22-250 popularity.....

[Offroad Gary]

I've just started foxing with one after a few years break (from the 22-250, not foxing) and I was browsing mcleod s rifle list the other day, Gregor has hardly any in stock compared to .243. Is the calibre loosing popularity with foxers/Scottish roe stalkers?

 

Who here still uses one, what for and what you pushing through it?

 

I'm pushing 40gn vmax, not too fast, and loving it again. My old 22-250 (tooley built), shoved 55gn pills at 2850 and was awesome, the one rifle I regret letting go.

[Akeld]

Mine is my main rifle, use it every day for vermin and fox, also use it for roe.

 

53g Vmax 3700

69g SMK 3280

 

Working on a 75g Amax load, could never get it working with 40g bullets with the last barrel

[DW58]

Interesting you should say that - 25 years ago here in NE Jockistan, no self-respecting Vulpine-enthusiast would have been without his .22-250 boomstick, but popularity does seem to have dropped considerably.

 

My son and I were at MacLeod's yesterday to collect my new .300 WSM T3 and other bits and bobs and I was discussing calibres with Gregor. It's interesting how patterns change, during the late eighties/early nineties there was a massive swing to the .25-06 rifle among Ross-shire and Sutherland stalkers, this continued for quite some time, but apparently this has now subsided and many have now returned to .270 with the advent of the moderator and thus reduced recoil/noise.

 

Apparently .223 & .243 seem more popular up here these days - I guess if anyone knows Gregor does, he'd just taken in a sizeable Tikka delivery yesterday and apart from my .300 WSM and a 7mm Rem Mag on order for another client, most were .270s with fluted barrels.

 

How times change ... ... ... personally I've never liked the .22-250, but if that's what floats your boat, or is it slots your fox?

[gbal]

Gary,the 22/250 is a very fine 22 cf. Back 30 years ago,in the Borders,it was the step up from the 222 class. It faces stiff competition these days from the likes of 22BR,and the PPCs,especially as there just seem more custom rifles around.Or even ('hot') light /heavy bullet 223 options.

The 'liberalisation' of licencing (i.e. the old restriction to 22cf only,and on moderators) has also contributed-and with newer 55g 6mm bullets the 243 will add 200fps to the 22/250 (3650 up to 3850,in commercial ammo).The 243 has considerably more flexibilty too,including heavy bullets.Perhaps all these have contributed to the 22/250 slipping from it's once pole position.But it still does what it always did very well.

gbal

[dorg]

I have played with all calibres for foxing, my findings were, having moved to nightvision, 6mmbr much too lobby, 22br very fussy on magazines even with a ppc mag. 223 not enough power if shot slightly miss placed, 243 to much recoil for expensive tubed nv. So back to the good old 22/250 if ever there was a round shaped to feed, speeds around 3600fps , recoil with a moderator, does not even lose sight picture with you eye wedged in the back of a nv scope.

I am trying to shoot out a £500 secondhand factory Sako hunter at the minute but after 1500 rounds she still shoot 1 inch groups at 200yds with a 6x nightsight.

[gbal]

I have played with all calibres for foxing, my findings were, having moved to nightvision, 6mmbr much too lobby, 22br very fussy on magazines even with a ppc mag. 223 not enough power if shot slightly miss placed, 243 to much recoil for expensive tubed nv. So back to the good old 22/250 if ever there was a round shaped to feed, speeds around 3600fps , recoil with a moderator, does not even lose sight picture with you eye wedged in the back of a nv scope.

I am trying to shoot out a £500 secondhand factory Sako hunter at the minute but after 1500 rounds she still shoot 1 inch groups at 200yds with a 6x nightsight.

 

Good points-NV recoil vulnerability wasn't much of an option then.Not sure about 6BR being 'lobby'-if that refers to trajectory,but ggod to know the 22/250 still does it-there were an lot of foxes shot-by moonlight?-with a 222 back then.

 

And that a good old Sako still takes an awful lot of beating,for an awful lot more money-seems like I'll have mine forever!

 

gbal

[Gandy]

Someone was saying exactly the same about the .204 the other day, his thoughts were .20 tac / prac had raced ahead.

[gbal]

There really isn't much in it between the 20s: the 204 will go above 4000fps with 32g,below with 40g;20 tactical is about the same;as is 20PPC,though the 20BR (and 20-250) will pip all of these.But we're talking about a 200fps envelope- around 4000fps,pretty nippy all round.

It's hard to see that there will be much applied varmint differences-bullets/velocities are essentially the same. It's just possible custom actions might load a bit hotter,for them all,but that doesn't change the varmint application much; (if 3900fps won't do it,neither will 4050fps !)

 

There may be other reasons than simple ballistics,of course...(cf 244/243;7x57/7-08 etc)

 

gbal

[247sniper]

I think also that with the modern .20 cals, same trajectory and windage values as .22-250, with approx 40% less powder give or take a little subject to powder type and bullet choice etc. Also less muzzle blast and no recoil.

