FAC Wording Interpretation

[sandersj89]

Well the good news is I got my FAC back from a 1:1 variation, removing a .22LR and adding a slot for .243. As such I now have a FAC for .17HMR and .243.

 

Posted 1:1 forms on the 9th of January, so not a bad turn around by Sussex.

 

I originally applied for the variation for the .243 so I could get a centre fire suitable for both foxing and deer. Sussex police, my licensing authority, did not have a problem for a .243 for foxing but ask me to attend a DSC1 for the deer option.

 

(Something I was not bothered about as I always intended doing a DSC at some point, along with some hands on mentoring.)

 

My FAC has today come back with the additional conditions worded as such:

 

5. The (I) .17HMR CZ Rifle and sound Moderator (IIb & IIb) .243 rifle and sound moderator and ammunition shall be used for shooting (I) Vermin & Fox (IIa) Fox (IIb) Deer whilst attending a DSC Level 1 course at (the name of the centre I am attending in March) and for zeroing on ranges, or land deemed suitable by the chief constable of police for the area where the land is situated and over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot.

 

6. The certificate holder may posses, purchase or acquire expanding ammo, or the missiles of such ammo, in the calibres authorised by this certificate and use only in connection with (a) the lawful shooting of deer ( the shooting of vermin or, in connection with the management of any estate, other wildlife.

 

As I read it:

.17HMR is fine for Vermin and Fox

.243 is fine for Fox

 

I, once I have completed the DSC1, can then apply for my ticket to be revised to cover deer on my permissions.

 

This is not an open ticket

 

Does that sound about right?

 

Thanks

 

Jerry

PS, trip planned to Sportmans at Exeter for Saterday, could be an expensive day!

[kip270]

Good news Jerry

 

It really bugs me when they say that about your intentions for Deer Stalking, as it is not law for the DSC1/2 but they are now insisting on people doing it before they will grant the option for Deer. This is total bull and as long as you have Deer present on your ground or have booked to do some Stalking they cannot refuse to grant you the condition for Deer.

 

How did people get rifle's for Stalking before the DSC certificate came along

 

What rifle have you got your eye on then????

[baldie]

While ever shooters put up with it, the police will make up the rules as they go along, and all of a sudden we all will wake up, and have to pay for courses , for everything. I personally would have made them grant it without the dsc1, as what they have done is not legal.If you have deer, and permission, to shoot them, and already have an fac, they CANNOT refuse it, nor can they legally add conditions.

[Vermincinerator]

Kip is right,

They cannot insist on a DSC1 as a condition of granting you a 243 or any other calibre for shooting deer.

If it does not bother you then fair enough but it is because applicants accept this condition so readily that they impose it as a condition of allowing deer shooting.

 

Ian.

[foxing2night]

They do not have the right to enforce this apon you!!! As has been said, By the others on this forum

 

I would go back to them and tell them what you want!!! not what they want??

 

Let us know how you get on,,,,,

F2n

[Alycidon]

Another point is that meanwhile if you book a day deer stalking somewhere you are not tecnically allowed to use your own rifle.

 

In a level I you do not actually shoot at a live deer but a wooden cut out target, you only shoot live deer as part of level 2. So restricting you to being able to shoot deer only on your level 1 course is uttter drivel. The person who has put that on there has never done a level 1 course.

 

Get BASC involved, they love situations like this.

 

A

[silentsoulsleave308holes]

no it is not law but it is how your local interpret the law and thats how they can bend it in a court

 

it stinks a little but at the same time can be a good thing as well

 

I have no doubt you are a competent person and very safe, do what they ask to keep them on your side and you in their good boy books and in the near future you can ask them to bend rules to suit you

 

after completion and getting what you want you will look back and be pleased and proud of what you have achieved and I can promise you that you will feel that although the b.d.s are only out for your money and have managed to convince the police of this, that there is a need for training such as this for all the knobs that do things like go shooting deer with their 22rf coz they think their license says they can or shoot in the air up at birds and tree rats with 22rf or I have even heard of people doing it with small centre fire etc etc etc

 

I wish you fun and success with your deer and look forward to you posting pics and info on the course

 

ja

[sandersj89]

I can see the points raised here, and in part agree with you. But, and this is important to me, I would not be happy to go out and shoot a deer without:

 

a) Being comfortable with all the legal requirements deer shooting entails, I am more than happy to shoot foxes as I have done so for a long time, but a deer, is a much larger beast, I want to do the best I can for the beast.

The results of my deer shooting will enter the food chain, I am fine with dealing ground and flying game, been shooting for over 25 years, but I have never had to deal with deer, the DSC will give me some insight there. Yes I know it is not a full game handling qualification but it does go some way.

c) I want to do the theory, I could sort out a mentor, indeed I know a number of stalkers, but I want to make sure I know the book before I try and interpret it for myself.

 

Also I have a good relationship with my FEO, I am not going to rock the boat. He knows me, he knows I am safe, as far as he can tell from sitting talking to me in the kitchen on renewals, he has pushed through my initial FAC and this variation in good time compared to normal. I fully expect him to open my certificate up soon.

 

I will also give you another angle, from the other side of the fence so to speak. One of my permissions is my families own land. In effect I am a land owner. From the point of view of a responsible land owner I can see the advantage of a DSC qualification.

 

We live in a changing world, I want to do my best by the quarry, by the landowner and by the powers that be.

 

If I want to apply for another calibre in the future I want a good relationship with those in the know and those that can say yes. I am happy to do the DSC, when I pass I will feel more confident in my abilities. I still need to back that up with practical application but I will be on the right track

 

Jerry

[dogfox]

Why can you shoot a fox or vemin with the 243 but you can not shoot a deer!!!!

[Guest rogern]

Talk to BASC

 

The condition you have re DMQ/DSC is utter b***ocks

There is nothing in Home Office guidelines to CPO's to suggest they can insist on it.

 

This is yet another case of us lot lying down and being walked on.

 

Talk to BASC

 

PS. If you intend staying with deer you should do both DSC's, I reckon that in a couple of years every landowner will insist.

Paranioa maybe but the Forestry Commission Scotland have said that any syndicate member on thier leases that does not have level 2 by this year end will not be allowed on the ground!

[njc110381]

The DSC bit does bug me a little too. They tried it on my application but I managed to get a mentor condition instead. It doesn't do a lot for safety (especially as you can shoot fox without a DSC, with the same rifle). It teaches you a lot about the rules of Deer shooting which I guess is important. The only bit I really struggle with is remembering the seasons, but I have them written on a card so I can check what's ok before I go out. For the short term, I can't see why that should be a problem?

 

If you're happy doing the DSC then fair enough, but it shouldn't be a condition really.

 

What .243 are you going to buy?