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FORAGING ON A COMERCIAL SCALE???????


dylan5588

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I do support BASC have been a member for a number of years, I take your point about vigilante retribution, and I am sure the unknown person that deflated afore mentioned tyres has seen the error of his ways!!!!

Please don't start me on the subject of children being allowed to roam freely and safely in the countryside, It saddens me that they cannot, for a number of reasons do the things we took for granted as youngsters, They miss out on so much. you cant blame the farmers for not allowing them on their land, As they are frightened of being sued if anything happens to them, and also you just don't know who is lurking somewhere just waiting to do them harm.

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I do support BASC have been a member for a number of years, I take your point about vigilante retribution, and I am sure the unknown person that deflated afore mentioned tyres has seen the error of his ways!!!!

Please don't start me on the subject of children being allowed to roam freely and safely in the countryside, It saddens me that they cannot, for a number of reasons do the things we took for granted as youngsters, They miss out on so much. you cant blame the farmers for not allowing them on their land, As they are frightened of being sued if anything happens to them, and also you just don't know who is lurking somewhere just waiting to do them harm.

I wasn't alluding to any "good old days",really. Just that within my lifetime in this country (technically it was in Scotland) we have changed quite a bit on this - from organised gangs of child foragers stripping hedgerows of rosehips for a pittance (sweet deal maybe for the syrup manufacturers),instead of attending school (for a few days);to more concern with education,or at least school attendance.I'm inclined to favour education,with other option at the weekend.Others might disagree-the point is we have changed our view as a society as to what is "best" on this issue-group harvest of countryside plants.

Actually,it was only the non academic classes that got time off-no lucrative potato picking either (50 .410 cartridges a day!).At least there is some small consolation in coming out of the system with some hope of dealing more easily with advanced ballistics-see other thread on Litz/math etc!!

Gbal

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I totally agree with your point about child labour, I was referring to kids being allowed the access to the countryside, as we had, in school holls and weekends etc.

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I totally agree with your point about child labour, I was referring to kids being allowed the access to the countryside, as we had, in school holls and weekends etc.

Yes-don't know what the 'crime' statistics were-I usually hid my bike,but gamekeepers were quite vigilant!!

Perhaps not all changes are for the better,and there is also some price to pay?

 

Nor do I know what growing up in ,say,Bulgaria is like currently.

 

Gbal

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Yes-don't know what the 'crime' statistics were-I usually hid my bike,but gamekeepers were quite vigilant!!

Perhaps not all changes are for the better,and there is also some price to pay?

 

Nor do I know what growing up in ,say,Bulgaria is like currently.

 

Gbal

I am talking about kids having fun, climbing trees, making dens, cutting a hazel branch to make a bow, or alder to make a popgun shooting hips, the list is endless, a lot of people complain because the kids of today are obsessed with technology, but in most areas they don't have the access to alternative things, In the village I live we are lucky that there is a large area of woodland with free access to all, the local dog walkers know children go there, and look out for their safety, and it gladdens my heart, when sometimes I see a couple of kids building a shelter, Probably using their imagination, and just being kids.

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I am talking about kids having fun, climbing trees, making dens, cutting a hazel branch to make a bow, or alder to make a popgun shooting hips, the list is endless, a lot of people complain because the kids of today are obsessed with technology, but in most areas they don't have the access to alternative things, In the village I live we are lucky that there is a large area of woodland with free access to all, the local dog walkers know children go there, and look out for their safety, and it gladdens my heart, when sometimes I see a couple of kids building a shelter, Probably using their imagination, and just being kids.

Sounds like Bulgaria! But maybe not Uncle Bulgaria/Wimbledon Common these days.

Gbal

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There's an interesting piece of news on the subject...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-24660153

Best wishes,

Finman

Hmmm...of course on SSSI it is unlawful-so vigilance and reporting should be the first/only course of action.

The pickers may be ignorant-of SSSI and other quirks of the British way of life.They may or may not be 'foreign'.

One reason to report too is that ignorance of this topic should not be a capital offence! Maybe a couple of days course at some modern 'Botany Bay" centre?

