Remington 700 Action

[Bambi-basher]

A bit controversial this topic, but I hope it will make people think a bit more about there choice for a action to base their rifle of a life time on.

 

Now while as a standard factory rifle the Remmy 700 might have its good points, and they can be made to shoot as a custom rifle especially in the lighter calibres. I feel that it has a number of inherit design flaws as a base for your dream custom rifle.

 

Now it is easy to see why gunsmiths push these as a base for a custom rifle, there are all the bits available to just bolt on, Stocks ready inleted, barrels threaded for the action and chambered off the shelf, oversized bolts to take all that slop out, oversize recoil lugs, complete trigger assemblies ect ect. You can then kid ever body you have a rifle that’s better than another manufactures that was designed right from the start.

 

The receiver is cylindrical, easy and cheap to manufacture, but a flat bottomed action is superior. The problem with the cylindrical receiver is compounded by the design of the recoil lug, the only thing holding the recoil lug in place is how tight you can screw the barrel on.

 

The above are not ideal because when firing the rifle the action of the bullet being spun in the barrel’s rifling cause the rifle barrel/receiver to rotate in the opposite direction, the recoil lug transfers this rotational forces though the side of the recoil lug into the stock which is being held by yourself or bi-pod ect. While with light to medium calibres the clamping force of the barrel being screwed onto the action can handle this in heavy calibres and with repeated firings the barrel and receiver will rotate around the lug. (Putting in a thicker recoil lug will not help as the limiting factor is how tight you can torque the barrel up.)

 

A flat bottomed action has no such problem and all the recoil lug has to do is transfer the reward recoil forces into the stock. If the recoil lug was integral on the 700 receiver it would not be as bad.

 

The bolt on the Remmy is a two lug design again easy and cheap to manufacture, but a three lug bolt distributes the forces more evenly into the receiver think of it like a 3 legged stool, another advantage is you only have to lift the bolt 60 degrees to unlock the 3 lug bolt this gives more clearance with scopes.

 

The extractor is often replace by custom gunsmith with a Sako one as the Remmy one is perceived to be too fragile.

 

The mounting of the scope bases/rings is by 4 small machine screws or by only 3 if you use some of the one piece scope mounting bases. Again easy and cheap to drill and tap 4 holes. Now 40 years ago that would have been more than adequate for the scopes used then if you even had one. But the size and weight of modern optics require some thing more substantial in my opinion. A dovetail cut into the receiver with a recoil stop or something like a Weaver base bolted on with some decent sized machine screws or ideally cut into the top of the receiver would be a far better design.

 

To my mind a Sako 75 action is superior in every way to the Remmington 700 as a base for a custom rifle. Flat bottomed, integral recoil lug built into the receiver, a 3 lug bolt, a good scope mounting system, good trigger and stainless steel 5 shot magazine that mounts flush with the bottom of the rifle. Put a good barrel on it, bolt into a custom stock and away you go.

 

The fact that Remmingtons shoot as well as they do must be a testament to how much a good barrel effects how a rifle shoots.

 

I think the real reason so many people choose the Remmy is for a bit of Macho Posing: ie it has had this done and that done with this Gucci bit and this custom part. Far more impressive to the mates on the range. Oh and it is relatively cheap to build.

 

But all you have tried to do is turn a pigs ear into a silk purse.

 

Remmington 700 Action, a triumph of relentless development over good basic design or not, what do you think?

 

 

Regards

 

B-b

 

Now waiting incoming from incensed 700 owners, but hey now’t like a bit of good discussion, no personal insults please let have a good clean fight.

[Guest Smeagle]

I have to get into this, this is a particular favorite subject of mine. By the way I have both the 700 and the Sako's in both 75 and 85. I have owned dozens of Remington's and six of them passed through my hands last year alone. Why do I keep buying them because I have this stubborn streak and have been determined to make a decent rifle out of at least one of them before I shuffle from this mortal coil.

