changing HMR for?

[pork chop]

still probably going Hornet for up to 200yds , as stated in original post , ill stay away from .20 as my 223Ackley does the job from 200yds and onwards , hornet is hard to beat , economical , fairly quite , i remember bruce potts article on the hornet , in the right hands its a 250 yrd gun ! no special fetteling or parts , just a great calibre . ill reload for it too , just hope i can get the right powder .. atb...tim...

look for some lilgun me and 204rem use it with 40gr vmax ,it's been very easy to find a load both guns like infact both use 13gr of powder.col is the only difference between the two

[Andrew]

We've already got 204 rifles. Wanted something more challenging And more fun to shoot With

And that's the point, isn't it? I have .222, 223. and 204's and I still grab the Hornet because it challenges me. I have been using it so long that often I swear I can imagine the bullets' trajectory in my minds eye -transposed onto the sight picture as I line up for the shot. Thousands of rounds and pounds of Lil Gun.

 

Because I shoot mostly prairiedogs and our small cottontail rabbits I stick with 33-35 grain bullets. I have no problems to 200 yards and don't need to walk in my rounds, even in our prairie winds. The worst I'll do is miss and the way the wind blows here, it is harder holding the rifle steady than it is judging the wind and I could miss with any of my more powerful rifles under these circumstances.~Andrew

[gbal]

Tim,I hope you enjoy your Hornet experiences,and you will if you keep in mind it's capabilities.

Pork Chop and 2004 rem,I hope you continue to explore it's limits too.

Andrew,as ever informed and realistic appraisal of it can do with a lifetime of practice.

As it was too wet up here to actually shoot yesterday,I thought I'd spend half an hour referencing the Hornet over the years:

 

Estes,The Woodchuck Hunter 1936.

1" high at 100y,zero at 150,3" low at 200y.Quotes Whelen 'woodchucks up to and slightly beyond 200y'.

New Sisk bullets were giving 35g @ 3000fps,and summarises "I do not consider the Hornet to be a 200 yard chuck killer,day in and day out,but it can give a good percentage of hits on days with no strong wind."

 

Landis 22 Caliber Varmint Rifles 1947 :" the Hornet is nearly ideal in quiet,settled districts ,at under 200y."(remember he is talking about USA)

 

Landis Hunting with the 22 1950; "the only small caliber that ensures (woodchuck) kills up to 150 yards.5 or 6 consecutive kills can be made from 175 to 250 yards,when conditions are favourable,but not consistent kills at 200 and beyond."

 

Carmichael "Book of the Rifle" 1985: "The Hornet trajectory was flat enough for reasonably sure hits out to 200 yards or so"

 

Mace The Accurate Varmint Rifle" 1991: "The Hornet is effective to 200 yards if the wind is reasonably calm,accuracy is reasonably good but not outstanding."

 

Barnes Cartridges of the World 2003 :(Hornet) is an adequate small varmint cartridge,which suffers in comparison with the 223-it's a fine choice for economical shooting at ranges between 100 and 150 yards."

 

Forker Ammo and Ballistics 2010 : The Hornet has a very mixed reputation for accuracy.Some do well,others are terrible.It's stil an excellent little varmint cartridge when fired froma good gun,so long as range is limited to about 200 yards."

 

Potts in Shooting Times 2007:'The effective range is 175 -200 yards.35g vmax @ 3057. 250 yards is stretching things,so go for the larger 22cfs."

 

Simpson In US Shooting times 2011: tested 24 loadings-some were about half inch,but worst was over 3 inches." the Hornet is optimum for easing along hedgerows without disturbing neighbours."(USA remember).

 

Moore in Gunmart ,about 2011: The Hornet (eventually) showed acceptable ability out to 150 yards.Some groups were 1+ inches,some sub !/2 inch,so you take a chance on whether.. it shoots or not..there would be a niche for a modern bottle neck cartridge with a little more power".((That would be the 221 Fireball,Pete...)).