Gbal

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  • 9 months later...

Just to add something to this conversation.

 

I,ve travelled to Ireland for the last 20 or so years fishing, and have steadily seen its fish stock decimated by the eastern european immigrants. What was once a veritable fishing paradise has been absolutely destroyed. The fish are no longer there. I spent the last two visits virtually fishless.

 

The Irish know this and so do the fishing holiday companies. Imagine how much this has cost the Irish economy. Their fish stocks will never recover , and the anglers have deserted the land.

 

It makes you think.

Definitely agree with this. Where I live the lakes around us used to be full of fish. There's lake muck no in county Monaghan which used to be one of the best course fishing lakes in ireland - maybe even Europe. Biggest pike I've heard of -41 pounds with bream to over 20 pounds. The bream in this lake used to shoal in 10s of thousands- unbelievable spectacle to watch. This last few years this lake has been absolutely decimated. It has got they bad that there is a van full of locals who patrol the lake looking for foreigners with pike on the bank. They caught a man about a year ago with a big female pike full of eggs. Estimated weight to be at least 30 pounds lying on the the bank with its head bashed in. There's at least 10 other lakes near me that has been completely destroyed. Go knows how long it will take this lakes to recover if ever. There's a lot of very angry local fisherman round my part of the world- very sad indeed.

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Overharvesting of natural resources is hardly a new problem,nor the role of 'foreigners'....(consider the one day scores for bison:Sharps 186,bow and arrow 3).Likewise the demise of the passenger pigeon.To a lesser extent,east african big game-though poaching is now a major problem-but not by 'foreigners',and controlled,licensed,shooting (by foreigers) may be the best short term hope for their survival (the game,I mean!)

 

What are fish and game stocks like in the countries of origin of these 'foreigners' more locally? If adequate,how was this managed? If there are laws here,are they enforced/enforceable? If needed,has education in our ways been tried? Are we all willing to pay the price of conservation ? For that matter,are there clear data on the causes of fish/game decline,where it occurs? If 'poaching' is a major factor, just who is doing it?

I think I e experienced a decline in wild brown trout (I assume if anything I was a slightly better angler,rather than worse over the 10 year period),with nary a foreigner in sight (well,other than alleged sporadic poachers from N England).

 

The first step in any solution is to identify accurately the cause of the problem...though that is often enough difficult,it is alas,usually easier than coming up with the solution...as with many threatened species across the world.

 

Jobs and Tesco seem to reduce the hunter/gatherer drive in the vast majority of humans.

 

Gbal

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here in county meath the polish 'fishermen ' are a pita they show little or no regard for rules and regulations , i have even found them with small rowing boat a trawl nets on our little lake :blink: they have decimated fish stocks to the point where there is very little point fishing on most of the bigger lakes and such around here , having chatted to some polish/Lithuanian lads i have met over the years their attitude is that in their own country they are not allowed to act in this way but over here no-one seems to care and even if they are caught nothing ever comes of it

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Overharvesting of natural resources is hardly a new problem,nor the role of 'foreigners'....(consider the one day scores for bison:Sharps 186,bow and arrow 3).Likewise the demise of the passenger pigeon.To a lesser extent,east african big game-though poaching is now a major problem-but not by 'foreigners',and controlled,licensed,shooting (by foreigers) may be the best short term hope for their survival (the game,I mean!)

What are fish and game stocks like in the countries of origin of these 'foreigners' more locally? If adequate,how was this managed? If there are laws here,are they enforced/enforceable? If needed,has education in our ways been tried? Are we all willing to pay the price of conservation ? For that matter,are there clear data on the causes of fish/game decline,where it occurs? If 'poaching' is a major factor, just who is doing it?

I think I e experienced a decline in wild brown trout (I assume if anything I was a slightly better angler,rather than worse over the 10 year period),with nary a foreigner in sight (well,other than alleged sporadic poachers from N England).

The first step in any solution is to identify accurately the cause of the problem...though that is often enough

 

difficult,it is alas,usually easier than coming up with the solution...as with many threatened species across the world.

Jobs and Tesco seem to reduce the hunter/gatherer drive in the vast majority of humans.

