Jump to content

Disappointing day with my Savage F/TR


Shootist

Recommended Posts

New to me but previously owned Savage Model 12 F/TR .308. I've been down the range a couple of times now with some reloads trying it out at 110 yards just for the set up. Of the admittedly limited number of loads I've tried, it refuses to shoot any much under an inch, although it seems to shoot pretty much anything under an inch! This seems to me to be a little bit poor.

Here's the list of loads:

150 grain Sierra MK - 40grains N140 - 44gn N140
155 grain Scenar - 44gn N140 - 46.2gn N140
168 grain Sierra MK - 41 gn N140 - 42gn N140
155 grain Sierra Palma (2156) 46.2 N140

COL varies according to bullet, measured with Hornady COL measure, but never exceeds 2.8", which seems a little short.

Some knowledgeable input would be appreciated.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have you tried it with any lap factory to see if it shoots on those to check consistency ? Lap 168 grains factory shot very well in my savage . Other than that I have to bow to the knowledge of others on here but can only say that 168 gr shot very well over h4895 . Cheers Ian

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd work with the 155 Lapua Scenar and Vit 140. If you can afford 'em - use the 'L' version bullet.

 

You need to find out the max. load then step back about half a grain and look for your accuracy load. Seat just off the rifling - about ten thou.

 

I assume you're using Lapua brass........

 

I've tested a few of these rifles and they'll usually shoot around half an inch with good handloads.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would also look at other factors...

 

  • Is your barrel 'floating' or is it touching the stock at points it should not ( no knowledge of Savage design factors but assume its intended to have a floated barrel?) ...if it touches it can 'throw' shots off centre.
  • Are you confident that you are breaking the shot without flinching or jerking the trigger ?
  • Is the trigger smooth or too heavy?
  • If you are shooting from a bipod are you forward loading it consistently?
  • Wind conditions making consistency problematic?
  • For initial accuracy checks are you shooting to a consistent POA and focused only on grouping wherever it actually impacts OR 'fiddling' with scope dials to compensate for off-centre shots?

None of teh above intended as criticism....just suggesting what else could be a factor.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have you run your loads across a chronograph to see how consistent they are? I crimp my 308 loads (Lee FCD) and it helps with accuracy. Not a popular practice on your side of the pond, but I have found it beneficial wth most cartridges. Reduced my standard deviation in some cases by over 40% comparing loads that are identical (brass LOT, bullets, etc) and only differing in the application of a crimp.~Andrew

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My 308 is a Sako TRG-22 and at 100 yards its easily shoots sub 0.3moa groups at speeds anywhere between 2650 - 2850fps. Best groups were obtained with 155 SMK's with 44.0 grains of Vit N140 and 46.9 grain TR140 with the bullet seated 0.030" off the lands...... That is, until I tried Lapua Scenar heads in an attempt to increase velocity without increasing loads. It all went pear shaped and my groups opened up. It took some time to find that the Lapua bullet preferred being seated closer to the lands by 10 thou.

I mention this because you might find that your Savage is COAL sensitive.

To add weight to this; I have the same model Savage in 6mm BR. I ran it in the usual prescribed way before even attempting groups and it shot like a pig. I had some good advice from Vince and it turns out that my 6BR is COAL sensitive with certain bullets.

I started getting better groups by picking the best group I had from a given load and then loaded batches of rounds starting at just off the lands, going back to 0.070" in 0.015" intervals. Once I had a sweet spot I refined that further by 0.005" either side of the sweet spot and then started playing with powder weights.

It was a long process but I'm convinced that some guns are quick to tune and others difficult. Maybe your Savage is one of the latter.

 

HTH

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had an Ftr for a while and I have to say it was a pig to start with. It was a while before realising that the stock was the wrong shape for me. I found that I had very poor trigger control due to the angle of the grip. I got a Choate Varmint stock which has a near vertical grip and with a little bit of packing at the base of my trigger finger got the blade to sit nicely on the ball of my finger. Strait away it easily halved my group sizes and I was able to shoot it with confidence.

If you are all out for accuracy at 1K regardless of expense and barrel life, try the 155.5 bergers driven fast and seated 10thou off the lands. I used varget but can't remember how much. Something about the chamber enabled really hot loads, way hotter than I would dare try in any other .308. Obviously work up carefully.

