Can animals see laser designator beams??

[Oly]

I'm wondering whether to try either a Optimus or Laser Genetics but wanted to get a better idea as to whether foxes etc are aware of the light. Comments online seem like a real mixed bag hence the poll from knowledgeable sources!

 

Therefore, ONLY if you have used such a laser designator can you please let me know from your experience whether animals can see these light beams?

 

Thanks,

Oly

[6mmBR]

I spooked a field of lapwings with one when scanning around for Charlie.

I was quite surprised but seemingly not as much as they were.

Cheers

Dave

[Swamp Donkey]

Put a green laser beam into a murder of crows and watch them fly off pretty rapid. I've not tried on foxes, but rabbits don't seem too bothered tho' maybe birds see it differently

[JohnGalway]

I've an optimus on the way, will report back when I've used it in anger, bloody better not spook foxes or it'll be sent back from whence it came with a rocket up it's bum.

[Oly]

Please pm me with your findings John. I always think the test would be: put nv on the fox to observe it 'at ease', put the laser on it, note any reaction, if it's still at ease put a traditional lamp on it, again note the reaction.

 

Done a few times I would have thought the evidence to be pretty clear...even if it's just noting any reaction between laser and lamp.

[no bull]

I'm wondering whether to try either a Optimus or Laser Genetics but wanted to get a better idea as to whether foxes etc are aware of the light. Comments online seem like a real mixed bag hence the poll from knowledgeable sources!

 

Therefore, ONLY if you have used such a laser designator can you please let me know from your experience whether animals can see these light beams?

 

Thanks,

Oly

 

I went lamping with "minkstone" the weekend and he was using his Laser Genetics Sub Zero, we were spotting Roe and Muntjac up to 400 yds and they did not seem bothered, same for the rabbits we shot and the fox

[Hatzi]

I happen to know a professor of opthalmology at the Royal Veterinary College so if I get the chance I can ask him.

[Chris-NZ]

yeh but he'd prefer to have someone qualified to comment Hatzi

[JohnGalway]

Please pm me with your findings John. I always think the test would be: put nv on the fox to observe it 'at ease', put the laser on it, note any reaction, if it's still at ease put a traditional lamp on it, again note the reaction.

 

Done a few times I would have thought the evidence to be pretty clear...even if it's just noting any reaction between laser and lamp.

 

I'll put it up on thread (or I'll make a new one), either it spooks or it doesn't. Haven't got NV so lamp or LED flashlight will be the other illumination.

[provarmint]

I spooked a field of lapwings with one when scanning around for Charlie.

I was quite surprised but seemingly not as much as they were.

Cheers

Dave

 

Birds have more colour receptors in the eye and can pick up invisible light and magnetic fields, similar to reptiles.

[abolter]

Apologies if I am off topic but without question foxes can see the IR target designators. I do not think they are aware that they are bathed in light but they definately can see the pin football of light at the source. I had one wary vixen would sit at 400m and look for me. If IR on she wouldnt come. I ended up building a pallet hide one night and only flicking the IR on at the last second for the shot.

[shaun]

Deer and foxes can definitely see ir light, when watching them with the nv without the ir illuminator they'll just be milling about as they normally would, as soon as you turn the ir on they become alert and look straight at you! It'll be interesting to see how the lasers perform

[happyhunter]

Deer and foxes can definitely see ir light, when watching them with the nv without the ir illuminator they'll just be milling about as they normally would, as soon as you turn the ir on they become alert and look straight at you! It'll be interesting to see how the lasers perform

 

 

Does it not depend on the wavelength of the ir light source wether they can see it or not? Pretty sure they can see anything below 900nm but I stand to be corrected, wether they take any notice or not is another matter! Some foxes take no notice whatsoever of my striker with ir filter others are onto it straight away but usually carry on as normal and by that time it's too late!

[shaun]

Does it not depend on the wavelength of the ir light source wether they can see it or not? Pretty sure they can see anything below 900nm but I stand to be corrected, wether they take any notice or not is another matter! Some foxes take no notice whatsoever of my striker with ir filter others are onto it straight away but usually carry on as normal and by that time it's too late!

 

Not sure about the wavelength of the light source but that probably is the same for the lasers?

[Oly]

I happen to know a professor of opthalmology at the Royal Veterinary College so if I get the chance I can ask him.

 

 

Interesting information/explanation here - http://www.wildlifeonline.me.uk/questions_answers_foxes.html#colourblind

 

I would still like to know the effects in the field test though (John!!). Sounds like they may be red/green colour blind...but this doesn't mean that they can't see the light...same as red/green colour blindness I guess...

[Brummy Mark]

Yes they can, animal defence research centre at Melton has done a load of work on this.

[Oly]

Yes they can, animal defence research centre at Melton has done a load of work on this.

 

Any info?

[JohnGalway]

Interesting information/explanation here - http://www.wildlifeonline.me.uk/questions_answers_foxes.html#colourblind

 

I would still like to know the effects in the field test though (John!!). Sounds like they may be red/green colour blind...but this doesn't mean that they can't see the light...same as red/green colour blindness I guess...

 

Hard for me to test it while it's in the post Ol

[Oly]

Apologies John! It wasn't meant as a prompt!

