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done.

back fired on them so far

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Seems to have been closed for the vote as they were not getting what they wanted, put a comment on which couldn't go up and vote button gone

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It is working again now.....a lot of the 'yes' votes have gone missing, but worth voting again.

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How strange .... why should some YES votes go missing!

Went on this morning and not working. Just gone back on now and yes working fine.

 

Nice own goal for them if it came off :blink:

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What a complete farce ! I voted yesterday on this and at the time the antis were taking a pounding...... now it would seem that somebody lets guess... is knocking yes votes of to ensure their required result. What a bunch of tossers frightened of the democratic process.

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Ditto, somebody is playing silly buggers with the poll, Mogabe involved???

 

 

Mike

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Mmmmm. Careful what we wish for? I love grouse shooting and long may it continue. This may seem like a thin edge of the wedge type thing but should we be supporting a worrying aspect of the sporting industry that displaces the environment for their enjoyment? This campaign focus is misguided. Nothing wrong with the pursuit of of game species. I bet 99% of readers here don't manipulate the natural environment at all for their benefit. I vote yes - don't ban it, but some things need to be adjusted to avoid general unfortunate disrepute to the sporting community. This has the potential to drag everyone down in the worl pool.

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Mmmmm. Careful what we wish for? I love grouse shooting and long may it continue. This may seem like a thin edge of the wedge type thing but should we be supporting a worrying aspect of the sporting industry that displaces the environment for their enjoyment? This campaign focus is misguided. Nothing wrong with the pursuit of of game species. I bet 99% of readers here don't manipulate the natural environment at all for their benefit. I vote yes - don't ban it, but some things need to be adjusted to avoid general unfortunate disrepute to the sporting community. This has the potential to drag everyone down in the worl pool.

Make a clear point please. I for one cannot understand the bit of manipulating the environment which you don't like. All land in the UK has been manipulated for centuries and its impossible to turn the clock back. The Grouse moor next to me is being re-established to shootable levels presently and a very fine job is being done of it, to a not inconsiderable cost to the lease holder I shall bet. The keeper comes on this site now and again and I doubt he is the 1% you mention

correctly managed Grouse moor is one of the best environments in our land. Red Grouse as a bird is not exactly common outside of the UK and Ireland.

Better not to become a knocker because like many I do not have the funds to enjoy a few days on the grouse with the gun. The best I might enjoy is a day with the dogs, besides I am a bit of a tight wad

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The keeper'd grouse moor has wide ranging benefits to far more than the grouse. considerably better than RSPB "reserves" for many rare waders, the Hen Harrier project in Bowland worked because the ground is keeper'd not despite.

 

As for not manipulating the environment then does a rifle range, road, garden etc not manipulate the environment. We have been doing it for thousands of years to some degree.

 

Moor management along with other shoots and even ranges (military in particular) have many proven benefits that far outweigh any negatives and there are many studies to prove this.

 

Shooting does this at its own cost bringing jobs and other income into the area's. So yes keep all forms of shooting this country's wildlife would be poorer without it.

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In the heyday of Edwardian game shooting the economics were detailed thus:

 

"Up gets a guinea,bang goes a penny halfpenny,and down comes half a crown."

 

The eightfold difference was carried by the landowner.I wonder if the economics are much different for commercial driven game shooting these days,where the shooter pays?

 

Gbal

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Ah folks. Please don't misunderstand me and apologise if I have given the wrong impression. As said I am 100% in support of grouse shooting. The poll obviously has been generated because something is not right. Shouldn't we try to understand what that is so we can be on the front foot?

 

I agree that these places have been influenced by man and that's why many of the amazing things we find there exist. I just hope that all this generates new thinking rather than the blind obstinance that sealed the fate of hunting with hounds.

 

Man has just about managed to cultivate every part of these islands where it was possible to put a plough across. The coast, moorlands, mountains and woodlands are the closest we have to natural landscapes. Too much gardening could alter the very thing it aims to maintain.

 

So, what I am saying is let this be an opportunity to avoid our sporting heritage being picked off one by one. The poll won't achieve anything for anyone (and for what it's worth I think it's gone off half cocked) but it should act as a trigger for meaningful discussion.

 

Which it has - so that's great!!

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In the heyday of Edwardian game shooting the economics were detailed thus:

 

"Up gets a guinea,bang goes a penny halfpenny,and down comes half a crown."

 

The eightfold difference was carried by the landowner.I wonder if the economics are much different for commercial driven game shooting these days,where the shooter pays?

 

Gbal

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Ah folks. Please don't misunderstand me and apologise if I have given the wrong impression. As said I am 100% in support of grouse shooting. The poll obviously has been generated because something is not right. Shouldn't we try to understand what that is so we can be on the front foot?

 

I agree that these places have been influenced by man and that's why many of the amazing things we find there exist. I just hope that all this generates new thinking rather than the blind obstinance that sealed the fate of hunting with hounds.

 

Man has just about managed to cultivate every part of these islands where it was possible to put a plough across. The coast, moorlands, mountains and woodlands are the closest we have to natural landscapes. Too much gardening could alter the very thing it aims to maintain.

 

So, what I am saying is let this be an opportunity to avoid our sporting heritage being picked off one by one. The poll won't achieve anything for anyone (and for what it's worth I think it's gone off half cocked) but it should act as a trigger for meaningful discussion.

 

Which it has - so that's great!!

Unfortunately what is missing is the ignorance of the anti to the facts. Explain them and 99.99% of them don't listen. To be fair many are anti by nature and are not actually interested in the facts. About 30 yrs ago I saw an anti totally converted. He had come to protest outside an old open entry BASC / BFFS road show (why don't we see those now) anyway his banner waving mates stayed stayed outside and he went inside to argue his point with a keeper. The keeper talked to him about the songbirds that he fed along with the pheasant, why the woods were not cut down in the past to make bigger fields etc.,etc. Any how at the end of their chat he had arranged to have a guided tour of the shoot. However at the end he did say "what about foxhunting then?" the keeper (a wise man) said "Dunno, never been ask the huntsman he is over there I am sure he will explain his sport".

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Peter Scott was an enthusiastic and experienced wildfowl shooter.

Slimbridge is a practical attempt to demonstrate conservation of wildfowl without shooting.

 

Gamekeepers do not shoot songbirds,nor feed them.

Many people do feed garden songbirds,but do not shoot them.

 

The moral and ethical highground, is not the prerogative of either the pro or anti factions,and it is simply simplistic to claim otherwise.Conservation for example,means good management,in our world,but just what is 'good management"? There is,as was said,plenty room for and need of,informed discussion,which might at least ,be pragmatic.

Gbal

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