 

Simply put in my personal opinion they are garbage, I will not be buying another one. They are fine as a cheap rifle which is the way they have gone, the top end has fallen away dramatically over the past few years. They have made the business decision to compete with Howa and Weatherby and are selling more easily produced and cheap rifles, which is fine if that is what you want, but they are more expensive than the Howa and no where near as good. To be honest it is a testimony to how much they have fallen when I am comparing a Remington to a Howa, old man Remington must be doing cartwheels in his eternal slumber The great Lion hunter reduced to the bargain bin, its sacrilege. I am afraid that trading on a great name only takes you so far.

 

Then we have to ask the question why is there so much after market goodies for them, because the stuff they come with is crap, everyone changes them out to get them to a reasonable standard. Why are they the basis of so many custom rifles again they need so much work to get them up there, by the time you have spent a small fortune to get them up by blueprinting, changing extractors, triggers etc you might as well buy a RPA or similar. Then there is the calibre choice, the so called Varmint modals don't even come in varmint calibres, and the standard hunting modals, try and find one in arguably the most popular calibre on the planet .308. Then there is the magazines and feed problems, the mags doesn't work the rifle doesn't work very simple. Sorry but they are stuck in a time warp and have been superseded on every level. Everyone else virtually has gone to controlled feed but not Remington, how long did it take for them to get onto the WSM bandwagon and that was only consumer pressure.

 

The Yanks have just discovered the Sako's and have realised what they have been missing for all these years and Sako cannot keep up with the orders they are doing tremendous business over there. These are not cheap rifles but for the money you get so much more, I have or am in the process of changing all my bolt action rifles to Sako. I can only hope that someone from Remington is reading this because they need a rethink of what they are doing, and if you think that we the shooting public will continue to put up with this crap look what happened to Winchester. Of course there will be some die hard's who will never admit it but Remington are not what they where.

 

As for the basis of a custom rifle, which part are you going to use, none of it comes up to scratch.

[Roebuck]

I have or am in the process of changing all my bolt action rifles to Sako.

+1

[Redfox]

QUOTE

I have or am in the process of changing all my bolt action rifles to Sako.

 

I got lucky I went there first, I have 5 Sakos, but only 2 Remingtons a 22-250 Vssf and a 17rem Vlsf both of which shoot perfectly well.

I have to question one of BBs assertions (" barrel and action rotate round the recoil lug") as the action has 2 bolts through the stock clamping it, any actual rotation would be minute and not repeated unless the stock bolts were left slack. One of the mods I know, is to replace the recoil lug with a machined one of much better material, which I fully support will improve things.

An area not given attention is the threading of receiver and barrel, using std 60deg threadform here is not likely to provide anything like the stability between barrel and action that you need. there are better threadforms that would allow a better more stable joint and yet Remington have missed this opportunity altogether, machining the lug into the action too, would just require a better class of workmanship and setup, but is definitely better than a loose lug and allows reference for the rest of the assembly, not rocket science.

The fact that Remington is headed the same way as Winchester, is sad but says it all ( sit on your brand name, do nothing, you will go out of business) I used to like Rems and everybody likes to tinker and bolt on goodies, but there wont be anymore coming to live here.

I may buy a Sako short action and build a 22-250 ( or AI ) round that with a nice barrel ( std Sako varmint barrels are not rubbish by the way) and a quality stock to replace the Remington, which as said is good for better than 1/2 moa now. but part of the pleasure of ownership is knowing you have the best compromise not merely a compromise.

Redfox

[ejg223]

Damit, and i was just planing on getting a lightweight remy made.

I'm just teaching my kids to work with composites , so we are in the process

of making a stock mold for a remy SA. Plan was to get something in 243

with a ultra light carbon hunting stock. We just borrowed a remy to measure

and rework the plug, for sure the 700 seems very mass produced and cheap compared

to my Sako 579.

This feeding problem is that more prone in certain calibres or

does it have something to do with magazin design? or is the floor plate version better?

Are older 700 actions better than newer ones?

 

regards

edi

[Bambi-basher]

QUOTE

I have to question one of BBs assertions (" barrel and action rotate round the recoil lug") as the action has 2 bolts through the stock clamping it, any actual rotation would be minute and not repeated unless the stock bolts were left slack. One of the mods I know, is to replace the recoil lug with a machined one of much better material, which I fully support will improve things.

An area not given attention is the threading of receiver and barrel, using std 60deg threadform here is not likely to provide anything like the stability between barrel and action that you need.

