Tactical .308 rifles.

[craigyboy]

Been looking around for a while now for a new rifle and havent been able to decide what I want to get, I was gonna get another varmint rifle but on really thinking about it the tac20 is all I really need for where I shoot with max range being 500 yards and usually more like 300 yards. So I have took a turn abit after a few days at the range playing with other peoples tactical .308's, I am serioulsy considering a tactical style rifle in .308, I would love to build a rifle for it but as I am getting married this year I will have to put that on hold. So what are my other resonably priced options. I see I can pick up a Sako TRG22 in .308 for about 1600 quid, I should be able to manage that, my only concern is that the rear of the stock doesnt look like it would be good for a rear bag and I have gotten quite comfortable using one especially when load testing. Anyone got any thoughts on other tactical rifles in this price range, obvioulsy accuracy for me is the key, I will want it to shoot at least half moa or under which is partially my reason for .308 there is so much data for it out there it should be easy and as it will be restrcited the range use I will need to hit a good load quick as I wont be able to test loads when I fancy on my own ground. I have also looked into the rpa interceptor but they seem to have rasied there prices latley and at 2 grand for there single shot and nearly 2 1/2 grand for the multi shot (which I would prefer in this type of rifle) it might just be outta reach at the moment. Also this baby could be used in FTR class if I ever get the time to have a crack at it which is a bonus.Any advice or other options much appreciated.

[ejg223]

Craig, then you'd also have a deer rifle.

With a mod I take my 308 out for foxes on

our club land, not much louder than the 223

with mod.

 

edi

[Vermincinerator]

Craigy,

You wont go far wrong with a Remington Police, fit it with tactical mounts and top end optics, feed it careful handloads and you've got yourself a sub 1/2 moa rifle out of the box.

Shoot the hell out of it and as finances allow fit a new barrel, A5 stock etc....

 

Ian.

[Ronin]

Craigy

 

the TRG's are good to go and there is a way of making the cheek piece and butt fully ajustable

 

They do accept a rear bag system too is you want one.

 

Second hand AE's come up fairly often and AW's are not much more for a well used example, Rem 700 PSS is a good choice and if you want a better stock A5 or Manners T2 / T4 are very good.

 

You could also consider Tikka Tactical??

 

For me, I would go with what suits you sir!!

 

Or go custom,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[ds1]

Hi Craig,

 

I will try to limit my reply to rifles that I`ve had, used or broken - or at least played on a range with.

 

Most impressive rifle I`ve seen in a while was Rob Hunters A5 / Surgeon - have a look on precision rifles uk.

 

My kit - AI rifles - heavy and robust, there is a surprising amount of factory kit you can get for them, a very good rifle system. A second hand AW / AWP would be good if you dont mind the weight and the thumbhole stock suits you.

 

Sako - had a TRG21 - accurate, managed to brake the stock on it. expensive bits. Standard plod rifle here - most think they are ok but not the cat whiskers.

 

Blaser LRS2 - POS, only thing I will say is a least I did not buy two of them.

 

CZ 700 - Had / got one, nice but not robust like an AI and now out of production so getting spare mags etc is a pain. The new version Cz750 is a POS - a restocked Cz550 in a plastic stock (seen one dropped, stock broke).

 

Parker Hale M85 / M87 used both, very agricultural ( I think PH had parts made in Spain) again old but I liked mine.

 

RPA - really nice target action, I think on a lightish rifle and using a rear bag - a repeater Interceptor could be a very good way to go, using Sako mags. If you are lucky you could pick one up with a stainless Border cut rifled barrel (button rifled Borders have the Archer insignia). Think for fox and FTR I would them a hard look as a value for money package.

 

I went from RPA to AI because the AI is more durable and weather resistant, but on the other hand more agricultural - the trigger sucks compared to an RPA.

 

Just a few thoughts from what I`ve had.

 

David.

