The wildcat moderator

[col48]

Well I have been asked again to review a moderator,this time its the wildcat predictor 8. But this time I did things a little different,I actually went to see the hole manufacturing process,All the parts are made in house,right here in the UK, Andrew the owner of wildcat moderators says that at the moment there cnc lathes and cnc milling machines are running at about 75% capacity. The hole operations seemed to be running very smooth, the only thing that is not done in house is the finish on the mods,so if you ever found yourself in the position of needing spare parts,then getting them should be no problem at all.The predator is a over barrel moderator,and is very very well made,as soon as you pick one up you can tell how well made they are,but there is a difference, this moderator is available in so many different configurations,Lets say you are off up the hill for a stalk, and weight is an issue, you pop on the 4 stack baffle set,this keeps weight and length down to a minimum,There is all so a 8 baffle stack, this is for when you need better sound suppression,say just for normal foxing situations,And the 12 baffle stack is for when you are in them real noise sense areas. The 4 baffle stack protrudes 70mm forward .The 8 baffle stack protrudes 100mm forward.And the 12 baffle stack protrudes 130 mm forward.The Predator 8 is made to compete directly with the T8 Reflex and has the same exterior dimensions as the T8 Reflex while weighing less.Made from Stainless Steel and high grade alloy.The Predator 8 has a superior design over barrel Sound Moderator with 30mm bore to accommodate barrels of up to 29mm and can be take apart for cleaningThe Predator 8 is made to compete directly with the T8 Reflex and has the same exterior dimensions as the T8 Reflex while weighing less.

 

 

Wildcat Predator 8 Variations Specifications

Overall Length

Rear Tube Length

Overall Compact Version

212mm

112mm

Overall Styer Version

250mm

150mm

Overall Length Predator 8

300mm

200mm

Plus 1

350mm

250mm

Plus 2

400mm

300mm

Plus 3

450mm

350mm

Diameter50mm all models All versions accommodate up to 29mm barrel diameter Protrusion Forwards 4 Baffles 70mm 8 Baffles 100mm 12 Baffles 130mm WeightCompact Version 555gms Styer Version 621gms Predator 8 690gms Plus 1 768gms Plus 2 846gms Plus 3 924gms Standard Threads UNF1/2, 9/16, 5/8 UNEF1/2, 9/16, 5/8 Metric14 x 1, 15 x 1, 17 x 1, 18 x 1 with spigot Metric 15 x 1, 17 x 1 Distance required from back of thread back over barrel Compact112mm plus derlin bush 10mm Styer150mm plus derlin bush 10mmStandard200mm plus derlin bush 10mmPlus 1 250mm plus derlin bush 10mmPlus 2 300mm plus derlin bush 10mmPlus 3 400mm plus derlin bush 10mm

Order a standard Predator 8 and you will get the specification as laid out in red above in up to 420 differing permutations on this moderator design.

 

Now you would expect that all this comes at a high price,and you would be forgiven in thinking that the predator 8 is one of the high end mods,you know the £295 price bracket mods. But no it is very very reasonable,at one, I bet you will be surprised at how well they are made.now this mod is not going to be the quietest on the market, or the lightest, but I tell you what,it will take some betting for versatilely.as all the parts and permutations are available of the shelf,and are available next day.that's the benefits of being in control of your own manufacturing and having all your parts just down the road in your purpose built machine shop, and they do not build anything else in this shop,its just mods mods mods.and as soon as I get time I will let you all know what the sound retention is like she actually comes in at £215 for the 8 baffle model.I think this is very good value for money,so the next time you are in a gun shop ask to have a look at one,you never know one of the combinations might be just what you are looking for.

 

ATB

 

Colin

[grasshopper]

Just recently put a standard WP8 on my .243.

 

The shop sold me an up to .308 baffle section.They said they had sold over 40 of them to customers with .243s,and that they had no complaints....till me

 

The noise reduction was minimal,they did however(after some gentle persuasion..ie an e-mail to the supplier )exchange the baffle section for an up to .243 one.

 

This was promptly fitted to the mod,then attached the mod to the rifle and set out to re-zero...P.O.I. was exactly the same as before.

 

The noise difference...well that was massive.I have a PES on my .22 250 and this is just as quiet.

 

I for 1 am extremely happy with it.

 

GH

[shootingbags]

nice review Col I wonder if it will be made a sticky

I can't see any reason why not. Any review as long as it is fair and truthful is useful to the users of this site.

[brown dog]

she actually comes in at £215 for the 8 baffle model.I think this is very good value for money,

 

Really?

 

I think the UK silencer market is one of the finest examples of rip-off Britain....the trend was set by the outrageously over-priced T8..and we have been conditioned to accept quite ridiculous pricing of these incredibly simple pieces of engineering. I would contend that, at £215, the silencer is being marketed at about twice what would be possible whilst maintaining reasonable mark-up. At circa £100 it would be 'good value'.