 

Hi Redfox

 

I am not sure if this is what you meant,(so if I am telling you how to suck eggs I apologise) but in a properly bedded rifle the sides of the action screws should not come into contact with the stock , once the action had rotated until this happens your accuracy would go to pot. Not sure if this is what you meant though.

 

The clamping effect of the action screws has been documented to be insufficient to prevent this rotation. The perceived wisdom is repeated firing of bullet weights of approximately 170gn and above will cause this effect. It is probably not helped by heat generated in long strings of shoots, the old technique of heating a seized bolt with a oxy/acetylene torch to loosen it is no doubt creating a similar effect.

 

As the barrel and action get hot it will expand (get longer) this will reduce the clamping effect of the barrel on the recoil lug. (My theory ) I would not think there above would matter much in a stalking rifle or even the average UK target rifle but we are looking to build your ultimate custom rifle here.

 

Oversized recoil lugs have been tried and again this does not help as the clamping effect of the barrel to the action is still the same.

 

I always baulk at the use of thread locking compounds I think there use is a comprise, a job of trying to make a bad job good. May be I am old fashioned.

 

All the best

 

B-b

[Guest Smeagle]

Again lads you are still talking about rudimentary points and things that should not even be a consideration on a modern rifle, how many other manufacturers have this issue, none.

 

As for the magazines, well the detachable mag is a nightmare so much so that they have to use a floorplate to get it to work and if you fancy chasing dangerous game this is not a good idea, the mags are poorly designed and constructed which is why Badger Ordinance and HS do such a good trade at a price. The floorplates are not much better, all or most have feeding problems. Also any rough handling or slightly vigorous chambering and the thing will not cock. This seems to be the fault with all calibres especially the long actions and the heavier the worse it is. Which is precisely where you do not need it. Okay after a rabbit its not a big deal but under charge from a Cape Buff when the juices are flowing you can be forgiven for a rapid bolt throw, its just then that the mag falls of and the rifle decides that it doesn't want to cock.

 

No mate, not for me and as for a custom job certainly not. To be honest I expected to be joining BB in the trench, but it seems that others have noticed as well, a worrying time methinks for Remington.

[ejg223]

thanks

might give that project a skip, will keep

going with the stock thing though. This was

the first real negativ thing i heard about the rem 700

and I've never owned one. I presume as a hunting

rifle project a howa action would be a better choice if

one is on a budget, or?

 

edi

[Bambi-basher]

To be honest I expected to be joining BB in the trench, but it seems that others have noticed as well, a worrying time methinks for Remington.

 

Hi Graham

 

Give them time, being 700 owners it takes a little while for them to catch up.

 

Seriously I did not think there is better time for a rifleman to be better informed with forums like this and others, the enlightenment this brings to rifle users will only make the plight for Remmington worse.

 

Now this rifle below looks really good and a alterative to the Sako. Smith and Weston have now brought the company so with their backing it could do really well especially in the states if the price is right.

 

http://www.rifleshootermag.com/featured_ri.../tcicon_051007/

 

 

B-b

[Bambi-basher]

thanks

might give that project a skip, will keep

going with the stock thing though. This was

the first real negativ thing i heard about the rem 700

and I've never owned one. I presume as a hunting

rifle project a howa action would be a better choice if

one is on a budget, or?

 

edi

 

Hi Edi

 

The Howa is a hybred copy, best of the old Sako L591 action and of Remmy 700, they are a few coming up secondhand now at the right price and being made in Japan you know you will have no problems.

 

Oh and it was my choice, it is were I put my money, I aslo know of a couple of other guys on here who have taken the same path.

 

B-b

[Tikka 260]

Hi all

 

Interesting stuff this, and something one NEVER hears about from all the scores of 'smiths doing lots of work and selling Remmy bits and bobs. Not being a Remmy owner or a fan of their rifles I guess I might not have heard anyway, but thanks for the dialogue. We live and learn for sure!

 

ATB

 

T260

[ejg223]

thanks b-b,

i had a couple of howas in my hands at the IWA and

quite liked them, but need to find out who sells em

here in Ireland. Finding a second hand one is another matter.

