kent Posted July 22, 2013 Report Share Posted July 22, 2013 From my experience with unpredictable terminals with my own HMR on Crows and also surprisingly a few head shot hares, its not a gun I should use on fox. Mine left the cabinet about three years back and I doubt one will ever return The Hornet is not a gun to go and shoot 50-100 rabbits a night with regular, unless you like prepping brass (the actual loading is very quick as the powder throws very well etc) . Occasionally its fine for volume bunnies though and I might suggest if you have so many rabbits about that you shoot high numbers every week then you might want to leave the foxes alone to help with that rabbit control. .22 LR is very predictable within its limitations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bewsh Posted August 7, 2013 Report Share Posted August 7, 2013 I have a Sako Quad with all four barrels (22lr, .17M2, .22WMR, 17HMR) I have shot a lot of foxes with all of the calibres in many different places, head (front, side) chest (front side), mainly urban, golf courses, rugby clubs etc anywhere from 17yds to 150yds They all work just fine in the right circumstance The WMR was my urban fox calibre of choice for years until I got a .222 despite the distance some can run when the grass is mowed daily you will find them. some ran 5yds some ran 30yds (almost always the ones shot with the HMR, one with the M2 and one or two with the WMR) I have only ever lost one. (out of maybe 100 odd) HMR, front head shot, fox slightly above me. round hit the fox just above the eyeline and zinged off!! the lamper saw exactly what I saw 20gr Hollow Point HMR round bouncing of the skull due to unusual angle and elevation it was this that moved me to the WMR exclusively WMR outclasses the HMR in energy terms across the entire trajectory Energy. you need as much as you can get at the fox end, not the muzzle end. or just get a .222 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 7, 2013 Report Share Posted August 7, 2013 Seems a pretty bad thing to have rounds bouncing off sculls and foxes running anywhere in an "urban" environment, the thought of some do-gooder finding a wounder in their back yard in the morning and phoning the RSPCA etc makes me shiver regards a PR event its not good. Got to say though that shot in the chest with a deer rifle I have had quite a few foxes go further than you (dead on their legs, pending brain death) following a chest shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGalway Posted August 7, 2013 Report Share Posted August 7, 2013 Have a HMR for a number of years now, never shot a fox with it. Took it out a few nights ago to go looking for a fox, didn't see one. Didn't feel terribly unhappy at that result which says a lot. Knocked over a dog fox the night before with the .223, a lot more confidence in that. For some reason I would feel a lot more confident with a .22lr than HMR on fox. Possibly because I shot a few foxes with my .22lr when I had it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 7, 2013 Report Share Posted August 7, 2013 Have a HMR for a number of years now, never shot a fox with it. Took it out a few nights ago to go looking for a fox, didn't see one. Didn't feel terribly unhappy at that result which says a lot. Knocked over a dog fox the night before with the .223, a lot more confidence in that. For some reason I would feel a lot more confident with a .22lr than HMR on fox. Possibly because I shot a few foxes with my .22lr when I had it. One thing is Certain I have never had "freaky" terminal performance with a .22 LR, I had quite a few with HMR. Good hits failing to penetrate and also some failing to expand at similar ranges with small changes in impact speed making big differences. It must be hard to get good QC on such small bullets as regards jackets, bonding metallurgy etc. and its made to a price lets face it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted August 8, 2013 Report Share Posted August 8, 2013 I have a Sako Quad with all four barrels (22lr, .17M2, .22WMR, 17HMR) I have shot a lot of foxes with all of the calibres in many different places, head (front, side) chest (front side), mainly urban, golf courses, rugby clubs etc anywhere from 17yds to 150yds They all work just fine in the right circumstance The WMR was my urban fox calibre of choice for years until I got a .222 despite the distance some can run when the grass is mowed daily you will find them. some ran 5yds some ran 30yds (almost always the ones shot with the HMR, one with the M2 and one or two with the WMR) I have only ever lost one. (out of maybe 100 odd) HMR, front head shot, fox slightly above me. round hit the