 

 

This may be some resaons why the .22-250 is not a popular as it maybe once was. Then off course you have the usual .222/.223 to think about as well.

 

Steve.

[Gandy]

There really isn't much in it between the 20s: the 204 will go above 4000fps with 32g,below with 40g;20 tactical is about the same;as is 20PPC,though the 20BR (and 20-250) will pip all of these.But we're talking about a 200fps envelope- around 4000fps,pretty nippy all round.

It's hard to see that there will be much applied varmint differences-bullets/velocities are essentially the same. It's just possible custom actions might load a bit hotter,for them all,but that doesn't change the varmint application much; (if 3900fps won't do it,neither will 4050fps !)

There may be other reasons than simple ballistics,of course...(cf 244/243;7x57/7-08 etc)

gbal

Agreed it was more of a trend thing as he included consumables.

[happyhunter]

My main foxing rifle is a t3 in .22/250, would I part with it no chance...

Once the barrel is past it's best it will be rebarreled to the same spec.

55grn v-max @ 3750fps is a superb fox stopper no matter what angle the fox presents itself.

I use a t3 in .223 with 50grn v-max @ 3350fps alongside nv also a good fox stopper if I had to pick between the two I'd take the .22/250 every time, packs one hell of a punch.

[gbal]

My main foxing rifle is a t3 in .22/250, would I part with it no chance...

Once the barrel is past it's best it will be rebarreled to the same spec.

55grn v-max @ 3750fps is a superb fox stopper no matter what angle the fox presents itself.

I use a t3 in .223 with 50grn v-max @ 3350fps alongside nv also a good fox stopper if I had to pick between the two I'd take the .22/250 every time, packs one hell of a punch.

 

Yes,ball park energy at 100y for your 223 and 22/250 loads are 940 and 1400 ft lb...Quite a lot more...

[Offroad Gary]

Just got back from a few hours tweaking/testing, 41gn h380 gives 3700fps on the 40gn load, shoots sub half inch 3 shot groups at 100m, i shot 4 groups, set 1" high at 100m allows me to spin a 4" gong at 225m by aiming at the centre of it. Thats with a zeiss 7x50 scope. Spot the hits too! Good enough for the night shift me thinks!

[gbal]

Just got back from a few hours tweaking/testing, 41gn h380 gives 3700fps on the 40gn load, shoots sub half inch 3 shot groups at 100m, i shot 4 groups, set 1" high at 100m allows me to spin a 4" gong at 225m by aiming at the centre of it. Thats with a zeiss 7x50 scope. Spot the hits too! Good enough for the night shift me thinks!

Note Gary doesn't claim 1 1/4 inch gongs at 225. Quite correct (see Litz etc).

 

Gary,what time do the gongs come out,at this time of year,down your way? :-)

[british bulldog]

Don't you think the reason there was none on the SH rack is that people are happy with them and not selling them? I've owned .204, .223 and 22/250 and used .222 and .17 Rem, but the rifle I've used for foxing for the last 5 years is a Remington VSSF .22/250 pushing 50gr Vmax at 3850fsp. The cartridge just works, it feeds like a dream and thumps foxes ( Gandy will agree with that as he's seen the said gun in action).

The 40% more powder per shot argument, which works out at most 10p per shot, well the day I start worrying about 10p extra a shot on a foxing rifle is the day to give up shooting.

BB

[Offroad Gary]

The gongs almost spent the night in the field, i picked up the paper targets but forgot the gongs! Had to

Go back for them. The 40gn pills dont spin the 8" gong though, hardly move it, good demonstration of down range energy compared to my 6.5 shooting 120gn pills.

[gbal]

The gongs almost spent the night in the field, i picked up the paper targets but forgot the gongs! Had to

Go back for them. The 40gn pills dont spin the 8" gong though, hardly move it, good demonstration of down range energy compared to my 6.5 shooting 120gn pills.

 

Classic 'nearly dropped a clanger' lapse. :-)

 

40@ 3700 200y energy around 680 ft lb

 

(6.5) 120 @ 2950 " " 1680 ft lb

[gbal]

Don't you think the reason there was none on the SH rack is that people are happy with them and not selling them? I've owned .204, .223 and 22/250 and used .222 and .17 Rem, but the rifle I've used for foxing for the last 5 years is a Remington VSSF .22/250 pushing 50gr Vmax at 3850fsp. The cartridge just works, it feeds like a dream and thumps foxes ( Gandy will agree with that as he's seen the said gun in action).

The 40% more powder per shot argument, which works out at most 10p per shot, well the day I start worrying about 10p extra a shot on a foxing rifle is the day to give up shooting.

BB

BB,that is a possible factor.

We could look at the dealers stocks of new rifles for sale....but if thee re few 22/250s that could be because they sell so quickly....(?)

 

Here are RCBS sales ranks for reloading dies (yes,its USA but indicates something about comparabe use -varmint- cartridges.These are the 2012 figures (2005 places in brackets),best sellers first from 1 to 10:

 

223 (3)

308 (4)

3006 (2)

243 (5)

270(8)

300WM (30 WSM 11)

22/250 (6)

7Rem mag

30/30 (20)

25-06(16)

 

While there are some changes ( mostly in non-UK contenders), it rather looks as if in varmint class,223 is steadily ahead of 22/250;and purchase is not the same as use-though varminters tend to home load....

 

Popularity,of course,is not the same as quality of performance.

I'd keep your 22/250.

gbal

[gbal]

SORRY DOUBLE POST

BB,that is a possible factor.

We could look at the dealers stocks of new rifles for sale....but if there are few 22/250s that could be because they sell so quickly....(?)

Here are RCBS sales ranks for reloading dies (yes,its USA but indicates something about comparabe use -varmint- cartridges.These are the 2012 figures (2005 places in brackets),best sellers first from 1 to 10:

223 (3)

308 (4)

3006 (2)

243 (5)

270(8)

300WM (30 WSM 11)

22/250 (6)

7Rem mag

30/30 (20)

25-06(16)

While there are some changes ( mostly in non-UK contenders), it rather looks as if in varmint class,223 is steadily ahead of 22/250;and purchase is not the same as use-though varminters tend to home load....

Popularity,of course,is not the same as quality of performance.

 

I'd keep your 22/250.

gbal

[abolter]

I have always had a 22/250 for foxes and still run one. Mine is getting almost 4100 fps with 50 grain Vmax. It is certainly a bit hot but it was the best group.

 

I also shoot a 5/35SMc with 32gr at 4600fps on my NV setup.

 

Happily swap between one and the other. Prefer 22/250 on stubbles and wispy grass fields

[Akeld]

 

 

I also shoot a 5/35SMc with 32gr at 4600fps on my NV setup.

 

 

Just had to google that, looks an interesting round

[CZ Varminter]

My main foxing rifle is a t3 in .22/250, would I part with it no chance...

Once the barrel is past it's best it will be rebarreled to the same spec.

55grn v-max @ 3750fps is a superb fox stopper no matter what angle the fox presents itself.

I use a t3 in .223 with 50grn v-max @ 3350fps alongside nv also a good fox stopper if I had to pick between the two I'd take the .22/250 every time, packs one hell of a punch.

Yup too bloody right Simon. I love my 22-250 with my SBK 55gr's they do guesstimated 3650fps and it's bowls Charlie over. It's now my dedicated NV rig. Shot a few .223 not so keen. I'll never change. Father in law has a twenty plus year old ruger in 22-250 shoots sub half inch after at least 1700rounds through it!!! Only ever been cleaned out with a bit of wd40 on a pull through. GASP GASP ... I hear.... Ah well.

[gbal]

Just had to google that, looks an interesting round

5/35 SMc (Smally and McPherson developed this ultra fast cartridge,its a 20 wildcat from the (6) BR case.)

[Chris-NZ]

What brought the issue of .22-250 (relative) performance to light was being out shooting with my gunsmith a few months back. I took my most accurate .223 and he had his old Rem 40X in .22-250 which is still a tackdriver. The thing that struck me was how badly the 250 drifted- it wasn't dramatically different to the .223 at 350-450yds which was about as far as we shot across the 8-12mph wind that day. Sure, it was better but still basically hopeless compared to what I expect from my 6, and 6.5x47Ls. For the amount of powder it burns, you're not gaining a lot in wind resistance compared to a .223.

 

An interesting comparison is between a 6BR and a .22-250. Run the numbers and it's a no-brainer. The BR for such a p!ssy little case performs way out of proportion to its size. That's why there is a Sako action and HBR stock sitting in his workshop as I type My son is chomping at the bit for him to do the work.

 

BTW, I'm not a .22-250 hater. Once owned one

[6.5Grendel]

BB,that is a possible factor.

We could look at the dealers stocks of new rifles for sale....but if thee re few 22/250s that could be because they sell so quickly....(?)

 

Here are RCBS sales ranks for reloading dies (yes,its USA but indicates something about comparabe use -varmint- cartridges.These are the 2012 figures (2005 places in brackets),best sellers first from 1 to 10:

 

223 (3)

308 (4)

3006 (2)

243 (5)

270(8)

300WM (30 WSM 11)

22/250 (6)

7Rem mag

30/30 (20)

25-06(16)

 

While there are some changes ( mostly in non-UK contenders), it rather looks as if in varmint class,223 is steadily ahead of 22/250;and purchase is not the same as use-though varminters tend to home load....

 

Popularity,of course,is not the same as quality of performance.

I'd keep your 22/250.

gbal

Do you know what was no 1 in 2005 but doesn't make top ten in 2012 ? Or have I missed something?