[baldie]

Just my opinion Craig, but having made the mistake, and got a .308 sat in the safe, i wouldn,t have the calibre for a tactical rifle, unless you are gonna be shooting against nothing else but .308,s . It sucks in the wind, and there are much better cartridges out there for a tactical rifle.....have a long look at the 6.5 bullet ballistically, then tell me you still want a .308. If you want a usable 30 cal, get a winmag, and forget about wind for the most part. There is a good rule of thumb to apply to any bullet intended for tactical/practical, windy condition use.....its gotta be doing 3000 fps ish, or it will suffer.

[menial 1]

Been looking around for a while now for a new rifle and havent been able to decide what I want to get, I was gonna get another varmint rifle but on really thinking about it the tac20 is all I really need for where I shoot with max range being 500 yards and usually more like 300 yards. So I have took a turn abit after a few days at the range playing with other peoples tactical .308's, I am serioulsy considering a tactical style rifle in .308, I would love to build a rifle for it but as I am getting married this year I will have to put that on hold. So what are my other resonably priced options. I see I can pick up a Sako TRG22 in .308 for about 1600 quid, I should be able to manage that, my only concern is that the rear of the stock doesnt look like it would be good for a rear bag and I have gotten quite comfortable using one especially when load testing. Anyone got any thoughts on other tactical rifles in this price range, obvioulsy accuracy for me is the key, I will want it to shoot at least half moa or under which is partially my reason for .308 there is so much data for it out there it should be easy and as it will be restrcited the range use I will need to hit a good load quick as I wont be able to test loads when I fancy on my own ground. I have also looked into the rpa interceptor but they seem to have rasied there prices latley and at 2 grand for there single shot and nearly 2 1/2 grand for the multi shot (which I would prefer in this type of rifle) it might just be outta reach at the moment. Also this baby could be used in FTR class if I ever get the time to have a crack at it which is a bonus.Any advice or other options much appreciated.

H/S Precision HTR. Guaranteed 1/2 moa new, and after 5000 rounds still 1/2moa. Nice clean looking rifle , the only problem is the price and the the long wait after ordering, over 2 grand and minimum 12 months wait . I shoot a riflecraft TMR1 at the moment , but I'm going to bite the bullet[no pun intended] and place an order in the spring. A years wait should fit in with the wedding plans and give you plenty of time to build your anticipation ready for a new rifle.

Regards Pete.

[ds1]

Hi craig / baldie,

 

Sort of go along with 6.5mm being a better option than 308Win most of the time (certainly less wind drift ). I did use 6.5x55 and then 260 Rem for half a dozen years. The thing was the tactical comps here have no sighters or spotted shots and tight time limits, so what is gained in wind drift can be lost if you dont see where your shots are going through the spotting scope. Then again if its sunny and or mirage, no one sees anything. My answer - 338 Lapua - big hole and 6.5mm ballistics (and with a brake 5 shots in 2 mins is not a problem).

 

You can "help" 308Win by using 155 grain Scenars if the stick will group with them.

 

At last years International plod comp here the lad who won used a Sako TRG 22 in 308 win. (but that was down to the bloke behind the trigger).

 

David.

[Ronin]

H/S Precision HTR. Guaranteed 1/2 moa new, and after 5000 rounds still 1/2moa. Nice clean looking rifle , the only problem is the price and the the long wait after ordering, over 2 grand and minimum 12 months wait . I shoot a riflecraft TMR1 at the moment , but I'm going to bite the bullet[no pun intended] and place an order in the spring. A years wait should fit in with the wedding plans and give you plenty of time to build your anticipation ready for a new rifle.

Regards Pete.

 

 

I was with a mate today who is expecting delivery of some HS rifles soon, his company are the UK importers, may be worth a try to see if thye one you want is being sent as a demo model??

[Redfox]

I'm with ds1 bigger is better ,personally I want the AI 50 cal, but may have a problem getting it on the ticket and then I would be banned from all military ranges here

Life suck sometimes.