Gbal

Look up the episode of total fishing with matt Hayes were he goes to Poland to fish in one of their "premier course fishing lakes". I think he only catches one fish the entire trip. He gets very frustrated through the program. The lake in question seems to be totally fished out. He even comments about it in the program.

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Murph,landkeeper, I did not mean to exclude 'foreign'' poachers or fishermen with different ideas.

What I was trying to get clearer was just what was going on:

 

"Polish/lithuanian' lads are reported as saying they are not allowed to 'overfish' home,but also that Polands premier lake is allegedly 'fished out'-can both be true?

Mat is a professional angler-it's not good for him to catch only one-though it's hardly an unknown experience - you'd have tought he'd have done some homework on this 'premier lake' in advance.Perhaps he had,and was not therefore surprised.But how does this reputation survive if it's fished out?

It might be...but something does not square here.

Likewise,the 'poacher' pike takers-if reported by the local 'neo vigiiantes',why is no action taken-has any law been broken (I just don't know the local rules etc).If there is no enforcement (or it's less than it is/isn't in Poland-we have both it seems..??- then why not-the shortcoming seems to be in the local authorities,and they should be accountable.

Hence my concern in accurate diagnosis-let alone whether it's only 'foreigners' that are overfishing/poaching-and locating all that might be wrong.

What you say has some plausibility,but even so,has little so far,to suggest a viable solution. My final point was that Poland etc have been around for a while,in fish stock terms-why then is the problem so much worse now,and would a better standard of living help (job/Tesco)...not easy,but then what is going to realistically be done with only some version of "over fishing,over greedy and over here"?

Any ideas?

Gbal

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i think the no1 problems is they eat what they catch , at the start of the celtic tiger years reports filtered back of large bags of bream/pike whatever being taken knocked on the head and sold to fellow countrymen for supper

i don't know what the situation is in the uk abut here our local guards had major problems trying to get convictions for major traffic offences let alone a few fish taken illegally :mad:

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Dave and Dylan,

I agree-you can add in poaching of rare (any) species etc etc.

The problem is clear enough,and not really new.

The issue is what can a law abiding citizen,and indeed country ,do about it.

Quite a bit,with game laws,quotas and such,restocking,but it does not come cheap.

Amateur vigilante acts of illegal retribution are not the long term answer,however.

We all need to think on and beyond,or at least support the likes of BASC,who are aware and do something.BASC of course has little influence in Italy,where shooting migrating finches etc occurs,while we don't shoot such species in the UK. The issues cross frontiers of many kinds.

atb

Gbal

 

ps I miss the mushrooms and trout of 50+ years ago too,in the times when schoolchildren were allowed days off to pick roadside rose hips,in organised 'groups'.

 

Dave and Dylan,

I agree-you can add in poaching of rare (any) species etc etc.

The problem is clear enough,and not really new.

The issue is what can a law abiding citizen,and indeed country ,do about it.

Quite a bit,with game laws,quotas and such,restocking,but it does not come cheap.

Amateur vigilante acts of illegal retribution are not the long term answer,however.

We all need to think on and beyond,or at least support the likes of BASC,who are aware and do something.BASC of course has little influence in Italy,where shooting migrating finches etc occurs,while we don't shoot such species in the UK. The issues cross frontiers of many kinds.

atb

Gbal

 

ps I miss the mushrooms and trout of 50+ years ago too,in the times when schoolchildren were allowed days off to pick roadside rose hips,in organised 'groups'.

Yes you are correct amateur vigilantes are not the answer use professional vigilantes and do a proper job it is the only thing they understand and fear

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Yes you are correct amateur vigilantes are not the answer use professional vigilantes and do a proper job it is the only thing they understand and fear

You may be right.I would tend to use "Northumbria Police"-any other contractor tends to be risky.I'm not saying they are perfect,but what is,given the operational constraints?

At least with them,you are pretty safe from any counter measures,legal or otherwise. I get the distinct feeling too,that they would like to have a monopoly when it comes to starting any retribution process.Such bother I don't need,at my age..Capische?

g

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