[sandersj89]

Many thanks for that, I was just about to post for a recommendation for a mod for a .243.

 

Sounds a decent bit of kit.

 

Cheers

 

Jerry

[varminter]

Hi guys just a friendly note.............

Regarding moderators , if i get so much of a whiff of agro i will lift this thread!!!!!!!!!

Very sorry to say it just dont want it to turn sour like the others ,

Colin a very big thankyou for your efforts and the writeup too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for listening guys................

RAY................................... :lol:

[ejg223]

Funky, the problem is that the moderator market is very small

at the moment. Coupled with very little competition.

Let the american, german and other markets allow the use of moderators and you will

see a change as figures go up.

I work in production and we produce parts in europe cheaper and to a

higher standard than taiwan or mexico because of a higher standard

of automation.

Ask remington to produce 3 million moderators and you will see where the

price could be. I guess around $60 at wal mart.

 

edi

[brown dog]

the simple answer is if you think something is expensive dont buy it.

Thank you. Sage advice. I've written it down

 

 

edi, you have hit the nail on the head....although, as a non-US comparator, I believe T8s are already produced for around £30.

[brown dog]

Has my assertion that UK moderators are over-priced somehow personally insulted you?

 

I'm one of the 1000s of mugs that paid 200-odd pounds for the honour of owning a T8. I think it's an absolute disgrace that someone has the brass neck to charge that for a £30 pound disposable item. How did he get away with it? There was no alternative on the market...no competition.

 

Why do prices remain at that level, despite increased competition? Brit shooters have been conditioned into seeing £200 as 'ballpark' for a (£30) moderator. ...and pricing is driven by what people will pay.

[col48]

Funky, the problem is that the moderator market is very small

at the moment. Coupled with very little competition.

Let the american, german and other markets allow the use of moderators and you will

see a change as figures go up.

I work in production and we produce parts in europe cheaper and to a

higher standard than taiwan or mexico because of a higher standard

of automation.

Ask remington to produce 3 million moderators and you will see where the

price could be. I guess around $60 at wal mart.

 

edi

 

Edi

ask me to produce 3 million mods and see what the price would be,and ask Andrew from wildcat and see how the price drops.

with that kind of talk any one can cut down the price.

the UK is a small insignificant market in shooting terms,

i think the figures for the T8 was 8 thousand units a year

ATB

Colin

[col48]

Has my assertion that UK moderators are over-priced somehow personally insulted you?

 

I'm one of the 1000s of mugs that paid 200-odd pounds for the honour of owning a T8. I think it's an absolute disgrace that someone has the brass neck to charge that for a £30 pound disposable item. How did he get away with it? There was no alternative on the market...no competition.

 

Why do prices remain at that level, despite increased competition? Brit shooters have been conditioned into seeing £200 as 'ballpark' for a (£30) moderator. ...and pricing is driven by what people will pay.

 

one thing to remember is with out the reflex mod coming on to the UK market,none of us would have one now,

what people fail to rember when Jackson rifles brought the reflex in to the UK,nearly no one was aloud one,and i would say that part of your £200 was spent fighting the bureaucracy of this country,and getting the law and attitudes changed.

the way i saw it he took a massive gamble and it payed off.i think Jackson rifles is owed a dept of gratitude not a slagging off.

just the way i see it

 

ATB

Colin

[Guest Doc]

Hi

 

I'm of the same opinion as Browndog. We are being ripped off big time.

 

FunkyBunch

 

VAT is an irrelevance to any business as its not a cost. Its a levy charged out and claimed back full stop. Its the consumer who ultimately pays the VAT. Whats this 40% tax we are supposedly being charged? Unless its the 40% income tax band to which you refer, what relevance that has on the cost of goods you'll need to explain to me. VAT on engineering products is charged at the standard rate of 17.5% Machinery costs along with is depreciation are tax deductible to any business, as are heating and lighting along with rent. They are term operating costs.

 

I'm all in favour of any business making a reasonable profit. I am against companies exploiting the market and the consumer though. Which is what we have here.

 

Doc

[tulkyuk]

What is it with you lot and sound moderators

 

 

The man only wanted to put a review on

[Guest Doc]

reagrding the 40% tax you will find people who work for them self and turn over a fair chunk of money is in that bracket,so evey £ made 40p is taken away,sad isnt it

 

That not true, only the income over the 40% threshold is taxed at 40%. And no its not sad. IMO Its just a fact of life for anyone living and working in the UK. The self employed don't have to suffer disproportionately at the hands of the tax man. Far from it. All they need to do is avail themselves of the services of a good accountant or tax consultant.