Redfox

[Ronin]

David

 

338LM, now were are talking,,,, on with a build at present based on fast twist barrel (1-7") and LM105's, Surgeon XL - not decided on furniture yet.......

 

 

Should be nice and flat shooting though with bullet BC of .9

[ds1]

Redfox - could always play with a 50 cal over here, I know where you can shoot a mig24 with one.

 

Ronin, excellent a Surgeon XL - now Mc. Slow A5 or A5/A3 combo, one of Robs modified TRG bipods, and then it gets hard between S&B 5-25 PMII or USO. I will let you know how the Sn-9`s get on. With your bc. - how far before transonic and how much up do you need to get there?

 

Hope you can bring it to the plod comp.

 

David.

[silentsoulsleave308holes]

try one like mine

 

7.62/308

 

heavy target (heavier than remington) four groove hand lapped match bbl

 

flat based reciever bedded into a flat bottom target stock with long accs rail

 

shoots 1/2 moa without effort

 

shoots sub 1/4 with a little effort all the time

 

hits first time out past 1000 even in 20mph cross wind

 

 

COST £150

 

after shooting mine a friend took my advise and got the other one I had seen for £180

 

his shoots the same ph762 m84ish

 

if you can find one get one

[Andrew]

CB: Do you need a "Tactical" rifle? Seriously. Have a long range combat engagement planned in the future? Or do you just want the fun of spending hour upon hour figuring out loads, testing them, and then practicing with the rifle until you reach a state of proficiency that made the purchase worthwhile? Not to be a smart a-- here, but do you think the new Bride will appreciate the competition?

 

I have a Police issue Heavy barreled 700 Remington in 308 that will shoot 2" at 300M with pulled 173 grain service bullets reloaded in match brass. With serious match bullets and BR loading technique it shoots far better than my meager capabilities will allow.

 

It's fun for about an hour, every decade or so.

 

Save your money and buy something nice for the little lady. JMHO. ~Andrew

[silentsoulsleave308holes]

yeh buy her a gun then if she leaves you coz of your toys, you get another gun

[craigyboy]

Thanks lads. I know the 6.5mm is a far superior calibre in terms of ballistics but everyone at my club uses .308 so I wouldnt be outgunned too often + if I want I can get a cheap box of 50 for about £12. Andrew I have no real need for a tactical style rife but I hae no real need for alot of things I have, just like playing with guns, working up loads, testing learning trajectory is good fun + our ranges are MOD and we have fox holes to shoot from and at long range we use knockdown fig.11's, spinnning plates etc great craic and just seems well suited to a tactial style rifle, though I suppose any rifle will do this. I have been looking at a tikka varmint in 6.5x55 as well, as long as the rifle shoot half moa I would be happy.

[Redfox]

You keep tempting me Dave will have to make it ove there but it will be later in the year, too much on at the moment.

refox

[Ronin]

Redfox - could always play with a 50 cal over here, I know where you can shoot a mig24 with one.

 

Ronin, excellent a Surgeon XL - now Mc. Slow A5 or A5/A3 combo, one of Robs modified TRG bipods, and then it gets hard between S&B 5-25 PMII or USO. I will let you know how the Sn-9`s get on. With your bc. - how far before transonic and how much up do you need to get there?

 

Hope you can bring it to the plod comp.

 

David.

 

 

David dont wish to steal a thread, so i'll keep it brief (ish)

 

my estimates are working on using Vit 550 or something around this burn rate using a 1-7" twist barrel:

 

LM105 lathe turned bullets= 19 grammes / 293 grain / BC estimated at .9 (manufacturer states his is nearer to 1 or just over!)

 

Driven at 900m/s / 2900fps (which I think is doable for this case)

 

zero at 100

 

500 yards - drop 42" (8 MOA)

 

1000 yards - drop 235" (22.5 MOA)

 

1500 yards - drop 660" (42 MOA)

 

2000 yards - drop 1445" (69 MOA)

 

 

Transonic at 1116ft/sec (340.29 m/sec) which is an estimated supersonic range of 2300 yards before the bullet will destabilise as it goes sub sonic.