 

Well,I think everyone can take something from all these,but there is also quite a consensus.I was a little surprised that more recent developments did not change the overall picture much(especially better BC bullets-but 35 g at 3000 in 1936 isn't shabby at all,though of course this was in the happy days before BCs.)

It clearly has a niche-economical,200 yard capable for small vermin,and quiet.I've had two,at either end of the spectrum( a light but old BSA,with indifferent accuracy,and a Ruger Varmint-much better,too heavy).

 

 

But go play.History and decades of experience outline what you can expect,but you may well do a bit better with modern components and rifles.

If I ever feel the itch to fill this niche,it's the 221 Fireball for me.

 

Gbal

 

ps if you fancy the new 17 Hornet (20g @3600),C.S.Landis had his 17 Landis Woodsman in the 1930s doing 25g @3500....didn't set the woods alight...but Hornady and Savage might have better marketing...plus ca change.....??

[Andrew]

Yeah. I've read most of these accounts about the Hornet. Frankly, if you collared me 10 years ago I would have told you that a consistent MOA Hornet was a rare bird. I have burned a lot of powder in Hornets from Custom Winchester Hi-Walls to Anschutz with about everything in between. (...that I could get a hold of, that is) I've even used the Sisk 35 grainers. In the past, the most accurate one I owned was a Rolling Block Remington custom in the eighties.

 

About 12 years ago, a buddy of mine bought a CZ at Camp Pendelton and I got to watch him shoot his Lil Gun/35 grain VMax handloads at ground squirrels down on the Mexican border. He was turning these salt-shaker sized rodents into flying fur bits at 200 and 225 yards. I was floored. I ended up with a CZ American of my own after selling my Anschutz once I got back to Montana. Between the two of us, my Marine buddy and I have hammered out a really good systemn for loading the Hornet. I don't get MOA groups. All mine hover consistently in the 1/2 MOA region with many much better: as does my buddy's and as do my son's. My reloading room is wall papered with them. All shot from CZ American's which I believe is the best and most consistently accurate Hornet I've encountered. I have reloaded for five of these rifles, all the same technique, and all pretty much equally accurate; operator error notwithstanding. I spent the last 10 days on vacation shooting prairiedogs, largely with my .22 Hornet, as I have done for the last eight years since moving back home. Killed thousands of them over the years, and hundreds of rabbits. This is my most recent experience base which has caused me to look at past experiences and accounts through a different lense.

 

All that said, I did write in an earlier post that if you aren't willing to put extra care into loading for a Hornet, don't bother getting one. They require a little extra care in loading. Or if you aren't willing to learn to shoot them-or don't want that challenge- get something that offers a flatter trajectory.

 

Lastly, if you buy a Hornet other than a CZ I think you're wasting your time.JMHO~Andrew

[kent]

Pork chop

do you think hornet moderates with centerfire mod, as quiet,as hmr with rimfire mod ?

 

My family say they cannot hear the Hornet in the kitchen when I am shooting at the front of the house, its equipped with a T12 scout MAE the HMR they could with a SAK.

The Hornet has more reflected noise in certain locations (like along side a dry stone wall) yet across open ground it is better

[kent]

Was shooting the Hornet on paper at 360 yds the other day ( lets just say it convinced me this calibre has so much more to offer) Mine is in bits presently awaiting re-build coz I just bedded the action with pillars as I have been getting a tad of shift due to the natural walnut stock and the weather being all over the place.

So many foolishly judge this Calibre without ever having used a good one themselves

[gbal]

Was shooting the Hornet on paper at 360 yds the other day ( lets just say it convinced me this calibre has so much more to offer) Mine is in bits presently awaiting re-build coz I just bedded the action with pillars as I have been getting a tad of shift due to the natural walnut stock and the weather being all over the place.