Before you ask, no I'm neither an accountant or tax consultant. Or an employee of HMRC

 

As a consumer you have every right to tell some one what is a reasonable profit. You don't have to buy it if you think you're being ripped off.

 

Doc

[njc110381]

I'm a fan of these mods too. They look pretty good, and Andy Banner is a great guy to deal with. I bought my Tikka from him. He really will do anything to help you out if he can. I was really pleased with the service and had a very long chat with him about his shooting expeiences. Getting licked half to death by his dog every time I tried to put my boots on was slightly annoying, but I was made to feel welcome and didn't feel rushed at all. Sorting it all out for me the day before I went stalking (at 7pm on a Sunday), that makes him a top bloke in my view!

[brown dog]

Deleted...I was even boring myself

[col48]

Deleted...I was even boring myself

 

 

hi brown dog

 

i have not put a bullet through it yet,that will come in my next right up

 

have you actual seen a wild cat mod???

 

if so have you stripped one down????

 

they are a lot more complected than your normal run of the mill mod,

 

 

ATB

Colin

[brown dog]

hi brown dog

 

i have not put a bullet through it yet,that will come in my next right up

 

have you actual seen a wild cat mod???

 

if so have you stripped one down????

 

they are a lot more complected than your normal run of the mill mod,

ATB

Colin

 

Colin,

 

This is going to sound like a stupid answer; but 'I think so' to both the above. They all look so similar! If the one I handled (and owned for about 30 minutes about 2-3 years ago...but that's another story!) was a wildcat it was different internally to the one you've pictured -an earlier model?

 

I'm sure build quality is excellent, and from a 'different ways of joining pipes' engineering standpoint, very clever. But the internals pictured don't strike me as having been designed from an acoustic engineering point of view, rather, they look like another variation on the simple 'tube and washers' concept.....but I've only been trained on gas flow in relation to muzzle brakes so I'm outside my comfort zone.....but, on intuition, I would contrast the internals with those found within a jet-z CQB.

 

It'll be interesting to see how it compares (in dB reduction terms) to a T8...or a jet-z

 

...if someone starts making a strippable jet-z (for about £100 ) the T8'll be going in the bin

 

ATB

 

Matt

[col48]

Colin,

 

This is going to sound like a stupid answer; but 'I think so' to both the above. They all look so similar! If the one I handled (and owned for about 30 minutes about 2-3 years ago...but that's another story!) was a wildcat it was different internally to the one you've pictured -an earlier model?

 

I'm sure build quality is excellent, and from a 'different ways of joining pipes' engineering standpoint, very clever. But the internals pictured don't strike me as having been designed from an acoustic engineering point of view, rather, they look like another variation on the simple 'tube and washers' concept.....but I've only been trained on gas flow in relation to muzzle brakes so I'm outside my comfort zone.....but, on intuition, I would contrast the internals with those found within a jet-z CQB.

 

It'll be interesting to see how it compares (in dB reduction terms) to a T8...or a jet-z

 

...if someone starts making a strippable jet-z (for about £100 ) the T8'll be going in the bin

 

ATB

 

Matt

 

hi mat

the early models in so many mods have all had short comings,

i personally will not publish sound readings,but i do have sound equipment.the only safe way to test a moderator is to the mill standard, ( http://hfetag.dtic.mil/docs-hfs/mil-std-1474d.pdfthis )is what all moderators should be tested to,as there are so many ways to cheat the sound readings, if the sound equipment is a bit closer,the back stop and on and on and on.

so i will not be drawn in to the hole db thing even by PM.

if the mod saves your haring and it reducers recoil its really done its job.like i said in the wright up,Andrew did not design this mod to be the lightest,or even the quietest, it was designed to challenge the T8,as this is still to date the best selling moderator in the UK.

now if it is vastly over priced i know 8 thousand people a year still buy them.and it is not through there being no choice,as i said there is new mods out there still to come,and variety is the spice of life,

i think it is a good thing that there is now a choice, and yet another moderator that is around the £200 price range,instead of the being in the top end £300 range,

ATB

Colin

[ejg223]

Col, first of all nice write up.

Just as we all notice people seem to be a bit annoyed with

the costs of moderators. Which is a good thing and through selected

purchasing the buyers will eventually force the prices down.

Price = what the market is prepared to pay.

This price cribbing also creates demand, demand for a lower priced mod.

 

If a new mod manufacturer comes joins the market tomorrow

he will have to have either a cheaper or better or cheaper and better

product to offer otherwise he can't recon with a decent market share.

So even if the figures do not rise we could expect price reductions for a

standard mod. The high end mod could increase in price.

 

At the prices at the moment it's touch and go if a desperate workshop

wouldn't make a one off mod. You'd make one in 8hrs.

