Lukas_K Posted September 22, 2013 Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 It´s a fact these have a rather heavier bolt lift due to the 4-lug design and the short lift to cock the action. Now I steered into a problem as my girl loves the rifle (fits her the best) but cannot even open the bolt (yes, she´s small...). So what do I do? Anybody experimented with this before - any remedies to be recommended? I thought of using a different quality bearing in the back so far. But are there any modified firing pins, lighter designs with lighter springs maybe..? Thanks for any advice before I sell in order to build an entirely different rifle....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch_egg Posted September 22, 2013 Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 How about a new really long bolt handle to increase leverage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukas_K Posted September 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 Done, also added a little down&back curve for better ergo. It has its´ practical limits, though, and didn´t solve the problem. Now looking more into modifying the internals, if there´s a way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcampbellsmith Posted September 22, 2013 Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 Have you lightly greased the bolt lugs? Also, have you cleaned out the bolt lug recess? Regards JCS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onehole Posted September 22, 2013 Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 Leave it alone get a bit more butch girlfriend,,,,,,,,I got one,,,,,,,,,said in jest,,,,,,onehole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gun Pimp Posted September 22, 2013 Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 I just don't know why shooters put up with these actions! I know it's all about lock-time but there are plenty of good 'sling' shooters in America who use conventional actions. You could try a lighter spring - off your car's front suspension! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Re-Pete Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 I had this problem with a Swing, which has a similar 4-lug system. We resorted to using a bit of gas pipe to lever the bolt open. My solution was initially to simply fit a "softer" firing pin spring. This made the bolt lift a bit easier. Then at RGC's suggestion, I tried a set of Bellville washers in place of the spring. This has transformed the rifle. A 4-lug cock-on-opening design will always be a bit stiffer than other designs, though. H/man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukas_K Posted October 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 Now you´re tempting me! I always thought the belleville washers accounted for an even more difficult bolt lift - but that might be my wrong assumption from them being "stronger & faster" (thus shorter locktime). Let´s experiment, then. Would you remember the amount and type of washers you used, or any formula I could start with to determine the spring replacement, please? LK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onehole Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 Yeah,,,,I would be interested to know how to set up a Bellville washer system.Would not want to trade any lock time though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukas_K Posted October 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 I don´t believe ANY action would easily convert to the Belleville system. It is true washers are differently stackable and the stack is nearly infinitely adjustable as to the force, but it is limited in the range of motion (compared to a conventional spring). Hence my question above, as it would be great to have a starting point (how many washers were used, and in what configuration). Anyway since the Quadlock (factory Belleville setting) is convertible to a traditional spring with the use of a Quadlite spring, I suppose this will work vice versa as well (possibly with some modification necessary to the firing pin assembly?). I´m ordering the original Quadlock stack and will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian_K Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 Moly grease on each of the four lugs helps a little, but I have to admit in the end I gave up and fitted a Barnard S action: Not the cheapest option maybe, but I now have a rifle that I love to shoot. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 I use Belleville washer stacks and typically anywhere between 37 and 43 will suffice. Always stack with an uneven number and finish on a pair at the front. The stack will be considerably shorter than a conventional coil spring so you will need a spacer at the rear of the firing pin rod. The length of spacer should be such that the stack can be rotated but with no forward motion when decompressed. Calculated lock time is going to be anything up to 35% quicker than a conventional spring plus you have the added bonus of the springs having no tension on them when de-cocked whereas a conventional compression spring is constantly under tension even when de-cocked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch_egg Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 I had never heard of a belville stack prior to this topic. Can some one tell me why when the advantages of quicker lock time and no tension when de-cock, are conventional firing pin springs still used? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onehole Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 I don´t believe ANY action would easily convert to the Belleville system. It is true washers are differently stackable and the stack is nearly infinitely adjustable as to the force, but it is limited in the range of motion (compared to a conventional spring). Hence my question above, as it would be great to have a starting point (how many washers were used, and in what configuration). Anyway since the Quadlock (factory Belleville setting) is convertible to a traditional spring with the use of a Quadlite spring, I suppose this will work vice versa as well (possibly with some modification necessary to the firing pin assembly?). I´m ordering the original Quadlock stack and will see. Presumably you are ordering direct from RPA or somewhere else? Thanks Onehole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 Scotch_egg, Belleville stacks are mostly used on a specific range of actions, namely the CG, RPA2000 RPA Quadlock, Millennium, M41 INCH and most recently on the M59 and M66. The earlier actions were more the domain of the Target Shooter who not having a mechanical rest would always look for faster lock times as a perceived advantage. Downside is the cock on open can upset the rifle position however that is not an issue for a TR or MR shooter. More recently the likes of the Quadlock has found its way into F Class circles which is good, certainly the M41 is used on F Class, I am not sure about the Millie. Belleville washers do have the reputation for needing more muscle to lift the bolt handle and cock the system although this is not something I have noticed. Another consideration is cost as Belleville washers are going to cost more than a compression spring and finally I have a feeling the use of the Belleville washer stack for primer ignition is patented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 One thing I would suggest is drop the firing pin and spring out of the bolt and then close and open the bolt a few times to make sure there is no resistance which could be contributing to the issue, try this with a couple of dummy rounds as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukas_K Posted October 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 Thanks for all the input! I´m pretty sure there´s nothing WRONG with the bolt, I mean I can work it with two fingers... but the girl´s got hooked into the sport, which is great, and we share my rifle. She´s 110lbs tops and that´s with her boots on. The bolt lift FOR HER is heavy, I see her struggling after only a few shots. A different rifle´s kind of out of the question, too. We have very limited market for precision rifles here and the prices are outrageous - I´ve paid well over 6 grand of your coin for that Rangemaster alone, and I have little hope for any resale value at all. If it were a little different around here, I´d get a proper build for her, but in these circumstances, I´m trying to achieve whatever I can with what little I already have. If different spring system makes any difference, then it´ll be great. Getting sidetracked here: thanks for the annealing cup Davy, quickly became one of my fav reloading tools Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 Hehe, I thought I recognised the name, I use one all of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukas_K Posted November 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 Update info: I got my parts earlier from Mr. Carmichael (HPS-TR) but it took a while to get myself on the range. Made the conversion yesterday, installed 26 washers (13 pairs) and specified spacers. I also re-lubed the whole bolt assembly with SentrySolutions dry lube for the winter. The bolt lift IS noticeably lighter and smoother. Can´t say by how much as that´s all about feel, but there´s quite less movement involved in the rifle when working the action open. Happy for now and will leave it as is. I was warned about longevity of the washer system as compared to the conventional spring, but only time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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