Lever Release UK

[hunter87]

Apparently from the comments left on the video you can get shots off alot faster than shown in the video
VZ58 MARS Rifle from Caledonian Classic Arms UK:

 

[Tiff]

So it's real

Has anyone shot one, if so which direction does the case eject? To me it looks like mounting a reasonable size scope could be a problem, or is it just the camera angle?

[John MH]

Not shot one but by all accounts they eject pretty much vertically so a scope on an extended eye relief mount may cause a couple of problems; firstly the scope will be hammered by the ejecting brass and secondly the brass will be potentially knocked back into the action.

[walkabout]

I shot the 9mm Southern Gun Company lever release last Saturday.

It had a scope on and was no problem at all, very quick, in fact as quick as a semi auto once you got used to it.

I believe it's in .233 as well.

[brown dog]

The VZ: I simply can't get my head around why the command 'ready!' won't have half the users firing a shot.

 

Imagine a 'make safe' with a trigger pull controlling both bolt and BANG!

[rimmie]

Very cool, but bloody ugly !!

[terryh]

Personally after the 'this is fun' has worn off, unless you really want one, not sure what I'd use it for, not as if it will shoot 'straight'

 

Also the same function for both closing the bolt and firing, this does have a significant question mark hanging over it, OK if it's just being shot on the range, but lined up in any shoulder to shoulder type shoot you'd have to keep looking at the gun to check where you were in the cycle - or have I missed something fundamental here?

 

Terry

 

ps t'is f'ugly

[gbal]

Personally after the 'this is fun' has worn off, unless you really want one, not sure what I'd use it for, not as if it will shoot 'straight'

 

Also the same function for both closing the bolt and firing, this does have a significant question mark hanging over it, OK if it's just being shot on the range, but lined up in any shoulder to shoulder type shoot you'd have to keep looking at the gun to check where you were in the cycle - or have I missed something fundamental here?

 

Terry

 

ps t'is f'ugly

Spot on Terry,and scope hostile and inaccurate....

It promises to take 'pray and spray' to a new level of 'sophistication':

 

'clatter and curse'

 

Gbal

[hunter87]

It is ugly as sin it looks from the video to eject to the right at a 45° angle. I think some of you are missing the big picture! If this is now a uk legal operating system then just think of the possabilities for firearms platforms such as the AR.

I remember comments on a previous thread in which people were saying there is no way you could make a gun work like that from a mechanical point of view well its been done.

I think we should look at this as a step forward here in the uk especially with are stupid gun laws.

 

Here are some optics mounting options

 

[newsatten]

Southern Gun now showing a 223 Speedmaster on their new web page, no price as yet,

[bradders]

Southern Gun now showing a 223 Speedmaster on their new web page, no price as yet,

 

Which is ironic given the fact that I've heard he's made his hundred now and isn't making any more.

But I hear so many rumours and counter rumours I don't know who to believe.

There again, I really don't care much either

[hunter87]

Wonder if this new uk legal operating system will eventually become more popular in time.

Its just great to see a company in the uk build something different for a change rather than just firing out "custom" straight pulls like every other builder out there

[NoEntry]

The VZ: I simply can't get my head around why the command 'ready!' won't have half the users firing a shot.

 

Imagine a 'make safe' with a trigger pull controlling both bolt and BANG!

 

I am told the first pull, to cock the system, is really heavy and long and the whereas the second pull to fire is nice and crisp.Apparently it would be difficult to confuse the two.......that's what I am told anyway :-)

 

Mike

[hunter87]

I am told the first pull, to cock the system, is really heavy and long and the whereas the second pull to fire is nice and crisp.Apparently it would be difficult to confuse the two.......that's what I am told anyway :-)

Mike

Also just change the words of command to you may load and fire when ready

[brown dog]

I am told the first pull, to cock the system, is really heavy and long and the whereas the second pull to fire is nice and crisp.Apparently it would be difficult to confuse the two....

 

Difficult to confuse because whenever the expected long heavy pull turns out to be a short and light pull, it ends in a BANG! ?

[hunter87]

Difficult to confuse because whenever the expected long heavy pull turns out to be a short and light pull, it ends in a BANG! ?

PEOPLE FEAR WHAT THEY DONT UNDERSTAND

[tackb]

PEOPLE FEAR WHAT THEY DONT UNDERSTAND

 

I'm with BD on this , I understand that being shot is really going to ruin your day so I fear anything that will increase the likelihood of it happening......

[gbal]

I'm beginning to get discombobulated on this.Help!

 

The VZ 58 seems to load by inserting a magazine-probably with the bolt held open?-then the first trigger pull released the bolt into battery,and a second pull of the trigger fires the chambered round,the bolt locking back open,so that another trigger pull releases it,and pulling trigger then fires,and repeat.It might be possible to load magazine from a closed bolt,then cock it,then we are into the above.

The SGC lever release system seems to be similar-load a magazine,close the bolt by depressing a lever on the left of receiver,probably with right thumb,bolt close,pull trigger to fire,bolt recoils and is retained until trigger release is pushed down,action closes,trigger pull fires..and repeat .(and similar magazine point-if loadable with bolt shut,the bolt will have to be manually pulled back first time,then t lever release,trigger to fire...)