The market isn't as big here. All the composite stocks i saw at the

IWA didn't really impress me, thats why I'm tinkering around with

making my own and if they're ok possibly sell a couple.

My 308 Sako has the old L579 action so its not worth making

a mould for that one. My cz 223 only has a 1in 12 twist and i might

sell that at some stage. Then the calibre quetion comes up again.....

 

regards

edi

[Vermincinerator]

Yes they are not the best of designs but i dont think its a case of smiths pushing the Rem 700 rather the owners bringing in the most popular rifle made in the USA to be modified.

There must be 10s of millions of remington rifles in the US, so of course there is going to be an aftermarket parts industry spring up, the same could be said for what ever rifle is the most popular, you only need to look at S&W pistols and the Ruger 10/22, what a poor design that is!

Three lugs came in on Sako's with the Model 75 design and they are not quite a flat bottom reciever, earlier models i believe had 2 lugs and were round???

The main thing you must remember about Remington is that the rifles have been designed to be manufactured cheaply and easily by semi and non skilled labour on a huge scale (4 million rifles in 2006) and because of this simple non complicated design has to be utilised.

Complex machined shapes like the 75 lugs and the equivalent recess in the reciever need complex machining operations, this in turn needs more skilled labour, costs more and ultimately takes longer.

It all boils down to cost, and that is i am afraid where Remnigton is failing now, nothing to do with design just cheap economising by the penny pinchers.

 

Ian.

[Vermincinerator]

ejg223,

If you can put an early Rem 700 action (20, preferably 30 years old) in the hands of a competant smith he will deliver to you a superb shooter.

 

Ian.

[baldie]

Right, i,m gonna throw my two, pennorth in, and before i do, will declare that the shop i work for, is the sole distributor for remington actions in the UK, and we only sell to other smiths/rfd,s.

I dont agree with half of the points raised, and will try and put my views. Firstly, i,m building a .308 for myself. Money is virtually no object [within reason] mainly because i can get everything at trade. I could easily afford, and use any of the "top" actions, bat, stolle, barnard, stiller, whatever. I,m using a remmy, because even blueprinted, they are still HALF the price of any of the custom actions. 99 % of people do not have the skill, to extract the supposed much great accuracy potential of a custom action, and thats a fact not many will admit to, its a bit like admitting you have a small dick, or an ugly wife. Benchrest actions, jam in the field, with a small ingress of crap, and most are single shot too.

Recoil lugs. The ones we fit, are tubb/badger etc, and can be permanently pinned to the action.....not rocket science.The only reason people replace the standard one, is because its a stamped out part, and a custom lug is fatter, and surface ground, which is the important part. Every custom i build is bedded, both pillar and devcon, so i,ve never seen any evidence of twisting or whatever.

All aftermarket triggers, from the cheapest to the dearest, are made to fit a remington action, or trigger slot footprint.......quite simple really, look on any benchrest line in the states, and at least half, if not more, are remmy based guns, have been for a long, long time.

Extractors. Sako ones are usually fitted, when bolt faces have been opened out. Standard extractors work fine, on the bolt face they were designed for. Fitting of sako extractors, is an unscrupulous way, of screwing more money from a punter, when 9 times out of ten, they are not neccesary.

Yep, i like sako,s, i have a 75 thats just been rebarrelled in 6mmbr, and its very accurate, but no more accurate than any of the remmy,s we,ve built.Typically, shooting 1/2 moa at 100 yards, with some in the 3,s consistently. Seriously, how much more accurate do you need?

This is using border "archer" barrels.

Flat bottomed designs are better, purely from the point of view of bedding, and inletting, so the howa is an obvious winner, as its tolerances are a lot closer than a remmy, and you can buy a barrelled action, for around the same price as one of our blueprinted actions, but then you have to take the barrel off, and bin it.Also, good old brian fox,has just lost the howa agency, unfortunatly, its gone to a big firm called highlander, or something, who have also taken over a lot of other things, like sierra bullets, nikko sterling, etc from some of our major dealers/importers, so who knows whats going to happen to howa prices? one thing is for sure....they arent going to go down.

