort off form error it in the future .

 

I get your point Steve, so much so its worth starting a thread about it.

 

http://ukvarminting.com/forums/topic/26291-seeing-the-strike/

[sako]

I just got some 35g ntx, just to use to 200y with reduced loads for rabbits crows replacing 17hmr.
........But something in me says try them flat out in a 22 250

[gbal]

I just got some 35g ntx, just to use to 200y with reduced loads for rabbits crows replacing 17hmr.

........But something in me says try them flat out in a 22 250

Well...of course....Black Hills do a commercial 222/250 loading thus: (200 zero,10 mph wind,drop/drift in inches.....

 

Barnes 36g Varmint Grenade BC .149 @ 4250 300y 5/15 400y 18/30 500y 43/53 compare/contrast :

 

CorBon 40g Blitzking BC.21 @4200 4/10 13/19 29/32

 

 

Usual price paid for low BC....useable/comparable (to about 300y), then dies ( velocity at 400 is 1696 for 36g,but 2254 for the 40g,and at 500 it's 1296 v 1882,and that's a huge difference........

 

gbal

[Matastrophe]

Ive used the 35 grn NTX in my .222, in fact that's all i use in it. I think they are great, flat enough to nealy 300 yards. They drop foxes, rabbits and everything else ive shot at.

[dylan5588]

I may be mistaken, but i am sure i read somewhere that the Hornady 35gn vmax was designed specifically for the Hornet, and not advisable to take it much over the 3100 mark, as it is has a very thin jacket, and cannot stand up to the speeds a .223 will generate, please correct me if i am wrong.

Adrian

[Big Al]

I may be mistaken, but i am sure i read somewhere that the Hornady 35gn vmax was designed specifically for the Hornet, and not advisable to take it much over the 3100 mark, as it is has a very thin jacket, and cannot stand up to the speeds a .223 will generate, please correct me if i am wrong.

Adrian

 

35gr NTX is sold as a factory load in .223 running at 4000fps.

[gbal]

Just a heads up,lads-if you look at the data and user's comments,then the light (35 ish) bullets look OK to 250 (222),300 (223)-and have effective terminal performance,at least on small critters-remember they are designed for US prairie dogs-think ground squirrels.They will be terrific on crows too-they may fail sometimes on fox,for which there are ballistically better somewhat heavier bullets (check the retained energy-irrelevant for crows,not for fox).

What they do though is just run out of steam-see the velocity drop off beyond 300/350- it is terrible (compared to the heavier bullets).No,they are fine 250 y rabbit and crow bullets (some may well be very destructive-that may vary a bit.

 

Steve is absolutely right-better longer range comes from heavier bullets -well,much better BCs really.They also are superior in energy. The extra decisive clincher is wind drift-drop is just not an issue (because it will only be a few inches,and as you are dialling in,does six more clicks matter-no,drop is an exact science-given a laser- but windage is a guesstimate-we just can't be precise-worse still,even if we could it changes moment to moment-so the considerably greater drift values for the light/low BC bullets become unsustainable-you will be making say 10% wind errors on 20 inches (2 inches,and marginal/miss),compared to 10% of 10 inches (1 inch,and probably OK),and that just gets worse-a lot worse- with distance.

Either shoot in near zero wind,or get the best BC bullet available for that category of critter.

 

Out to 250/300 (for varminting 224s) velocity is good,beyond that BC is overwhelming.

Ask not what MV 3900 can do for you,ask what velocity 1800 will do to you. (miss at 300).

 

gbal

 

ps velocity much below 1800 fps reduces BC even more....see Sierra's useful data on BC/velocity

[dylan5588]

 

35gr NTX is sold as a factory load in .223 running at 4000fps.

I was referring to the 35gn vmax, that someone mentioned in an earlier post, Not the 35g NTX of which i have no knowledge of.

Adrian

[gbal]

Hmmmm

 

Hornady do market the 223 Superformance 35g NTX (BC??).

Marketing makes much of its velocity superiority......( can it be reloaded???-do you want to...?)

Here are the velocities for this load (with Hornady's 40 vmax load in brackets):

 

35NTX muzzle 4000(3800) 100 3354(3249) 200 2795(2762) 300 2299(2324) 400 1858(1928) 500 1480(1578)

 

 

Initial velocity advantage is lost beyond 300y.

 

Does that seem familiar?You can probably imagine the slender margin that 33 fps at 200y really means....

 

gbal

[happyhunter]

Big Al, are you sure your 55grn load is only doing 2950fps?

 

My .223 load for the 52grn a-max is running @ 3500fps, run those figures and see how it compares to the 35grn ntx?

[Big Al]

Big Al, are you sure your 55grn load is only doing 2950fps?

 

My .223 load for the 52grn a-max is running @ 3500fps, run those figures and see how it compares to the 35grn ntx?

 

Yes the velocity has been chrono'd - 22.5gr of N133 through my 20" barrel is giving me an average of 2950.

 

The 52gr Amax compares very well but I was interested in the lighter bullet weight.

[onehole]

Big Al I think we all know by now that your keen to try the light stuff and I think you will get some zippy flat performance,,,,,,,I,ve done this one some time ago with .222 and .223 and had some fun but what I did notice is that once you get out to 200 and beyond and the winds a little bit more than a breeze these fast little things can sometimes tend to be a bit flighty and don,t stick to their computed trajectory very well let alone wind call.Different calibre I know but I tried 110 Vmax in my 308 with stonking grouping in calm conditions even at 200 yards but on a windy day,,,,,forget it!! absolutey hopeless and this is relatively short range? I wish you well but BC is king mate,,,,,O

[Big Al]

I appreciate the feedback on this guys and also the collective wisdom/experience.

 

Ive no doubt that the opinion that past 300yds these little fast things falter and BC reigns supreme is right so if it was a 400yd+ bullet I was looking for then I would take your advice, I also don't dispute the fact that heavier with good BC is best over longer ranges.

[CliveWard]

Hi Al,

 

I use the 36 gr Barnes Varmint Grenade in my .223 which is mainly used with NV where range estimation is trickier and it's very forgiving out to 250 yards which is far enough for that sort of caper. Very quickly looses legs after that.

 

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

Clive