How is this fundamentally different from self loading mechanisms in SAFETY terms? With a mag in place(or not) you could not tell if a semi was loaded(live round chambered),but the bolt being in closed in battery made the presumption that it was, mandatory-but you had to look to see bolt position. For that matter,is not the bolt action rather similar-if bolt is closed...you just don't know if a trigger pull will fire the rifle. (I would imagine all rifles could have a secondary safety fitted,so that isn't central here)

What am I missing?I am 100% with safety (any firearm increases risk of ND,but we don't want zero possession!) My prejudice is that some military rifles are a bit more prone to bring out poor rifle safety in inexperienced shooters,but there is thankfully little real evidence.I don't much like AK clones aesthetically,or i terms of their image,though that is less so for AR15 clones,and that isn't easily explained-except that they shoot far more accurately (though probably not in ND mode).I would certainly consider one-either straight pull,or lever release,probably the latter having used an Aug.(I know,heavy pull etc).

I must be missing something,since sensible members are suggesting intrinsic design safety issues,by implication beyond semis,as was,or current straight pull man ops.I don't speak mil fluently enough,not being a member.

Price and so on (aesthetics) are quite separate issues,as is a certain curious-to me-attitude on some aspects of new designs-almost ad hominem.Surely not on here!I'd have thought legality too was a bit close to the spirit of the law,and maybe even the letter,on trigger pull operation,but they exist,seem to be used?

Maybe I've shot myself in the foot,already,but a clear description of the operation of these rifles might help,emphasising any concerns.( you tube so far is err....limited!)Thanks.

Gbal

[tackb]

closing the bolt with the trigger then a second pull to fire it in my opinion is not a great way to operate , the trigger should do one thing and one thing only , fire the weapon.

[bradders]

From what I remember about Scotts Vz, I can't recall any perceptible difference in trigger pull between the bolt closing pull and the firing pull.

Perhaps Hunter87 can tell us more as it looks like he's convinced himself and talked himself into buying one :-)

 

Now, I've met Scott and he's a decent guy and I have nothing intrinsically bad to say about his offering (and never have). If you want it, good.

Go and buy it and hopefully it will get more people out shooting.

That's what this is all about, isn't it?

Well I thought it was until I saw the piss poor response to the CSR threads and then realised that the majority of shooters aren't really shooters per se, but more like barrel and stock rubbers.

 

Anyway, lots of people post on forums "I wonder if this (Vz58) or that (SGC) will be legal for CSR etc".

And do you know what? Not one of those people has ever contacted an organiser to ask (of course they're legal) , but they wouldn't turn up anyway.

Mostly because they have their own club to go to where they can use these things to go blam blam blam blam, which is alright, coz shooting really fast is dead important

 

As to the Vz, when the bolt cycles back it leaves a huge gaping cavity (as the bolt is also the top cover) so you can see straight into the chamber area and see the gun is clear, so there's no mistaking when it's loaded and when it isn't.

The only thing about that that realy concerns me is if you're standing in the rain (ermmm forget that, we only shoot in the rain in CSR and not club plonking) your boolettts are gonna get wet, or if it's cold and you get a twitchy finger (like when you uncontrollably kick out while taking a penalty kick in your sleep.

 

 

I have not mentioned the SGC one though, and nor will I

[brown dog]

Unless punters have the gift of prescience this 'different pulls' concept is bit 'Roger' (as in Roger Irrelevant) and bogus.

 

In my experience, normal mortals can only describe a trigger pull after it has been pulled - not before.

 

I'm also struck by the confusion of terminology here where preople are interchangeably using the terms 'load' and 'ready' - if people don't understand the difference, I suppose the trigger thing is irrelevant anyway.

[gbal]

Unless punters have the gift of prescience this 'different pulls' concept is bit 'Roger' (as in Roger Irrelevant) and bogus.

 

 

 

 

In my experience, normal mortals can only describe a trigger pull after it has been pulled - not before.

 

I'm also struck by the confusion of terminology here where preople are interchangeably using the terms 'load' and 'ready' - if people don't understand the difference, I suppose the trigger thing is irrelevant anyway.

Matt,why not slip into education mode,and share this semantic information with those who are not familiar with 'your' usage,then any more substantial discussion might progress with fewer misunderstandings.

 

I have been shooting for over 50 years and could not be sure of their meaning,and don''t think I've heard them used-I could suggest some possible interpretations..in track athletics there is "Ready,steady,..go"...but why not just simply make 'your' useage clear for everyone-and what is the "go" word? I don't suppose military useage ever included the order "put your bolts in your rifles....and commence firing",but it's accepted internationally in some shooting disciplines,and works well there.It's also pretty clear,but what is important is that all those involved know what it means.

 

As you say,sometimes some shooters don't have your useage....should be easy to get them up to speed,sir!

:-)

Gbal

[baldie]

Load...........insert magazine.

 

Ready...........cycle round into chamber.

[brown dog]

Load...........insert magazine.

 

Ready...........cycle round into chamber.

 

Nothing to add to that.

[bradders]

 

Nothing to add to that.

Yep, that's how it goes, clear and concise