 

 

edi

[17 Rem]

one thing to remember is with out the reflex mod coming on to the UK market,none of us would have one now,

what people fail to rember when Jackson rifles brought the reflex in to the UK,nearly no one was aloud one,and i would say that part of your £200 was spent fighting the bureaucracy of this country,and getting the law and attitudes changed.

the way i saw it he took a massive gamble and it payed off.i think Jackson rifles is owed a dept of gratitude not a slagging off.

just the way i see it

 

ATB

Colin

 

Col, not true, mate.

The Vaimeco, LEI and a little later the JLS Stalker moderators were available before the T8. I had a full-bore moderator years before the T8 was available through Jacksons. All I had to do was show good reason to own one, just as I showed i had good reason to own my rifles.

Peter Jackson didn't get the law changed. The law was not changed to allow moderators to become more readily available- all that happened was that the Association of Chief Police Officers altered the guidelines they used to apply the Firearms Acts. They did that as they were advised that refusing moderators to shooters was likely to lead to a series of expensive compensation payouts to shooters with damaged hearing.

[Zig]

Has my assertion that UK moderators are over-priced somehow personally insulted you?

 

I'm one of the 1000s of mugs that paid 200-odd pounds for the honour of owning a T8. I think it's an absolute disgrace that someone has the brass neck to charge that for a £30 pound disposable item. How did he get away with it? There was no alternative on the market...no competition.

 

Why do prices remain at that level, despite increased competition? Brit shooters have been conditioned into seeing £200 as 'ballpark' for a (£30) moderator. ...and pricing is driven by what people will pay.

 

I would sugest you take a look at a Predatpor 8. It is a piece of precision machining.

Predator 8 requires minimum 2 CNCs, 1 lathe and 1 miller, and out sourced advanced finishing tecniques for the coatings.

It is an engineering piece and in a real wourld shoud be £350.

Due to numbers produced it is at a very good price to the market.

If you work out the cost of machines, materials , Workshop, Workshop costs and labour advertising 2 profit margins Trade and Retail along with vat you would not even look at spending the investment.

Remember the Retail price minus vat is £183

Try doing some costing your self and to help we have just purchased a 3rd cnc at a price of £50,000 plus vat

A T8 is a metal fabrication, all you need is a set of patterns and a welding set up to make the T8.

[col48]

I would sugest you take a look at a Predatpor 8. It is a piece of precision machining.

Predator 8 requires minimum 2 CNCs, 1 lathe and 1 miller, and out sourced advanced finishing tecniques for the coatings.

It is an engineering piece and in a real wourld shoud be £350.

Due to numbers produced it is at a very good price to the market.

If you work out the cost of machines, materials , Workshop, Workshop costs and labour advertising 2 profit margins Trade and Retail along with vat you would not even look at spending the investment.

Remember the Retail price minus vat is £183

Try doing some costing your self and to help we have just purchased a 3rd cnc at a price of £50,000 plus vat

A T8 is a metal fabrication, all you need is a set of patterns and a welding set up to make the T8.

 

hi foxy

nice to have you on board.

now me not coming from an engineering back ground, and all so having bin to your factory and seen first had the amount of work that goes in to one of your mods, i will hazered a guess that there is more machine work and different operations in one of your mods than a A-TEC and stealth both put together.

so i ask you what is expensive.

but this mod is not aimed at taking the crown of the quietest,or the lightest, its just a well made well designed and well manufactured mod.

just take it for what it is, and i think those of you who have not seen one will be surprised.

ATB

Colin

[Alycidon]

I would sugest you take a look at a Predatpor 8. It is a piece of precision machining.

Predator 8 requires minimum 2 CNCs, 1 lathe and 1 miller, and out sourced advanced finishing tecniques for the coatings.

It is an engineering piece and in a real wourld shoud be £350.

Due to numbers produced it is at a very good price to the market.

If you work out the cost of machines, materials , Workshop, Workshop costs and labour advertising 2 profit margins Trade and Retail along with vat you would not even look at spending the investment.

Remember the Retail price minus vat is £183

Try doing some costing your self and to help we have just purchased a 3rd cnc at a price of £50,000 plus vat

A T8 is a metal fabrication, all you need is a set of patterns and a welding set up to make the T8.

 

 

He does have a point and for those of us quite happy with our T8 s such as me do give us food for thought when thinking about another one for a different caliber (like me !).

 

A

[brown dog]

your wasting your time explaining mate if it costs more than a pack of 20 fag they will moan,I love these people who think you should work for free I wonder if any of them do

 

and what are your views on the price of fuel?

 

........I'm anticipating something along the lines of

 

"OPEC sets a fair price, Gordon deserves his cut and I, for one, am happy to pay"