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175 or 155,5 - what's better?


Malyutka

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I have got RPA Quadlock .308, '13 barrel. I use 175 at the moment. Any views if 155.5 Berger will be better for 900-1000 yards?

It really depends what you want to use it for.

Most of the FTR lads use the 155.5 Berger out of 30" plus barrels and swear by them. I've not herd of anyone using 175's!

For a shorter barrel it is easier to keep the 175 sonic at 1000 yards and is better for the more tactical type rifle and shooting on ETR type ranges.

Cheers

Dave

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I have got RPA Quadlock .308, '13 barrel. I use 175 at the moment. Any views if 155.5 Berger will be better for 900-1000 yards?

I don't know anyone using a 175gn bullet in F/TR at 'top level'. A few shoot the 185 Berger and even fewer play with the 210gn but the vast majority use the 155 - 155.5gn bullet.

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I know that a ballistics program is no substitute for shooting "in the field" but comparing Lapua Scenar 155's and Berger 155.5's in QuickLoad and Sierra Infinity shows that the Scenars beat the Bergers by a velocity of 70 fps at 1000 yards.

Has anyone shot both bullets and can thus confirm or disagree with this?

 

Up to now I've been trying 185 Bergers to improve 1000 yard shootablity out of my TRG and I'm now about to try the Scenars. I should have done this before.

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I know that a ballistics program is no substitute for shooting "in the field" but comparing Lapua Scenar 155's and Berger 155.5's in QuickLoad and Sierra Infinity shows that the Scenars beat the Bergers by a velocity of 70 fps at 1000 yards.

Has anyone shot both bullets and can thus confirm or disagree with this?

 

Up to now I've been trying 185 Bergers to improve 1000 yard shootablity out of my TRG and I'm now about to try the Scenars. I should have done this before.

"In the field" actual measuring of velocity at 1000 yards sounds quite tricky.....;-)

Gbal

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I know that a ballistics program is no substitute for shooting "in the field" but comparing Lapua Scenar 155's and Berger 155.5's in QuickLoad and Sierra Infinity shows that the Scenars beat the Bergers by a velocity of 70 fps at 1000 yards.

Has anyone shot both bullets and can thus confirm or disagree with this?

 

Up to now I've been trying 185 Bergers to improve 1000 yard shootablity out of my TRG and I'm now about to try the Scenars. I should have done this before.

It doesn't in my prog (JBM): Berger 155.5gn - terminal velocity 1327fps, Lapua Scenar 1269fps - assuming an m/v of 3000fps.

 

But, that wouldn't really sway me one way or the other. I'd pick the Berger (if price wasn't an issue!) because I would 'hope' that I was getting a better (more concentric etc) bullet.

 

A couple of years ago, I did a survey on the top ten FTR shooters at the Europeans - might still be on the GBFCA website. The most popular bullet was the Berger 155.5 though Stuart Anselm won with the 185 Berger.

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It doesn't in my prog (JBM): Berger 155.5gn - terminal velocity 1327fps, Lapua Scenar 1269fps - assuming an m/v of 3000fps.

 

But, that wouldn't really sway me one way or the other. I'd pick the Berger (if price wasn't an issue!) because I would 'hope' that I was getting a better (more concentric etc) bullet.

 

A couple of years ago, I did a survey on the top ten FTR shooters at the Europeans - might still be on the GBFCA website. The most popular bullet was the Berger 155.5 though Stuart Anselm won with the 185 Berger.

That's interesting. Sierra Infinity gives a terminal velocity of 1326 fps from a MV of 2800 fps (I'm still working my loads up carefully). I wonder how it's measured? It must a big chrono.

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What I meant was, has anyone shot both bullets and found one better than the other in terms of POI both vertically (fps) and windage.?

There is a fair bit of detailed ballistic work on this-one report found the Lapua berger and sierra close ballistically,and suggested you let the rifle decide what it liked....

The best I think is Brian Litz-no surprise there. In his 2009 "Full Bore Update" which had quite a detailed look at all eight 155 bullets available (in US).It's detailed-what did you expect?!- eg new Berger 155.5 Fullbore,and Lapua 155 Scenar and 155 HBC (Australia) were the top ballistic performers,but there was no decisive superiority...

Berger 155 VLD were in the second rank,155 old Palma were rather poor (good moderate,but now outclassed as 1000 y bullet by the top bullets.

You need to read it in some detail,really,and not while watching TV! Stay calm if your pet isn't the best here,though perhaps there are no real surprises....

Don't get at me,I'm just the messenger this time,and bear in mind the first report-that rifles might have preferences.But it does seem clear that the 155.5 berger and 155 Scenar set the pace,with the Aus HBC 155.

And bear in mind the emphasis is on ballistic superiority.

 

Gbal

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Well, Bryan Litz's article, as recommended by gbal, is a really interesting read. I've included a link to it here to save anyone who is interested having to search for it. Enjoy.

http://www.appliedballisticsllc.com/index_files/FULLBOREBulletUpdate.pdf[/qu

 

Thanks Brillo,for the net link-brill!(my mis-spent youth was in libraries,pre web links!)

Just a couple of more points from the article:

 

Brian's simulation (wind drift) suggests that the within bullet variation is about worth 10 points,the between bullet makes about 4 points,so that the higher BC will pay out but not dramatically,and statistically,in the long run,not every time.AND a .5mph improvement in wind reading makes for as big an improvement in scores as the BC difference between the highest and lowest bullets.

A nice point too is that different target rings in different disciplines can affect scores,of course,but are still too coarse to resolve the BC advantages of the best bullets-they don't measure too wellbecause,simply put ,they don't differentiate a bullet that just misses the 9 ring from one that just misses slipping into the 7 ring-both shots are 8.,despite the first shot being 'better'.So scores overall might be obscuring some differences in 'better bullets' performance.

And while the 1in13 twist is sufficient,it's quite possible that the better bullets might just do better in a 1 in 12.

 

Buy the best bullets and hire the best wind coach.Draw more rings when you are measuring bullet performance!

 

Gbal

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Gbal - hi, yes, it is an interesting topic and thank you for your comments. I think at this late time of the day (and after a few glasses of fine red wine) I think I will invest in various ammo - and see what works better in similar weather conditions for my rifle.

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Gbal - hi, yes, it is an interesting topic and thank you for your comments. I think at this late time of the day (and after a few glasses of fine red wine) I think I will invest in various ammo - and see what works better in similar weather conditions for my rifle.

Of course-go play and enjoy! There isn't anything controversial in Brian Litz' conclusions about the 'best' bullets,just detail why-and the caveat that ballistic differences per se don't win all matches! Though a tad more subjective,I take the same view of wines-read what experts say,but there is no substitute for drinking them yourself,whether you agree or not-and there are some very drinkable ones for less than fifteen Berger 155.5s !

Gbal

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