 

 

 

 

Compare that to the average 308 (2900 fps and 155 scenars)

 

Zero at 100

 

500 yards - 48" drop (9.25MOA)

 

1000 yards - 313" drop (33 MOA)

 

1500 yards - 1044" drop (66.5 MOA)

 

Transonic at 1300 yards

 

 

Benefits are obvious - on tragectory alone even before wind deflection is mentioned....

 

Anyway thats the plan - when it will be done is another matter - should be summer time though

[menial 1]

I was with a mate today who is expecting delivery of some HS rifles soon, his company are the UK importers, may be worth a try to see if thye one you want is being sent as a demo model??

Yes I would be interested, please keep me posted. H/S Precision HTR .308 with green stock floats my boat thank you. Could also live with stock in black.

Regards Pete.

[Ronin]

OK

 

i'll e-mail him later and ask what he is expecting in 308.

[menial 1]

Compare that to the average 308 (2900 fps and 155 scenars)

 

Zero at 100

 

500 yards - 48" drop (9.25MOA)

 

1000 yards - 313" drop (33 MOA)

 

1500 yards - 1044" drop (66.5 MOA)

 

Transonic at 1300 yards

Benefits are obvious - on tragectory alone even before wind deflection is mentioned....

 

Anyway thats the plan - when it will be done is another matter - should be summer time though

Can't dispute the ballistics Ronin but my dinky little .308 will still be supersonic at a 1000yds using just 43.5grns of Viht 140. Makes a lot of sense financially.

If .308 is inferior to big bangers with flatter trajectories then will there not be a little more challenge in loading and shooting a cal. that seems to be considered old hat by many. For many this round allows long range on the cheap with good barrel life and the chance to use as deer cal. Might be a little difficult getting deer condition on .338LM/.50BMG . Generally a good test of cal. is it's popularity with shooters in general and as cartridges go you get a lot of bang for your buck. Just my humble opinion.

Pete.

[Ronin]

Accepted Pete that the 338Lapua is not to everyones taste, I am looking at it for target work, not deer.

 

I like to develop my own cases where possible and a rifle with a 338 LM boltface is going to be a useful test piece for a few other projects I have in mind - especially as I plan it be a switch barrel (1 chambered for LM105's, 1 chambered for "normal" 250g Scenars and 1 barrel chambered for 30/338Lap Mag wildcat or maybe even a 7mm/338LM who knows)

 

Barrels are cheap, so are reamers, so i'll indulge myself in a little experimentation.

 

My 308 is very sweet to shoot, especially with 155g Scenars and 46.5g of Vit 140, but as I found to my cost last year at a comp in Slovakia, a 308 does not buck the wind like a 338...

[menial 1]

Accepted Pete that the 338Lapua is not to everyones taste, I am looking at it for target work, not deer.

 

I like to develop my own cases where possible and a rifle with a 338 LM boltface is going to be a useful test piece for a few other projects I have in mind - especially as I plan it be a switch barrel (1 chambered for LM105's, 1 chambered for "normal" 250g Scenars and 1 barrel chambered for 30/338Lap Mag wildcat or maybe even a 7mm/338LM who knows)

 

Barrels are cheap, so are reamers, so i'll indulge myself in a little experimentation.

 

My 308 is very sweet to shoot, especially with 155g Scenars and 46.5g of Vit 140, but as I found to my cost last year at a comp in Slovakia, a 308 does not buck the wind like a 338...

Just yanking your chain a little Ronin, I have a friend who shot a sniper comp. in Czecho before Xmas, he finished 7th I think shooting .338 lap mag. It seems that to compete at higher levels , this is THE calibre.

Regards Pete.

[Ronin]

Indeed,

 

I believe I attended the same comp......

[menial 1]

Indeed,

 

I believe I attended the same comp......

You'll probably know Ewan then . He lives up our way, Naseby, quite friendly for a Jock.