Smeagle is quite correct, remingtons are not what they were, neither are sako, tikka, steyr etc etc, funnily enough, sako barrels are one of the worst for being bored off centre.

I suppose you could say therefore, i,m biased, because we sell them, but i,m building my own based on one, and when its finished, it will go to one of the testers in the mags, for an unbiased evaluation, most likely, mr vince bottomley, in target sports, who we dont advertise with, so owe us nowt.

Lastly, we get a lot of customers who dont have a bottomless wallet, and we can realistically build them a fully blueprinted, border barrelled, custom triggered, fully bedded, and custom stocked rifle, for well under £2000, which will shoot just as well, as any custom actioned gun....IN THE HANDS OF YOUR AVERAGE SHOOTER. Why pay more? Personally, i think its Bb,s already mentioned "brag" factor, because these days, there is no kudos attatched to owning a remington, but i guarantee, the bulge in your pants, wont be your cock, it will be a large wedge of money saved.

Yep, i like remmy,s , and i also like howa,s too

[Ronin]

Well,

 

an interesting debate. I have spent quite some money on standard Rem 700's (always 2nd hand) and either shot them till they require a rebarrel or just sent them off to be blueprinted. I have yet to experience a problem with any of them, I can lie up in real shitty conditions waiting for deer and it don't matter what the weather throws, when it comes to chambering a round and sending a bullet to the intended target my rifles work every time.

 

Yes there are aftermarket parts available, but there are aftermarket parts available for most rifles (just look at the AR15 market for example)

 

They are cheap, the quality is not as good as they were ten years ago, but the same can be said of Tikka and I have to say SAKO as well in this respect - one only has to look back a year to see the horrendous problem Sako had with barrels to lose faith in that product. I wonder if any smiths on here could comment on how easy (or difficult) it is to true a Sako three lug action?

 

I have had Tikka 595 and 695's before and they are excellent, are the T3's as good,,,,not by a long shot.

 

Custom rifle on a budget yes I would use Rem again no probs over Howa (sorry just do not like them).

 

Custom rifle action without budget constraints - BAT would be my first choice, second, well any custom maker in no order of preference (LAwton, Stiller, Borden, RPA, Roedale, etc etc etc)

 

Yes the Rem is cheap, it is also cheap to blueprint and make very very accurate, as I have done in the past, my own 700 in 6.5x284 has come good over custom rifle worth double what I paid. I have a 25-06 that is almost as accuarte as the 284.

 

However, when (and if) I come to sell, it is still "only" a 700......

 

There's positive and negatives on both sides and well call me sentimental, but I just love em (modified that is)

[Bambi-basher]

Hi Ian

 

Three lugs came in on Sako's with the Model 75 design and they are not quite a flat bottom reciever, earlier models i believe had 2 lugs and were round???

 

The early ones I have seen have been flat bottomed with a integral recoil lug, and yes have two lugs on the bolt.

 

The main thing you must remember about Remington is that the rifles have been designed to be manufactured cheaply and easily by semi and non skilled labour on a huge scale (4 million rifles in 2006) and because of this simple non complicated design has to be utilised.

Complex machined shapes like the 75 lugs and the equivalent recess in the reciever need complex machining operations, this in turn needs more skilled labour, costs more and ultimately takes longer.

It all boils down to cost, and that is i am afraid where Remnigton is failing now, nothing to do with design just cheap economising by the penny pinchers.

 

Ian.

 

I think we both come from a engineering back ground and can see a component that has been designed to be cheap to manufacture a mile off. This of cause can lead to compromises in other areas.

 

B-b

[Guest A-max]

Remmington=YUK!!! sorry , but I just dont like them.

[Bambi-basher]

Hi Baldie

 

I do not mean to cause your company any financial losses by my post, it is just a point of view and instead of being a sheep and following the rest of the flock I am “thinking out of the box”.

 

The pinning of the recoil lug is a bit of a……………………………..to put politely a less than elegant solution, the end of the receiver were you drill and pin is what 4/5mm in thickness but also has its treads cut into it. What diameter is your pin? 2/3mm.

 

If the actions don’t rotate why is there a need to pin them?(other that to make assemble easier.) The US military found that with there rifles they did. Although to be fair not that many guys in the UK shoot a lot of heavy weight bullets one after another. Even target shooters like to let there barrels cool.