fox just above the eyeline and zinged off!! the lamper saw exactly what I saw 20gr Hollow Point HMR round bouncing of the skull due to unusual angle and elevation it was this that moved me to the WMR exclusively WMR outclasses the HMR in energy terms across the entire trajectory Energy. you need as much as you can get at the fox end, not the muzzle end. or just get a .222 The different commercial loadings differ a little,and especially for the choice of 22WRM,but here are the 'best' in ft lb: HMR muzzle 250 50 y 194 100y 148 150 111 200 84 WMR 324 225 156 113 90 Just on these energy data,the initial advantage of WMR is largely gone before/by 100y. It might well be that neither are very good for fox,though delivered 'knock down' might just be a little more for the larger diameter 22 bullet? And both are way ahead of the 22rf. The conclusion is supported anyhow-use a 22 cf where possible !!(the best Hornet loads will have more energy at 200 than the rfs at the muzzle,and the 222/3s just more so,even with milder loads.) Gbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tackleberry Posted August 8, 2013 Report Share Posted August 8, 2013 I have .17HMR on my ticket for fox. Both Met and Suffolk conditioned this. I have a pig farm permission where I used this calibre to cleanly dispatch 175 foxes over 6 months, two moved 2 metres and dropped, the rest were clean. Headshot. Ranges 70 - 100 metres. 5 had to receive a second shot. 17gn Hornady was used. I personally felt confident in the accuracy and humane effectiveness of my set up. Now I'm in Essex I have been advised they will not condition this calibre for fox upon renewal. BASC offer a different view. Articles in the shooting mags frequently use .17HMR for fox. It's contentious, but we all have to use common sense. Frankly, I don't see how a .22lr can be conditioned for fox. With reference to conditions, I have always had "Fox" on my ticket as a specific citing, not classed as vermin. Again a disparity between respective forces. I respect those on UKV who have a different opinion. Which is the discussion on legality of calibre for foxes, I'm certainly not aware of a specified minimum calibre as is the case with deer (I would stand to be corrected but am confident), other than the restrictions placed on a FAC. Good advice would be as done here, to have foxes as a separate reason to vermin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bewsh Posted August 10, 2013 Report Share Posted August 10, 2013 Which is the discussion on legality of calibre for foxes, I'm certainly not aware of a specified minimum calibre as is the case with deer (I would stand to be corrected but am confident), other than the restrictions placed on a FAC. Good advice would be as done here, to have foxes as a separate reason to vermin. surely that is the case already, no? 1a - Vermin, Ground game 1b - Vermin, Ground Game and Fox 1c - Deer and Fox 1d - Deer is that not the universal condition applied to calibre nationally? The mere fact that there are two separate categories that specify fox leaves anyone shooting a fox without condition open to prosecution. Now I don't believe this will ever happen and will wager more foxes have been shot with .22lr than any other single calibre..... never been through courts and never will IMO but it is the reason i specifically asked for all my rimfires to be 1b Scotland (at least L& work on the principle that if you have "1d - Deer" that it covers you to shoot anything smaller should the occasion arise. But it is NOT the "good reason" for owning the rifle. I can shoot foxes and crows with my .270 and 300WM should I desire but that is not the reason I got them (and I have that in writing!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted August 10, 2013 Report Share Posted August 10, 2013 surely that is the case already, no? 1a - Vermin, Ground game 1b - Vermin, Ground Game and Fox 1c - Deer and Fox 1d - Deer is that not the universal condition applied to calibre nationally? NO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
223magic Posted August 10, 2013 Report Share Posted August 10, 2013 Have some respect for the animal and use a calibre big enough to kill it with a body shot. The .17 hmr is not suitable . +1 for Baldies reply, now cant we give this subject a rest ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bewsh Posted August 16, 2013 Report Share Posted August 16, 2013 NO! what does everyone else have? mine stayed the same between Northumbria and L&B in Scotland pretty sure it was the same 1a-1d in Cambridgeshire back in the 90's too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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