So many foolishly judge this Calibre without ever having used a good one themselves

What would be an good loading (bullet,velocity) for an experienced handloader, interested in realising the Hornet's modern potential?

Gbal

[pork chop]

Was shooting the Hornet on paper at 360 yds the other day ( lets just say it convinced me this calibre has so much more to offer) Mine is in bits presently awaiting re-build coz I just bedded the action with pillars as I have been getting a tad of shift due to the natural walnut stock and the weather being all over the place.

So many foolishly judge this Calibre without ever having used a good one themselves

come on kent thats not good enough what size groups did you get

[204 rem]

About the size of a dustbin lid I bet ha ......only messing mate. We hornet shooters Must stick together

[kent]

come on kent thats not good enough what size groups did you get

 

I was avoiding saying as you get so many doubters when it comes to the hornet, As good as anything I have ever shot but you need to pick your day as the dope is significantly more. Today its hot and still and I should love to have a go this eve but the darn Ejector spring is missing following the post bedding rebuild it pinged off somewhere in the kitchen

[pork chop]

 

I was avoiding saying as you get so many doubters when it comes to the hornet, As good as anything I have ever shot but you need to pick your day as the dope is significantly more. Today its hot and still and I should love to have a go this eve but the darn Ejector spring is missing following the post bedding rebuild it pinged off somewhere in the kitchen

yes i know where your coming from some people just love to harp on about hit % rates and all that and can't accept someone just having some fun,but now i'm done with all that as it's makin me feel as not to bother posting ,anyway going to push mine a bit more at the weekend maybe i'll give it a go at 400/500 if the scope will do it just for the lols,good luck finding that spring

[Andrew]

yes i know where your coming from some people just love to harp on about hit % rates and all that and can't accept someone just having some fun,but now i'm done with all that as it's makin me feel as not to bother posting ,anyway going to push mine a bit more at the weekend maybe i'll give it a go at 400/500 if the scope will do it just for the lols,good luck finding that spring

 

You would love prairiedogging with a Hornet. Just an eye and a brow staring at you at 150-200 yards. Or lying flat on a hole at 200 yards giving a vertical window of 2 inches. Do you take 300 and 400 yards shots regularly? No. But it's not impossible. My farthest cold bore shot on a dog was 365 yards, give or take. ~Andrew

[kent]

yes i know where your coming from some people just love to harp on about hit % rates and all that and can't accept someone just having some fun,but now i'm done with all that as it's makin me feel as not to bother posting ,anyway going to push mine a bit more at the weekend maybe i'll give it a go at 400/500 if the scope will do it just for the lols,good luck finding that spring

 

what needs to be accepted is many BS about their ability on forums and many get all uppity if they cannot achieve the standards some might. I don't personally record my hit percentage rates (with rifle) I expect to hit all quarry and get all fractious and look for excuses when I miss though. Is my post any more credible if I state my claim and attract doubters or inadequates? I am as such learning to keep my mouth shut on certain matters beyond their comprehension, though luckily that said we have enough that can on here.

If your running any reasonable scope correctly mounted I doubt you will have issues whatsoever at 400, I cant do 500 here off the drive coz there is a dip until I get much further out, but I suspect you will see a very much sharper deteriation. When I say the biggest issue is the dope I mean it switching not dialling it in. Small wind changes cannot be shot through and the effect of the topography of my ground mean dope data is but a loose guide. my ranges are often a little wacky when I am paper punching due to finding the best and safest spots to pop a target due to this.

One does needs to get away from the "supped up rimfire" state of mind with the Hornet, its more capable than even its devotees give it credit for. Sure respect its limitations for first shot kills on live quarry at the extended ranges but there is no wrong doing in finding how it will fair on steel, old fruit or paper.