It also shot the new hybrid 155SMK really well but they were a compromise against the bergers. I ran them at pedestrian speeds too,to save barrel wear.

Never got it to shoot anywhere near well with Scenars, don't waste your money.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oakens load with the 155.5 Bergers was 45 gr Varget, I now have this rifle and find it very accurate.

Glad its performing for you, have you tried warming up the loads yet?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had an Ftr for a while and I have to say it was a pig to start with. It was a while before realising that the stock was the wrong shape for me. I found that I had very poor trigger control due to the angle of the grip. I got a Choate Varmint stock which has a near vertical grip and with a little bit of packing at the base of my trigger finger got the blade to sit nicely on the ball of my finger. Strait away it easily halved my group sizes and I was able to shoot it with confidence.

 

That's a really useful observation.

 

My first question in answer to the OP would be (and meant helpfully, not being rude) -how well do you group with other rifles?

 

With a rifle that's putting everything into under an inch; my first instinct would be think it's a wildly accurate rifle that's being shot with inconsistent (for whatever reason -poor fit, inexperience whatever) position and hold.

 

I'd want to know that that wasn't the cause before I started tinkering with loads: Years ago I had an SSG 69 that I used to cuss because I couldn't get it to group below 0.75MOA; one day a pal of mine lifted the rifle out of my hands and shot -without changing anything- a series of 0.5MOA groups; then gave it back to me .......and it went straight back to 0.75MOA.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

That's a really useful observation.

 

My first question in answer to the OP would be (and meant helpfully, not being rude) -how well do you group with other rifles?

 

With a rifle that's putting everything into under an inch; my first instinct would be think it's a wildly accurate rifle that's being shot with inconsistent (for whatever reason -poor fit, inexperience whatever) position and hold.

 

I'd want to know that that wasn't the cause before I started tinkering with loads: Years ago I had an SSG 69 that I used to cuss because I couldn't get it to group below 0.75MOA; one day a pal of mine lifted the rifle out of my hands and shot -without changing anything- a series of 0.5MOA groups; then gave it back to me .......and it went straight back to 0.75MOA.

I could, with the right load, get .75" at 185 yards with my .223 Steyr Scout. My 6.5 Swedish Mauser will do around 1.25" at 110 yards. My K31 will do about 2" with GP!! (Both rifles scoped BTW.) But what you say is always good advice. First thing with a new rifle that has accuracy issues is always to get another shooter, a good one, to try it. I've not done that yet, but I will. Just got to get some rounds loaded up (and fix the ejector which has gone none functional!).

 

The one thing that bothers me is quite why on a dedicated long range rifle the lead into the rifling seems so short. Some of the rounds I made up were below 2.8", and the max COL measured with a Hornady gauge were as follows:

 

Scenar 155 - 2.825

Sierra 155 (2155) - 2.807

Sierra 168 - 2.811

Sierra 150 - 2.771

Sierra 155 Palma (2156) - 2.884

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I could, with the right load, get .75" at 185 yards with my .223 Steyr Scout. My 6.5 Swedish Mauser will do around 1.25" at 110 yards. My K31 will do about 2" with GP!! (Both rifles scoped BTW.) But what you say is always good advice. First thing with a new rifle that has accuracy issues is always to get another shooter, a good one, to try it. I've not done that yet, but I will. Just got to get some rounds loaded up (and fix the ejector which has gone none functional!).

 

The one thing that bothers me is quite why on a dedicated long range rifle the lead into the rifling seems so short. Some of the rounds I made up were below 2.8", and the max COL measured with a Hornady gauge were as follows:

 

Scenar 155 - 2.825

Sierra 155 (2155) - 2.807

Sierra 168 - 2.811

Sierra 150 - 2.771

Sierra 155 Palma (2156) - 2.884

 

It may be that the manufacturer assumed that the owner may want to shoot factory ammunition - which is probably a fair assumption in the USA.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I used to cuss because I couldn't get it to group below 0.75MOA; one day a pal of mine lifted the rifle out of my hands and shot -without changing anything- a series of 0.5MOA groups; then gave it back to me .......and it went straight back to 0.75MOA.

