Neck shooting

[Akeld]

What are the pro's and con's of neck shooting please?

[Swamp Donkey]

Have a look here

 

http://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/showthread.php/49512-Neck-shots?highlight=Neck+shooting+deer

[Tuck]

I take your on about deer shooting?

 

Pros: drop on the spot, instant results ideal for shooting near boundries etc...

Cons: possibly ends in injured animal, alot smaller target

 

I think the main thing here would be a persons ability and knowing limits, there are occasions and certain locations where heart/lung shots cannot be taken and if and when possible I would always go for the big bit.

Just my 2p worth

 

Rob

[Grouse]

Pros, relatively clean carcass (bar neck and straps depending on bullet/bone fragmentation), unless it goes wrong deer drops on the spot. Which can be advantageous when herd culling/culling in pre thicket spruce, where heart shot deer can run and prove difficult to locate (alternative is the high heart/high chest, which will cause an instant drop too).

 

Cons, very high margin of just paralysing deer unless spinal column is

severed (welfare issue), in the larger species, and especially at rut, it can

be difficult to pin point - unless you have a very good grasp of

deer skeletal anatomy.

 

Through my own experience, and not blowing own trumpet at all, I would usually rather take a headshot/high neck if circumstances enabled, and a chest shot wasn't presented, rather than a mid line neck shot/low neck shot. But you have to know what your capabilities are. A rear facing animal is a completely different aspect, the whole length of the neck offers a far more satisfactory target than side on/front facing.

[Gunsgobang88]

Hi,

 

I've taken neck shots but only at close range and on deer that are not alert. A neck shot gives far less margin for error (we are all human) than a heart/lung shot. When taking guests out I insist on heart/lung shots. The only exception in umpteen years was an ex SF sniper of proven (to me) ability. He achieved a headshot free standing at about 110 yards on a roe. We should all respect our quarry and only take shots that we are confident will 'grass' our beast as quickly as possible,

 

Alan

[Christian]

In a recreational stalking situation I'd be reluctant to talk about pros of a neck shot.

 

The neck is a smaller target and more mobile than the boiler room. Most shooters will easily be able to hit a paper target of that size, but even the best of shots can't predict how the deer will move. The smaller/more mobile target will mean that luck is a bigger factor in killing the animal than with a chest shot.

 

I'm not saying that I will never take a neck shot, and I'm not pointing fingers of people who do, but I personally don't see the need for it in a recreational stalking situation.

 

Famous last words...

[DaveT]

A heart / lung shot is surely best for a recreational stalker of 'normal' shooting ability.

 

The deer WILL go down & you are FAR less likely to miss or create an horrendous wound.

[Akeld]

Thanks for the link and replies, not something I'm looking at doing, more of a general interest question really

[Offroad Gary]

The neck can be quite big on some animals, and with the wrong type of bullet in not quite the right place damage can be minimal, knocked out deer but not dead. Had a moment last season i shot 2 fallow and a fox quickly, didnt bleed them, just went to get truck. As i pulled up to get the animals a doe got up and made a run for the boundry, there was me, empty 25-06 and a deer on the run! Thank god for rugby lessons and victorinox boning knives!!

[Ronin]

The only time I ever neck shoot is if the animal is facing away or directly towards me - therefore the - in the neck are vertical with less margin of error

 

Sideways on and your just asking for trouble....

[sonic]

I know a couple of professional deer culler's who will head neck shoot if possible as they're after the most venison out of their investment. But these guys go though more rounds in one day than most of us fire a year at deer. I have used neck shots but limit myself to 50 to maybe 75 yards and facing away as I think this gives the least chance of a miss placed shot. side on there is to much to go wrong. The above mentioned deer culler's have had lots of call out to deal with poachers and others mistakes, Red stags with bottom jaws missing holes in their necks. . Bullet choice for the head neck shots tends to be lighter faster expanding so that there is less chance of a through and through that normal deer loads designed to go through bone tend to do if they go through without hitting the spine.

[Ronin]

I disagree with using lighter faster bullets for neck shots on stags.

 

The stags necks are particularly thick, the skin is tougher, muscle stronger and the dense "mane"all adds to a potential disaster if using bullets which may fragment on impact leading to massive surface wounds and no damage to spine or blood flow.

 

Ive seen some horrendous wounds from the results of poachers using 22 cf on stags in my area, the animals often succumb to starvation or dehydration, an unpleasant lingering death.

 

Nothing beats a traditional soft point or copper solid for deer of any species.

[DaveT]

I know that I can drill a gnats bum off of a bipod and prone with plenty of time to set up the shot BUT.... my stalking ground seldom offers that opportunity and I invariably shoot off of sticks.

 

For my level of achievable stability in that context, rather than take a risky neck shot I would rather 'pass' if I couldn' get into a position for a decent side-on heart / lung shot.... I can always get the deer another time and I see no reason to take 'iffy' shots when you can usually get a side-on with a little patience. I now await incoming flak!!

 

A serious and honest question from me though....... apart from the arguement from professional cullers about avoiding meat damage as being the reason for neck/head shots.....why would a neck shot be required at all?

[Grouse]

A serious and honest question from me though....... apart from the arguement from professional cullers about avoiding meat damage as being the reason for neck/head shots.....why would a neck shot be required at all?

For the reasons I outlined in my first post, deer dropping on the spot when herd or family group culling (enabling multiple animals being taken rather than a chest shot run, scattering a group) or in pre thicket spruce when following up can be time consuming or night shooting. All these should be taken in context of commercial deer management within my profession.

[brown dog]

personally, I've never understood the 'meat damage" argument for neck shots when I learnt to stalk the side on heart lung was described as the 'butcher's shot' as it damages no useable meat. .......so I'm always left a bit puzzled when that's used as a reason.

 

On park deer shot from vehicles at short range (ie farming) I can understand neck shooting but I suspect on hill culls its a rather blase 'hit or miss" philosophy where the almost misses get ignored. large scale culling requires/induces a hard heart. The most reds I've shot in one go was a group of seven that ran around me. I didn't like it, it felt more like ethnic cleansing than stalking; and that's why I recognise that large scale culling isn't done by better shooters or people more able to pull off neck shots; its about people who have by necessity or choice adopted a different mindset

[DaveT]

+1 on BDs observations.

[Ronin]

Chest shot just as effective as neck, however the risk of meat damage is there if the bullet exits via a shoulder...

 

I prefer to be clinical if shooting small numbers then the starter is usually a neck, if im presented with a group of hinds, I use whatever point of aim which will get em down - starting with the lead hind.

 

Then the real work starts..

[Grouse]

Having difficulty quoting what Ronin has written above, but spot on in your analysis - in group culling or culling a family (roe and followers), it can be essential in getting the lead or dominate (almost always female) on the the ground without a "heart" dash.

 

Think Christian made a good point regarding confusion between commercial deer management and recreational deer management, I would however hope that ethics and welfare issues are paramount in both - though cases of horrendous bad practice can and have occurred in both.

[terryh]

Always an interesting question, almost verging on the Religion/politics border of polite conversation.

 

I feel it is down to your personnal beliefs and choice. I'm not a 'professional' as in my lively hood does not depend on shooting 'X' number of deer to feed the family so not in a position to comment.

 

Recreationally it would depend on the shot, distance, my postion to take the shot etc. whenever 'good' I would take a neck shot.

 

When the term 'ethics' comes up ( and not the place where shell suits and XR3i's originated) I put this in perspective with other 'ethical' decisions related to shooting I make, so find some peoples stances confusing, perhaps a bit hypocritical?

 

Always good to see others perspective and thoughts.

 

Terry

[sonic]

When is said lighter I don't mean using a varmint bullet. bullet choice is dictated by quarry's build you don't go after cape buffalo with ballistic tips. A red stag for instance vs a roe square on heart lung 100yds .243 100gn round nose through the ribs will do the job for both. now make that same shot quartering so your aim point becomes the shoulder would you choose the 243 for the red?

No better say .308 with a nosler partition.

Now lets take the same two deer at say 50yds facing away from you. There is a chance the 308 np will go straight through if you miss the spine. But a lighter softpoint would expand.

For Sika, Fallow, Red I would not use my .243 I would prefer a .270 or .308 with a bullet that will go through bone if I need it to.

 

The other thing was meat damage for a square on heart lung shot in just behind the leg and out the other you lose what half a pound or so of mince take a quartering shot that goes through the shoulder can lose you a lot more. When your shooting 20 or more a day that can take a big lump out of your profit margin.

 

If you think about it there is far more to it than head neck or heart lung, there are times when one is far better than the other and times when its better to put the safety back on. As long as you can justify why you took the shot you did and the result is a humane kill then it each to his own. While you can just chance it on paper or steel, the quarry only deserves our best.

[kent]

Any placement is about experience in the given situation. The only issue I see with neck shots is people using it as a badge of honour. If its the most appropriate shot take it, should never ever be about if you can. Rate on non recovery of shot deer where a dog has been called is in its highest on high neck and brain, its a smaller area with a large percentage areas for slow acting though fatal woundings like the oesophagus or jaw and the area is very mobile.

[bewsh]

I spent the day at Highland Game's venison plant and the CEO commented that he would prefer a chest shot over neck shot which was interesting.

 

Given that 90% of the animals hanging in there were FC culls and had at least one shoulder blown to bits, many had loin damage with high chest shots too close to the spine. (an honestly shocking display of marksmanship!)

 

Despite this he said the amount of meat lost in the neck due to trimming away the bruised, bloody, bony and hairy bit was significant enough to cause for more mass of mince meat to be lost.

 

I personally have only ever shot deer in the upper neck side on

Despite the argument that deer don't die if you don't sever the spine I have first hand experience to the contrary. at least two of the lying red stags I neck shot where the bullet touched or exposed but did not sever the spine were stone dead.

call it blunt trauma, shock, hydrostatic or otherwise), you put a 130gr ,270 round that close to the spine and the shock will kill

[kent]

I spent the day at Highland Game's venison plant and the CEO commented that he would prefer a chest shot over neck shot which was interesting.

 

Given that 90% of the animals hanging in there were FC culls and had at least one shoulder blown to bits, many had loin damage with high chest shots too close to the spine. (an honestly shocking display of marksmanship!)

 

Despite this he said the amount of meat lost in the neck due to trimming away the bruised, bloody, bony and hairy bit was significant enough to cause for more mass of mince meat to be lost.

 

I personally have only ever shot deer in the upper neck side on

Despite the argument that deer don't die if you don't sever the spine I have first hand experience to the contrary. at least two of the lying red stags I neck shot where the bullet touched or exposed but did not sever the spine were stone dead.

call it blunt trauma, shock, hydrostatic or otherwise), you put a 130gr ,270 round that close to the spine and the shock will kill

Was he perhaps thinking anywhere on the neck? Coz a low neck shot will waste a bit of meat on its day. spine damage often leads to paralysis, one should always check the blink reflex. like you say sometimes a badly placed shot can kill quite effectively - a single often small and un- noticed shard of copper jacket has saved many a stalkers day.

[brown dog]

I spent the day at Highland Game's venison plant and the CEO commented that he would prefer a chest shot over neck shot which was interesting.

 

Doesn't surprise me at all, as I said earlier that's what I was taught, through and through chest is the 'butcher's shot; no damage of useable meat.

[Missed]

I spent the day at Highland Game's venison plant and the CEO commented that he would prefer a chest shot over neck shot which was interesting.

 

Given that 90% of the animals hanging in there were FC culls and had at least one shoulder blown to bits, many had loin damage with high chest shots too close to the spine. (an honestly shocking display of marksmanship!)

 

Despite this he said the amount of meat lost in the neck due to trimming away the bruised, bloody, bony and hairy bit was significant enough to cause for more mass of mince meat to be lost.

 

I personally have only ever shot deer in the upper neck side on

Despite the argument that deer don't die if you don't sever the spine I have first hand experience to the contrary. at least two of the lying red stags I neck shot where the bullet touched or exposed but did not sever the spine were stone dead.

call it blunt trauma, shock, hydrostatic or otherwise), you put a 130gr ,270 round that close to the spine and the shock will kill

Neurogenic shock.