[gbal]

what needs to be accepted is many BS about their ability on forums and many get all uppity if they cannot achieve the standards some might. I don't personally record my hit percentage rates (with rifle) I expect to hit all quarry and get all fractious and look for excuses when I miss though. Is my post any more credible if I state my claim and attract doubters or inadequates? I am as such learning to keep my mouth shut on certain matters beyond their comprehension, though luckily that said we have enough that can on here.

If your running any reasonable scope correctly mounted I doubt you will have issues whatsoever at 400, I cant do 500 here off the drive coz there is a dip until I get much further out, but I suspect you will see a very much sharper deteriation. When I say the biggest issue is the dope I mean it switching not dialling it in. Small wind changes cannot be shot through and the effect of the topography of my ground mean dope data is but a loose guide. my ranges are often a little wacky when I am paper punching due to finding the best and safest spots to pop a target due to this.

One does needs to get away from the "supped up rimfire" state of mind with the Hornet, its more capable than even its devotees give it credit for. Sure respect its limitations for first shot kills on live quarry at the extended ranges but there is no wrong doing in finding how it will fair on steel, old fruit or paper.[/quote

 

I agree with the last sentence,at least.

I fire,and observe the results of, thousands of rounds with a spectrum of cartridges,Much of this is in the spirit of finding out what can be done on targets,of paper or talcum filled balloons,or exploding discs.Great fun-but the opposite of Winston Churchill's observation applies("There is nothing quite so exciting as to be fired upon,to no effect")-there best be some hits,even if the % is modest.The most general conclusion of all this is that conventional,accepted live quarry shooting distances are about right,and it can be much fun to find out why.

 

Gbal

[gbal]

what needs to be accepted is many BS about their ability on forums and many get all uppity if they cannot achieve the standards some might. I don't personally record my hit percentage rates (with rifle) I expect to hit all quarry and get all fractious and look for excuses when I miss though. Is my post any more credible if I state my claim and attract doubters or inadequates? I am as such learning to keep my mouth shut on certain matters beyond their comprehension, though luckily that said we have enough that can on here.

If your running any reasonable scope correctly mounted I doubt you will have issues whatsoever at 400, I cant do 500 here off the drive coz there is a dip until I get much further out, but I suspect you will see a very much sharper deteriation. When I say the biggest issue is the dope I mean it switching not dialling it in. Small wind changes cannot be shot through and the effect of the topography of my ground mean dope data is but a loose guide. my ranges are often a little wacky when I am paper punching due to finding the best and safest spots to pop a target due to this.

One does needs to get away from the "supped up rimfire" state of mind with the Hornet, its more capable than even its devotees give it credit for. Sure respect its limitations for first shot kills on live quarry at the extended ranges but there is no wrong doing in finding how it will fair on steel, old fruit or paper.[/quote

 

I agree with the last sentence,at least.

I fire,and observe the results of, thousands of rounds with a spectrum of cartridges,Much of this is in the spirit of finding out what can be done on targets,of paper or talcum filled balloons,or exploding discs.Great fun-but the opposite of Winston Churchill's observation applies("There is nothing quite so exciting as to be fired upon,to no effect")-there best be some hits,even if the % is modest.The most general conclusion of all this is that conventional,accepted live quarry shooting distances are about right,but it can be much fun to find out why.

 

Gbal

[pork chop]

kent only meant on paper at those ranges would not take a shot at live quarry with the hornet

[gbal]

only meant on paper at those ranges would not take a shot at live quarry with the hornet[/quote

 

only meant on paper at those ranges would not take a shot at live quarry with the hornet

 

Fine.Sometimes it is best to be clear,especially for new shooters,who won't have the experience.Some of all this derives from disappointment with the hyped 17HRFM on foxes.Or see the current hype for the 17 Hornet "delivers the trajectory of a traditional 55g .223 load"-yes,but exceeds the 223s wind drift and is much short on delivered energy...(true,but not mentioned,for marketing reasons?)....whatever the actual merits of the cartridge turn out to be,it's easy to see a new shooter might think it was some kind of 223 clone,from some of the advertising.

Note too,the modern reloaded Hornet has improved ballistics (bullet BC) in the range 10/15 inch at 300 yards for drop/drift (tho 30/30 by 400),whereas factory loads as likely bought by the new shooter ,can be 20/35 and 66/66 (or worse...).

This may well be why the modern reloaded Hornet deserves some renewed attention,and it's special niche,though there are ballistically better,more capable 250+ cartridges.,if that is needed.

Gbal

[Andrew]

only meant on paper at those ranges would not take a shot at live quarry with the hornet

 

My 34 grain load at 300 yards (at least on paper) has twice the energy of an HMR at 200. I read about people shooting that silly little flea flicker at 200 for rabbits and I cringe waiting for the onslaught of people criticizing the practice. It seldom happens. But then I read people diss-ing the use of the Hornet at the same ranges. It's a strange contradiction.~Andrew

[kent]

My 34 grain load at 300 yards (at least on paper) has twice the energy of an HMR at 200. I read about people shooting that silly little flea flicker at 200 for rabbits and I cringe waiting for the onslaught of people criticizing the practice. It seldom happens. But then I read people diss-ing the use of the Hornet at the same ranges. It's a strange contradiction.~Andrew

Andrew,

Strange init. I just don't get it, what is it about the hornet that attracts so many comments from folk who have never used or owned one. frankly if I had another HMR given me I should sell it the following day, mine shot well accuracy wise but some of the freakiest terminals I have ever experienced

[AnthonyR]

Lots of HMR bashing on this thread, I would be the first to admit the ammo has definitely gone off the boil in recent years but my HMR will still deliver 1/2 MOA at 100 yards most of the time, you really do have to accept the odd flyer, most of the time I can even hear the flyers when I pull the trigger, many but not all will have a split neck. It pays to remember that at the end of the day it is only a rimfire!!!

 

The other key point for me is round count & cost, I put over 1,000 through my HMR last year and in some years have been over 2,000, would I want to buy this quantity of CF ammo - no bloody way, would I want to reload that quantity - you must be joking, I have much better things to do with my time.

 

I use mine mostly for rabbits out 150+ yards and up to that range it works well on all but the windiest nights, when combined with NV it really is a lethal combo, much much more useful than a 22lr for me which are far too loopy for NV use IMO. I nearly always have a CF to hand if Charlie pays a visit as it really isn't a suitable fox calibre.

[Andrew]

Lots of HMR bashing on this thread, I would be the first to admit the ammo has definitely gone off the boil in recent years but my HMR will still deliver 1/2 MOA at 100 yards most of the time, you really do have to accept the odd flyer, most of the time I can even hear the flyers when I pull the trigger, many but not all will have a split neck. It pays to remember that at the end of the day it is only a rimfire!!!

 

The other key point for me is round count & cost, I put over 1,000 through my HMR last year and in some years have been over 2,000, would I want to buy this quantity of CF ammo - no bloody way, would I want to reload that quantity - you must be joking, I have much better things to do with my time.

 

I use mine mostly for rabbits out 150+ yards and up to that range it works well on all but the windiest nights, when combined with NV it really is a lethal combo, much much more useful than a 22lr for me which are far too loopy for NV use IMO. I nearly always have a CF to hand if Charlie pays a visit as it really isn't a suitable fox calibre.

 

If I have a crab with the 17HMR it's with the people who make it. Cracked necks are not normal. Squib loads are not the norm. Why should you deal with gross fliers?? Early HMR ammo had none of these maladies. It built the reputation of the HMR which still lingers today. Now the company has abandoned its customers by producing shoddy ammo and convincing them that it's "to be expected". If it wasn't for such apologetic complacency there would be much more bashing of the HMR as it it produced today. I shot the prototype HMR before it was available on the market. It was one amazing round. I have seen it turn to crap. How should I feel about it? What good things can i say?

 

As to talking about it's performance at 200 yards: You can't beat the facts. It has 78 ft/lbs of energy. At the same distance the 40 grain 22WMR at 1940 fps has 122 ft/lbs and better penetration. At distance, it is a weak sister but as you say, it is a rimfire. Which somehow doesn't stop people from shooting it at extended ranges and then beating up Hornet shooters for shooting at the same distances despite the fact that a 34/35 grain Hornet loading arrives at 200 yards with almost 300 ft/lbs of energy!

 

As as to cost: You reload for the Hornet, Amigo. Reload.

Try it, you'll like it.~Andrew

[kent]

 

If I have a crab with the 17HMR it's with the people who make it. Cracked necks are not normal. Squib loads are not the norm. Why should you deal with gross fliers?? Early HMR ammo had none of these maladies. It built the reputation of the HMR which still lingers today. Now the company has abandoned its customers by producing shoddy ammo and convincing them that it's "to be expected". If it wasn't for such apologetic complacency there would be much more bashing of the HMR as it it produced today. I shot the prototype HMR before it was available on the market. It was one amazing round. I have seen it turn to crap. How should I feel about it? What good things can i say?

 

As to talking about it's performance at 200 yards: You can't beat the facts. It has 78 ft/lbs of energy. At the same distance the 40 grain 22WMR at 1940 fps has 122 ft/lbs and better penetration. At distance, it is a weak sister but as you say, it is a rimfire. Which somehow doesn't stop people from shooting it at extended ranges and then beating up Hornet shooters for shooting at the same distances despite the fact that a 34/35 grain Hornet loading arrives at 200 yards with almost 300 ft/lbs of energy!

 

As as to cost: You reload for the Hornet, Amigo. Reload.

Try it, you'll like it.~Andrew

 

Well said, I understand why you use lighter pills but I favour a 45 grn @ 2900 fps, the muzzle and also down range energy rises somewhat further again then. If ever there was a misunderstood round its the .22 Hornet

[kent]

Lots of HMR bashing on this thread, I would be the first to admit the ammo has definitely gone off the boil in recent years but my HMR will still deliver 1/2 MOA at 100 yards most of the time, you really do have to accept the odd flyer, most of the time I can even hear the flyers when I pull the trigger, many but not all will have a split neck. It pays to remember that at the end of the day it is only a rimfire!!!

 

The other key point for me is round count & cost, I put over 1,000 through my HMR last year and in some years have been over 2,000, would I want to buy this quantity of CF ammo - no bloody way, would I want to reload that quantity - you must be joking, I have much better things to do with my time.

 

I use mine mostly for rabbits out 150+ yards and up to that range it works well on all but the windiest nights, when combined with NV it really is a lethal combo, much much more useful than a 22lr for me which are far too loopy for NV use IMO. I nearly always have a CF to hand if Charlie pays a visit as it really isn't a suitable fox calibre.

 

Yet most club shooters attending weekly will put 1-2,000 rounds a year through their centre fires, based on 20-40 per week. I load all mine hornet on hand dies and arbour press and don't find such an amount that time consuming, now if I was really shooting 100 + each and every week that would add up to over 5,000 and that's rimfire territory to me and a .22 lr at that on cost basis alone. In the uk hand loading the Hornet equates to HMR cost yet you get more energy (without it being excessive) better wind by far and less pronounced trajectory with way better predictable terminals. There is nothing a HMR can do that a hornet cannot in practical terms in the field, yet the reverse cannot be said. Early days I thought I might need reduced power rounds for edible game in the hornet yet I am happy to report that you don't

I was lucky with my old HMR I never got any dodgy ammo as regards split necks and fliers yet this seems common now- I shouldn't stand for it personally, it doesn't add up to worthwhile against hand loading and the hornet's advantages

[Andrew]

 

Well said, I understand why you use lighter pills but I favour a 45 grn @ 2900 fps, the muzzle and also down range energy rises somewhat further again then. If ever there was a misunderstood round its the .22 Hornet