You were shooting at your best that day then ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I could, with the right load, get .75" at 185 yards with my .223 Steyr Scout. My 6.5 Swedish Mauser will do around 1.25" at 110 yards. My K31 will do about 2" with GP!! (Both rifles scoped BTW.) But what you say is always good advice. First thing with a new rifle that has accuracy issues is always to get another shooter, a good one, to try it. I've not done that yet, but I will. Just got to get some rounds loaded up (and fix the ejector which has gone none functional!).

 

The one thing that bothers me is quite why on a dedicated long range rifle the lead into the rifling seems so short. Some of the rounds I made up were below 2.8", and the max COL measured with a Hornady gauge were as follows:

 

Scenar 155 - 2.825

Sierra 155 (2155) - 2.807

Sierra 168 - 2.811

Sierra 150 - 2.771

Sierra 155 Palma (2156) - 2.884

Re your ejector , my FTR action (it wears a different 1-11 32" barrel) will only eject newish brass , after a couple of firings it stops ejecting them. Mine is left port , right bolt and not an issue to get brass out easily . I full length size every time. Probably not relevant as I have a different twist and non std chamber but I run 185g scenars with 46.8g N550 at around 2830fps COL 2.830 , berger 185g long range COL at 2.900 with the same N550 load

Andy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd stick with either of the 155s and N140. You say you're surprised by the OAL. I take this to mean you're loading them out to the rifling? We've found that working back from the rifling (on advice from Callum Ferguson) gave better accuracy, and from memory we ended up as much as .030" away from the rifling. This gun (a Krieger Barreled, Blurprinted Remington 700) shoots honest 1/2MOA groups with a stout load of 140 and 155 Scenars.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had the same ejector/extractor problems with both my Savages - A very easy fix is to replace the detent ball under the extractor plate with one slightly bigger. (I used a 3.5mm B)

 

Here's and explanation taken from the Savage shooters site:-

 

**********

Since I have been receiving many calls with this problem, I began to study it closer. I have done many different things on various guns to remedy the problem, which included: making custom extractors, opening up smaller bolt faces to the correct diameter(.223 to .308) , making larger ejector pins,and I even bushed a bolt face to reduce the diameter to correct size. Then I tried something yesterday that made sense, and it is very simple. First let me explain...

 

The spring pocket diameter in the bolt head (under the extractor plate) measures .150". The extractor spring measures .145", but the detent ball only measures .125". When the detent ball is centered in the detent of the extractor by spring pressure, it has .025" clearance between it and the hole dia. This make for side to side slop that will not compress the detent ball and spring. When a cartridge is pressed in the bolt face, the extractor,ball and spring can be deflected approx. .0125" before the detent ball compresses the spring. The result is that amount of movement will not spring back to center, essentially leaving the extractor claw not grabbing that much of the case.

 

Is everyone following me on this? The fix is simple - use a bigger ball. I have some in stock, they measure .140", thus reducing the non-returning slop.

I have tried this on several here in the shop and had 100% success rate, although there may be a combination of factors out there on a rifle that it may not help, but it sure as heck won't hurt.

 

***********

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The ejector is pretty basic - If you have a look at the bolt you will see a small cross pin retains the ejector plunger. The pin easily drifts out and you should then be able to remove the plunger. May just need a clean/de-burr/polish or the small spring has collapsed.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&docid=yMsgWHM74sx4ZM&tbnid=WymWWxUTgAVZZM:&ved=0CAUQjBwwADhG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fi927.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fad111%2FRocketmanOU%2FDSC06011Small.jpg&ei=zJHxUeG0AoX6PPSEgIgO&psig=AFQjCNFL0hKiaJDEjhDx9fFQMhL_pmhK0g&ust=1374872396072527

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The ejector is pretty basic - If you have a look at the bolt you will see a small cross pin retains the ejector plunger. The pin easily drifts out and you should then be able to remove the plunger. May just need a clean/de-burr/polish or the small spring has collapsed.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&docid=yMsgWHM74sx4ZM&tbnid=WymWWxUTgAVZZM:&ved=0CAUQjBwwADhG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fi927.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fad111%2FRocketmanOU%2FDSC06011Small.jpg&ei=zJHxUeG0AoX6PPSEgIgO&psig=AFQjCNFL0hKiaJDEjhDx9fFQMhL_pmhK0g&ust=1374872396072527

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy