1000-1200 yard loads

[Elwood]

Next month I'm shooting at Bisely and doing the 1000-1200 range for the first time.( insert gulp smiley)

So here's a few questions for all you long range guru's, yes I'm looking at you Baldie and Ronin

 

What I would like to know is, will my current load of 168 Amax at 2770 fps going to get me out to 1200 yards? that is pretty much a max load according to quickload although I know quickload isn't always correct.

Or would I be better switching to 155 grain bullets? the only problem is the last two 155 grain loads I used the TRG hated, both loads were Scenar's, one factory and one I loaded myself with N140.

Is there a particular powder for 155's and would VLD's be recommended over normal match bullets, I'm guessing due to the wind bucking abilities of the VLD's the answer would be yes.

 

Ian

[Guest varmartin]

Hi Ian..

 

Your 168 Amax will retain 1249 fps at 1000 yards,,,,,1092 at 1200 yards.

 

Your 155 scenar even at the same velocity will retain 1314 fps at 1000 yards,,,,,,1145 at 1200 yards

 

Depends which bullet your rifle prefers ??

 

With your twist rate of 1~11 I expect the heavier bullets will preform better..

 

Im sure Silent can add to this info as he shoots a lot of the 30`s.

[Elwood]

Thanks for that Martin.

 

I have only played at reloading the 155's, so it could very possibly be not finding the right combination.

 

I have just looked into the BC's of Berger/Hornady and Lapua bullets in 168 grain and 155 grain, the Berger 168 VLD has a BC of 512 but interestingly the lapua 155 scenar is 508 which isn't really losing out much.

 

Ian

[Guest varmartin]

Looking closely at any bullets ballistics and there are a lot of interesting things going on .

 

The 155 scenars are very good if your rifle likes them.

 

It don`t matter what weight they are...its all about velocity and BC.

[Ronin]

Hi Ian..

 

Your 168 Amax will retain 1249 fps at 1000 yards,,,,,1092 at 1200 yards.

 

Your 155 scenar even at the same velocity will retain 1314 fps at 1000 yards,,,,,,1145 at 1200 yards

 

Depends which bullet your rifle prefers ??

 

With your twist rate of 1~11 I expect the heavier bullets will preform better..

 

Im sure Silent can add to this info as he shoots a lot of the 30`s.

 

 

Speed of sound - 1130fps

 

 

Any bullet that is travelling close to or passing through the sound barrier will be subjected to pressure waves associated with the sonic boom.

 

This causes the bullet to destabilise = inaccuracy and limited predictability.

As an aside from this you'll have the wind to contend with and at that distance any wind is a problem.

 

 

For me, the A Max's are going too slow for 1200 and appraoching the majic number at 1000 - you may get away with them at 1K not at 1200.

 

If you can push the A max faster and retain accuracy go for it as your rifle likes them.

 

Personally, I would try a different bullet, persist with the 155 Scenars, they are sweet if travelling circa 2950fps (46.5g Vit 140 - PLEASE WORK UP TO THAT IF YOU USE IT)

 

I found in my AW that powder choice was the factor in accuracy - the barrel was a 1-12" twist (I think the same as the TRG?)

 

155's should stabilise in 1-11 not sure about 1-10 if the TRG has faster twist.

 

Berger 155 VLD's would be my other choice.

 

I am affraidf that I think 1200 is a tall order for anything heavier in a 308 - I do stand to be corrected though as there are others on here with more experience than me in this calibre

[shrek]

Im goin to keep a very close eye on this topic, sounds interesting keep the info comin lads! and what barrel lengths are you guys shootin?

[baldie]

You are really pushing the calibre at 1200 yards buddy. What you are lacking...is barrel length. If i was thinking about a 1200 yard .308 it would have a 32" tube for starters.

You are gonna have to work on a load. Get some 155 scenars, and certainly some berger vld,s of a similar weight.Forget the vhit 140...its not gonna get you there, and get a tub of vv 540, you should be able to get that little bit more from it, and drop the pressures a bit too. Maybe someone could run it through quickload, and pop it up please?

[Elwood]

Cartridge : .308 Win.

Bullet : .308, 155, Lapua Scenar GB491

Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.929 inch or 74.40 mm

Barrel Length : 26.0 inch or 660.4 mm

Powder : Vihtavuori N540

 

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,

incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.

CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

 

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time

% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

 

-20.0 77 36.80 2193 1655 26177 5182 89.3 1.659

-18.0 78 37.72 2244 1732 27765 5344 90.4 1.620

-16.0 80 38.64 2294 1812 29447 5503 91.4 1.583

-14.0 82 39.56 2345 1893 31231 5657 92.4 1.546

-12.0 84 40.48 2396 1976 33121 5808 93.3 1.510

-10.0 86 41.40 2447 2060 35125 5955 94.2 1.479

-08.0 88 42.32 2497 2146 37249 6096 95.0 1.441

-06.0 90 43.24 2547 2234 39502 6232 95.8 1.402

-04.0 92 44.16 2598 2323 41892 6363 96.5 1.365

-02.0 94 45.08 2648 2413 44429 6487 97.1 1.330

+00.0 96 46.00 2698 2505 47122 6606 97.7 1.295

+02.0 98 46.92 2748 2599 49984 6717 98.2 1.262

+04.0 100 47.84 2798 2694 53026 6821 98.7 1.230 ! Near Maximum !

+06.0 101 48.76 2847 2790 56264 6917 99.1 1.199 ! Near Maximum !

+08.0 103 49.68 2896 2887 59712 7006 99.4 1.168 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

+10.0 105 50.60 2945 2986 63387 7086 99.6 1.139 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

 

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge

Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:

+Ba 96 46.00 2815 2727 55264 6548 99.9 1.210 ! Near Maximum !

Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:

-Ba 96 46.00 2544 2228 39235 6382 91.9 1.405

[Elwood]

It looks like RL 15 will get me to the magical 2900 fps

 

Cartridge : .308 Win.

Bullet : .308, 155, Lapua Scenar GB491

Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.810 inch or 71.37 mm

Barrel Length : 26.0 inch or 660.4 mm

Powder : Alliant Reloder-15

 

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time

% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

 

02.0 99 45.08 2817 2731 51032 6959 97.7 1.242

00.0 101 46.00 2871 2838 54382 7067 98.2 1.208 ! Near Maximum !

02.0 103 46.92 2926 2946 57963 7165 98.7 1.175 ! Near Maximum !

04.0 105 47.84 2980 3055 61794 7254 99.1 1.144 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

06.0 107 48.76 3033 3166 65896 7332 99.4 1.114 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

08.0 109 49.68 3087 3279 70295 7399 99.7 1.084 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

10.0 111 50.60 3140 3392 75016 7454 99.9 1.056 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

[baldie]

Yep, but watch it, reloder 15 rapidly pressure spikes, and use a br primer. I,m really surprised the vv540 doesnt [on paper] do it. I use rel 15 and 168 a-max myself, and its good, but i dont use it past 600 yards, and its only a 20" barrel.

[Guest northernchris]

The Sako TRG i am loading for runs 46.5gr of N140 behind a 155gr Scenar in Lapua brass Hits 2900 fps with SINGLE figure deviation.Accuracy wise lets just say its on the money.

[Elwood]

The Sako TRG i am loading for runs 46.5gr of N140 behind a 155gr Scenar in Lapua brass Hits 2900 fps with SINGLE figure deviation.Accuracy wise lets just say its on the money.

 

Thanks Chris, I'm stocked up on both N140 and RL15, what is your measurment to ogive and which primers ? I have just run your load through Quickload and it's pretty close to hitting the 2900 fps, 2874 in fact, so well worth a look.

[silentsoulsleave308holes]

believe it or not but my load for my 7.62/308 is a clone for radway green target

 

my barrel is only 24" and I only send them at 2650 (a friend has the same rifle and shoots the exact same load that I gave him)

 

the gun regularly shoots sub 1/4moa and is a real winner at a 1k (ask others from the cornwall veg slayers asc)

 

bullet drops out around 920 and still shoots like a house on fire at past 1k

[Guest varmartin]

I thought I would post my load for my 7.62 hear as it may be of interest to those following this thread.

 

Lapua brass

CCI BR2 primer

155 Scenar

44 grains Varget

COL 2.810.

Velocity from a 28 inch tube was 2700 fps.

 

In my Lapua cases the bullet sits directly on top of the powder column in virgin brass.

 

Quickload and other software predicts this to be a 100% fill with 98 ish % burn.

 

I will measure some fired cases and post readings , but don`t expect much change as I am expecting the rifle to have a tight chamber.

 

Not tried this load past 200 yards yet, but at 200 it produced a 0.4 inch group.

[OSOK]

Hi Elwood , A couple of things that i don't think anyone has spoke of would be to make sure you have enough elevation in your scope which i guess would be approx 50 MOA at 1200 yards and also pray for a calm day !

At a recent F class training weekend the wind was around 20 mph and this meant 21 MOA of windage at only a 1000 yards for the FTR guy's with their 308's . I don't think any 308 would of coped at 1200 yards in the same conditions .

Good luck ,

 

Regards

 

OSOK