 

I use the lighter bullets for the most part. I do use a 46 grain Winchester HP when I get in the mood. I get 2870 fps IIRC and it shoots about 5/8 inch. I shoot them largely because I have almost 2K of them. At one time they were silly cheap so I bought 2000. I think it cost me $136 for the lot. That bullet aside, I sometimes load the Sierra 40 grain HP that I use in the 218 Bee but, like the 40 grain V-Max, it's a single shot proposition. The Winchesters, oddly, do fit the magazine.

 

Accuracy from the 33 grain VM, the 34 grain Dog town, and the 35 grain VM is very good. Any of these will shoot 1/2 MOA. Prairiedogs are small targets and very light skinned. A hit with one of these generates explosive results and no screamers bouncing off the prairie towards livestock. The Winchesters will ruin a PD's day just as well as the lighter bullets but tends to carry through.~Andrew

[gbal]

Gentlemen,this is becoming a popular thread,and often informative.As it was a bit windy up here yesterday,I though that shooting the breeze might be more useful than trying to shoot through it,but take seriously the point that facts matter-though they may need some interpretation and comment-but that's why this is a discussion.But lets start with the facts(all the facts is not possible).The data that follow are those for commercially available loaded ammunition-we can add on handloads-but this is a start,not controversial and in the public domain(Forker Ammo and ballistics,4th ed and to known SAAMI specs,just as base line.Diistances are in yards,drop/drift in inches, rounded up or down to nearest inch,energy in ftlb;and all this generally the best available-there is variety.

 

17HMR 17g@2550 vmax BC.125 100 125 150 175 200

0 -1 -2.6 -5.2 -8.5

3 5 7.5 10.5 14

135 115 100 85 75

 

22mag 40@ 1875 BC.12 0 -2.2 -5.5 -11 -17

5 8 11 17 20

165 140 120 105 95

 

100 200 300 400 500y

 

Hornet Hornady 8302 +3 0 -17 -62 -147

35@3100 BC.110 3 13.5 36 71 115

400 200 100 66 50

 

Hornet Nosler 0291 +3 0 -10.5 -32 -71

40@2800 BC.221 1.5 6.5 16 31 52

530 380 270 185 131

 

223 Hornady8325 +1 0 -5.5 -18 -39

40 vmax@3800 BC.200 1.2 5 12 23 39

937 677 479 330 221

 

 

 

Handloading can improve all the cf figures,at unknown increases in pressure etc (never measured),if presumed safe in practice?

 

Note the dramatic improvement in Hornet when a bullet with double the BC is used.

 

There seems a clear distinction into two categories-rf and CF-in terms of performance.

 

All seem absolutely fine for rabbits (tho it seems low to me,12 ft lb or less allegedly is enough)

Alas,we have no such guidline for fox and this is a clear example of where interpretation-based on experience -comes in-maybe 75-100ftlbs,but discuss! Here is where effectve energy and range start to interact.

Some loaded ammo is mch worse than these data-eg for Hornet the S&B 45g SP loadinghas a 500y drift/drop of 231/144 inches.And of course,none of the ballistic data addresses the crucial issue of rifle accuracy-this will vary,perhaps considerably-put these two together,and we can see that the casual user of an old worn Hornet with S&B ammo,might have different experiences and opinions to a modern experienced reloader with an accurate rifle,and plenty practice.You can see what I meant by saying that some interpretation and comment has to be in the mix-you will see plenty other such issues.

It would be very helpful,I think,to include info on bullets-BC if possible,in giving examples of reloading performance,given the clear and major differences for the Hornet,especially.At least,fast /slow twists don't come in-or will they?!

 

OK-discuss!! I need a coffee-2 teaspoons Nescafe Azuro,300 cc off boil water,drizzle of cravendale full cream milk.

 

Gbal