 

With regards to the extractors I agree with you, in my original post (below) you will see the word perceived.

 

QUOTE:-“The extractor is often replace by custom gunsmith with a Sako one as the Remmy one is perceived to be too fragile.”

 

If we say for example that a donor Sako rifle cost £500 more than a Remmy and because you would have to do less component changes to that rifle what would the end cost of a custom rifle be? Say only 10% more than a Remmy based custom. Then what price would one be with a Howa action? 10% less?

 

We are talking about building our dream custom rifle here, if you want a cheap rifle the reality is a standard one would do most you would ever need out side of the competition circle.

 

I would say most standard rifles would out shoot most guys in the field let alone a custom rifle and I do not dispute that a Remmington 700 can’t be made to shoot hence why I titled the post.

 

Remmington 700 Action, A triumph of relentless development over good basic

design?

All the best.

 

B-b

[Ronin]

If I were to choose an alternative choice for a "cheap" custom rifle donor.

 

Then my choice would be a Tikka 595 (short action) or 695 (long action).

 

We have in this design a flat base action, with aluminium recoil lug positioned by a large round lug, easilly bedded so the recoil lug rests in the bedding compound, the Tikka trigger as standard is easilly ajusted to 2 lbs and breaks like glass, the standard extractor is Sako style and very reliable.

 

Two lug bolt, so "easily" trued and faced and the face of the action can be squared "relatively" easily.

 

Aftermarket stocks can be made by Mcmillan on request.

 

The Tikka would be a VERY close second choice to a Rem 700 for my two pennath.

 

 

Lets not forget that Norman Clark based some serious long range rifles in .223Rem on a Tikka short action before fast twist barrels and overbore calibres became fashionable, he of all people should know a good base for a custom.

[Redfox]

To be fair I wasnt thinking of heavy bullets under rapid fire and the screws them selves dont heat up but a tiny amount of expansion of the action, might cause loss of tension but due to the growth in diameter I would expect that to more or less keep the staus quo. The screws may well have clearance round the shank but the heads are usually c/sunk so dont move in the stock, the clearance in the threads is minimal so I would not expect that to allow more than a thou or less rotation at most.

The barrel is another thing altogether ( wouldnt you have expected them to have thought on this aspect) as you know in threaded components, only the first three or so threads carry the full load after that the axial load on the threads diminishes rapidly. If you tighten more, the threads yield and the next 3 or so carry the load until the assembly strips completely, thats why I said there are more appropriate threadforms to use which greatly help to overcome this, then there is taper inletting etc.

Certainly precision riflemakers usually thread the action again and then fit the barrel threads to the action. You could also machine a narrow flat on the receiver base to ensure no rotation at all.

Baldies coments on sako barrels is interesting, they are hammer forged over mandrels, so if they turn / grind the profile afterwards there is no way they should not be concentric/ true in the barrel, or the threads. I can only think that Berretta messed with their prodction methods in some way.

The 3 lug bolt was first used by Sako in the TRG and TRGS long before the 75. Its ok but means more work and expense in manufacture for little or no gain on a sporting rifle, sniper and target riflea are chasing any gain possible and cost more to start with.

All good stuff and interesting.

Redfox

[baldie]

B-b, dont worry my friend, honest discussion will harm no one, we are all friends, and gentlemen here, and all entitled to an opinion. Encouraging thought, and questioning long held beliefs, is what encorages progress, and evolution.

I didnt realise we were talking hypothetically about a dream gun.

The hypothetical gun we build in the shop, is basically a collection of the owner,s and my thoughts, as average shooters, at club level, serving average shooters at club level, with moderatly limited resources. This is how the remmy based, custom came about for us. It supplies everything, your average club shot needs/can afford, and fills the gap admirably, between a std factory gun, and a full blown custom gun, from the likes of callum fergusson, steve bowers, norman clark etc. Obviously, those fella,s guns are going to be more accurate than ours, when they are using £1000- £1200 actions, but my point is, unless its for a benchrest gun, its a waste of money, unless the punter specifically wants that action, for pride of ownership, in which there is nothing wrong.

The money saved would be better spent on quality optics and, especially rails and rings. Times many, i,ve had to argue with punters who have had a £1500 gun made, then want to put a £30 rail, and cheap mounts on

I,ve had to have wry smile this week, as my mate Tim Finlay, was the only man to hit the egg at diggle, with a bog std actioned remmy pss in .308, putting a lot of wildcats to shame, and its not the first time either, he shot a 7" group at 1000 yards with it too, again beating a lot of specials costing thousands.Once you get past 300 yards, it matters not a bugger who built it, or what its action is, its the nut behind the butt, who can read the wind.

 

As regards standard rifles, i would say its a generally accepted fact, at least thats what novices are pointed towards at diggle, that the remmy pss is the best out of the box standard rifle for target work there is.I,ll be honest, i,ve never seen one that wouldn,t shoot, although we check, and if neccesary, clean/recrown some, especially .223,s for some reason, and sometimes the parkerisation fouls the crown. Incidentally, i got a std trigger down to a beautiful 1 3/4 lbs today, safely, the lowest i,ve managed to date, also got some of the new sps varmints in with the heavy barrel, and new trigger which look very promising, maybe in a better stock. all good fun.

[Bambi-basher]

Hi Baldie

 

Tim’s time spent shooting air rifles has obviously gave him a good grounding in reading the wind. The land lord of my local used to shoot at international level TR and F-class I think, and all he talks about is reading the wind or heat mirage, he shoots a .308 fast twist barrel with 210gn heads. Like you said it is the nut behind the butt.

 

Andy’s suggestion to use the old Tikka 595 action as a base is a good one, except for one thing since the T3 came out one body wants to part with there 595/695s I know mine is stopping were it is.

 

I am sure I read that callum fergusson charges £5,000 to £6,000 for a Remmy 700 based rifle, if that is true he must be putting a lot of work into that rifle to get it shoot straight.

 

What do you think of the new Icon rifle in the link?

 

So how much money are we going to save by using a Remmy 700 action over a Sako/Tikka or a Howa at the end of a custom build?

 

ATB

 

B-b

[Guest Smeagle]

Lads again you are missing the point, how many lads on a budget or sporting lads build a custom rifle, not many. Most shooters buy the rifle and shoot straight out of the box. Or are supposed to be able to do so, especially if you are buying the higher end product. And a lot of the time it is not how they shoot because most will shoot as well as the average shooter with factory fodder, but how they operate. Sorry but the Remington's come up short on nearly all accounts. That is the problem, now I am not an engineer nor do I sell rifles except my own when I have finished with them, I am merely a shooter and it seems strange to me and no insult intended, but those that have to shoot the bloody things are the ones complaining about them. Which to my mind is a real shame as they used to be one of the finest rifles on the market at that time. Now you can talk about engineering and semantics all you like, most couldn't give a rats cuss they just want the thing to work.

 

Why are they the basis of so many custom rifles or semi custom rifles, again they don't start that way. Like you said Baildie after you have done this and that and changed this out you have a half decent rifle which is cheap. Your argument that they are only so accurate after you have done all these all be it minor adjustments honestly doesn't hold water because simply put most other rifles are this accurate without any fiddling whatsoever. So basically if you want a rifle for sporting purposes that you don't have to do anything to then Remington is not the choice. So if you want a rifle that is reliable and the mags wont fall off Remington is not the choice. If you want to build a full custom rifle Remington is not the choice. If you want a semi custom on a budget then Remington is not the choice. Again it comes back to this for what you are paying for these things there are so many other choices which are infinitely superior.

 

Even the best rifles that they make the 40 XB, how does that stack up not very well, for the money you can get a HS Precision, so basically every class they are out classed. When I spoke to the importer about this his answer was this, well we are a low priority and they keep all the best stuff for the US market. Well sorry but if my money isn't good enough and you think you can send me second grade kit the you can keep it, I will like so many others go elsewhere.

[Bambi-basher]

So to conclude Graham, floored from a hypothetical design view point, not up to the grade from a user view point (well at least as a repeater). The only people defending them are the Gumsmiths who build them and the people the smiths sold them to.

 

Hummmmmm

 

 

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