.17 HMR vs. .22 lr

[gbal]

yes i knew the bullet was the same 17 grain as the hmr ! you say the HM2 will be worse ? surley its flatter shooting and less wind drift than the 22lr ? wasn't that the point of the new 17 cal rimfires to better the 22lr ? from memory the HM2 is about 2100fps and the 22lr upto 1450fps i thought , in my eyes id have one of those over the 22 ! but the main factor would be saftey as the 22lr ric-ochet's badly ! actually im not sure on the wind drift on these two compairing them , which one is better or worse ! as for the 17 hornet , id just use that for distant stuff and under 100 yrds as it'd mean two rifles , scopes , moderators , sod that !

Beware the man with one tool-he can botch up lots of jobs!The 17 m2 can't do the 17 H jobs...

The Hmach 2 data are (eley,hornady,rem.cci are very similar):2100 muzzle fps drop/drift in inches:

 

50 y +0.7 /1 100y zero/4.4 125y -1.6/7.1 150y -4.4/10.3 175y -8.3 /14.7

 

the corresponding data for 22rf are(eley club extra-not a hi vel)

+3.6/1 zero/3.9 -5.4/6 -13.3/8.4 -24/11.3

 

 

The 17 is actually a little worse for wind (which matters 'cos you can't judge it well),though a bit better for drop.Looks like 100y max for 22rf,and maybe 125 for the 17m2,on a very good day.More is simply unethical.

!17 HRM is better,of course,and the 17 Hornet better again.The very light bullets though shed velocity at an alarming rate-do not judge by mv alone! None of these are remotely in 223 cf league,which is too much for your intended use.

george

[kent]

yes i knew the bullet was the same 17 grain as the hmr ! you say the HM2 will be worse ? surley its flatter shooting and less wind drift than the 22lr ? wasn't that the point of the new 17 cal rimfires to better the 22lr ? from memory the HM2 is about 2100fps and the 22lr upto 1450fps i thought , in my eyes id have one of those over the 22 ! but the main factor would be saftey as the 22lr ric-ochet's badly ! actually im not sure on the wind drift on these two compairing them , which one is better or worse ! as for the 17 hornet , id just use that for distant stuff and under 100 yrds as it'd mean two rifles , scopes , moderators , sod that !

 

You cannot outrun wind, I was talking .22 at sub sonic velocity compared to a HMR at 2400 fps! There is no useable gain in windage at 100yds, the gain is actually less than the dope guess could be once your at 10 mph FV. Different .22 bullets have different BC and that should be remembered in comparing. Speed dictates trajectory

[kent]

yes i knew the bullet was the same 17 grain as the hmr ! you say the HM2 will be worse ? surley its flatter shooting and less wind drift than the 22lr ? wasn't that the point of the new 17 cal rimfires to better the 22lr ? from memory the HM2 is about 2100fps and the 22lr upto 1450fps i thought , in my eyes id have one of those over the 22 ! but the main factor would be saftey as the 22lr ric-ochet's badly ! actually im not sure on the wind drift on these two compairing them , which one is better or worse ! as for the 17 hornet , id just use that for distant stuff and under 100 yrds as it'd mean two rifles , scopes , moderators , sod that !

 

You cannot outrun wind, I was talking .22 at sub sonic velocity compared to a HMR at 2400 fps! There is no useable gain in windage at 100yds, the gain is actually less than the dope guess could be once your at 10 mph FV. Different .22 bullets have different BC and that should be remembered in comparing. Speed dictates trajectory. Anything bounces I find no advantage in the HMR other than it reacts to rushes worse than the .22 and better on hidden hard objects ( carrying twice the kinetic energy negates ant gain IMO)

 

Thanks a lot guys, your input is much appreciated.

 

Kent, you refer to good ammo, were you thinking of any particular brands? It would be good to have an idea of which brands to test when I get to that stage.

 

I've had very good experience with Eley in handguns in the past and it looks like their subsonic hollow is getting positive reviews for both accuracy and performance on small game.

 

I have used the SK subs (lapua) for the last 6-7yrs almost exclusively. At 50yds my gun shoots almost anything but at 100+ choice matters. I was using my mates new 455 the other week with the Eley subs out to around 130 yds on multiple tagets and getting first round hits on tiny apples the size of plumbs, it was windy, the shots all un-ranged other than by eye and they impressed me greatly with that performance. Depends on the gun my only advice is clean between brands and shoot two boxes of each brand you can get and record results at a decent range. Then buy as many of the best you can forthwith from the same dealer stock.

[Christian]

I have used the SK subs (lapua) for the last 6-7yrs almost exclusively. At 50yds my gun shoots almost anything but at 100+ choice matters. I was using my mates new 455 the other week with the Eley subs out to around 130 yds on multiple tagets and getting first round hits on tiny apples the size of plumbs, it was windy, the shots all un-ranged other than by eye and they impressed me greatly with that performance. Depends on the gun my only advice is clean between brands and shoot two boxes of each brand you can get and record results at a decent range. Then buy as many of the best you can forthwith from the same dealer stock.

 

Thanks Kent.

 

I know my RFD (Alan Wey) has the Eley in stock and speaks very highly of them, so I'll start out testing them. The Lapuas are then next on my list if the Eleys don't work in my gun.

 

Cheers,

 

Christian

[gbal]

You cannot outrun wind, I was talking .22 at sub sonic velocity compared to a HMR at 2400 fps! There is no useable gain in windage at 100yds, the gain is actually less than the dope guess could be once your at 10 mph FV. Different .22 bullets have different BC and that should be remembered in comparing. Speed dictates trajectory

Velocity is one factor-you are closer on BC as a more comprehensive guide-but both matter.Simply put,at the same initial velocity,the higher BC will have a better trajectory.To be equal the lower BC will need more velocity,and that simply can't always be achieved. I do agree that you should use the actual trajectory tables for your actual bullet,remembering these are under specified barrel etc conditions.Then you just need to consider wind and distance errors,if you have those same conditions!

100 yards begind to look about it,as most experience shows.....unless you really can judge small apples by eye within a few yards.Most of us can't,though it's not impossible.Allow for some barrel wear,during the learning process.Eley and Lapua are good starts though subs seldom exhibit quite the consistency of top match ammo.

 

george,

[Christian]

Cheers George.

[fizzbangwhallop]

I'm in the process of going for a .17HM2 spare barrel for my Sako Finnfire - the CZ 452 17HMR is going. HM2 ammo is £10 odd per 100.

 

With regard to your question on a moderator and ammo for the .22 - For my Finnfire with both the standard and the varmint barrel Eley subs gave the best group compared to CCI and Winchesters.

 

With the standard 21" barrel on I tried 3 moderators: the old favourite Parker Hale, an Ase Utra and a Sirocco SM2 (lightest) - the sirocco gave the tightest groups and I think I only paid £20 for it.

 

's me.

 

atb

Fizz

[Christian]

Hi Fizz

 

Thanks for your input. I've now purchased a Finnfire and, coincidentally, also a Sirocco SMII. Still waiting to pick up the goods, but will post images asap.

 

Cheers,

 

Christian

[kent]

Velocity is one factor-you are closer on BC as a more comprehensive guide-but both matter.Simply put,at the same initial velocity,the higher BC will have a better trajectory.To be equal the lower BC will need more velocity,and that simply can't always be achieved. I do agree that you should use the actual trajectory tables for your actual bullet,remembering these are under specified barrel etc conditions.Then you just need to consider wind and distance errors,if you have those same conditions!

100 yards begind to look about it,as most experience shows.....unless you really can judge small apples by eye within a few yards.Most of us can't,though it's not impossible.Allow for some barrel wear,during the learning process.Eley and Lapua are good starts though subs seldom exhibit quite the consistency of top match ammo.

 

george,

 

Not to my mind or experience. A sub is less than half the velocity of a HMR and at 100yds there aint much between them on wind. No were is the speed theory disproved any better.

Top match ammo v subs? well I don't shoot match ammo at all but I doubt it could do any significant amount better than the SK subs in my gun other than via the facility to go and test the stuff on site and buy in massive quantity via the batch system

[gbal]

Not to my mind or experience. A sub is less than half the velocity of a HMR and at 100yds there aint much between them on wind. No were is the speed theory disproved any better.

Top match ammo v subs? well I don't shoot match ammo at all but I doubt it could do any significant amount better than the SK subs in my gun other than via the facility to go and test the stuff on site and buy in massive quantity via the batch system

Tenex does though have rather a good track record in competition.But as you admit,you haven't tried it in your gun so we shall never know.in that no doubt exceptional case. I would not expect a wholesale move to SK subs among the accuracy/olympic shooters.

I don't think that 22rf subs and 17 hmr have the same BC.I did give actual test data on 100 yard performance for several very similar brands,and made no claims for substantial superiority at 100y.

Your comments about 'speed theory disproved' are not clear-speed is always an advantage in terms of drop,but only when BC is matched.Terminal performance-killing rabbits -is not quite the same,and other lethality and accuracy factors come in.

I would think all the mentioned cartridges can deliver enough foot pounds at 100y,bullet design might be a factor,and accuracy would be too,in it's delivery.

There is no reason at all that you cannot buy SK subs up to your FAC limit,and I note that you think you enjoy maximum possible performance from them,and have no need to try others.KISS:keep it simple,sometimes?

 

george

[fizzbangwhallop]

Hi Fizz

 

Thanks for your input. I've now purchased a Finnfire and, coincidentally, also a Sirocco SMII. Still waiting to pick up the goods, but will post images asap.

 

Cheers,

 

Christian

 

Nice one Christian!!

If you want a 17HM2 spare barrel to go with it then Richard Pope of Swift Precision has stainless off the shelf or blued to order. Met him yesterday.... Good man.

 

Part-ex'd a v.nice blued full-length Varmint barrel with him against the HM2 barrel if you're looking for one of those. I've kept the stock (long story behind that if you dig back through my posts - be very cautious with tightening the cross bolts on mounts, especially one-piece mounts. A disaaaaster!)

 

Cracking little classic rifles... Won't be selling mine ever.

 

's me.

Atb

Fizz

 

 

[Christian]

Hi Fizz,

 

Thanks for the tip. My Finnfire is the varmint version, so no need for the heavy barrel.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Christian

[kent]

Hi Fizz,

 

Thanks for the tip. My Finnfire is the varmint version, so no need for the heavy barrel.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Christian

Nice guns

[Christian]