[JohnGalway]

I know, I was just winding you

 

As it happens JG got post this morning

 

Whether I get out tonight, or not, is another question. If I don't I'll be out tomorrow night.

 

I haven't been tripping over foxes here to be honest on my 5 nights out, shot 2 in two nights, didn't see a twinkle the other 3 nights.

 

But, when I meet a red fella or two I will say what I think.

 

 

Edit:

 

Bugger. On closer inspection I will need to dig through my gun crap and see if I have a spare 30mm ring as there isn't one included to attach the mount to my scope. Unless I am being very thick, which is possible......

 

Bugger again, I've no mount to go between the rings.

[patsat]

I bought one of these last week, The Optimus ND5 and the rechargeable batteries.

 

Have shot 2 foxes with it and neither of them took any notice of the laser on them. Another fox rang across the road infront of me and in through a gate. We shown the laser on the fox as it sat 20 yards from the jeep and it never moved!

 

And just tonight one of my friends rang to collect him because he ran out of petrol! from the end of the straight he was on I shown the laser up the road (quite rural road) at him and over the phone he told me it had him fully illuminated and even went past him and lit up the ditch where the road turned! I then sat into the jeep and reset the trip. My friend was 1km away and the ditch that it lit up was 1.6km away!

 

Can't complain with that!

[JohnGalway]

I brought the Optimus out last night, just hand held as I haven't yet got the scope ring mount sorted - solution (hopefully) in the post.

 

First impressions (and that's all they are, because as it's not mounted it's not fair to say it's a review) are it's very different than how I imagined it would be. The beam, compared to a traditional lamp is very very narrow. Unless people lamp on perfectly flat ground where you cannot possibly miss seeing a fox I can't see how this designator can effectively be used as a spotter. It certainly isn't up to that job on the ground I shoot over, but I didn't purchase it for that reason in the first instance.

 

I saw no fox but was watching sheep at 183 yards (it's hard to hold a narrow beam steady in my hand) and it didn't bother them at least - yes I know, you're not going shooting sheep.

 

Having the beam as wide as possible I don't think I'd be able to see my thin un-illuminated (battery cap is stuck on) NP-R2 crosshairs well enough on a fox to shoot him at that range.

 

However, as you tighten the beam up, the amount of ground covered naturally lessens, but it also becomes brighter and the picture more clear. While that is good it gives me some little concern in a case of getting a fox in the sight picture only for him to move behind and obstacle and having to try to find him again, same health warning I haven't used it properly yet.

 

That's where a GOOD mount will be vital, and a bad mount will break a persons heart. The mount will have to be able to let the operator centre the designators narrowest beam to the centre of the crosshairs (or at least in the case of my thin un-illuminated crosshairs).

 

Tightening the beam could I then shoot the fox at that range, yes, I believe so and I think with the mount probably a fair bit farther.

 

I may run into a problem picking out the fox from the background, given the contrast here between fox colour and native grass colours.

 

I am not saying that for definite because I only played with it for a short while one night out again not mounted.

 

I did notice my eye felt a bit funny, and it did seem to interfere with my own eyes natural adjustment to night time light levels. This could have been from the few times I accidentally shone the designator across the ground very near me, it's incredibly bright then.

 

The only other concern I have is visibility of the backstop as the amount you can see through your scope on a tight beam really is very little. I would say when I look through my NF last night, tight beam, I could maybe see 15-20% through my scope than if I had a traditional lamp where I would be able to see all of the scope picture - if that makes sense. I have little trouble with backstops here, unless a fox is on the crest of a hill as we're all pretty much either up hill or down dale.

 

Got to get out with this a few times to be fair to it, and when I do that, some of the above might change one way or the other.

 

As I started out saying, these are just my first impressions after a short imperfect time out.

[JohnGalway]

My eye hurts again

 

So, my little ring/rail mount jobbies arrived this morning. Meaning I could finally mount the Optimus to my scope using it's windage/elevation mount.

 

Seeing as I wanted to test it out, I headed for bunnyland. I found a few rabbits about as far away as I could and I ranged them at 238 yards. Took a shot at one and killed him, wasn't the best placed shot, but he didn't budge. When I got to the rabbit I ranged where I shot from and got 245 yards, so good going.

 

 

I thought I saw a fox a fair way off, past 300 yards, but I couldn't make out what it was by lamp or Optimus.

 

It's a calm night here by the way, a bit overcast.

 

Got fed up there then and headed out to the hill. I used the rabbit distress and a fox came in and surprised me a bit, not sure where he came from. I found the fox in the scope after a fair bit of fiddling. Then as I have been told of, I ran into trouble. The Optimus made his eyes shine so much as to hide him. I knew he was facing me but I didn't take the shot because I couldn't say I was 100% about it. Then, as happens in that place, he took off. I did see him again but just for half a second.

 

So................

 

Perhaps the Optimus unit is better suited to better land. Flatter less cluttered land where a person has many opportunities to take the shot, instead of land like here (where God put all the leftover rocks, hills, gullys, hollows, furze bushes etc.) where snap shots do present themselves more often than not.

 

I am not decided on whether I'm going to keep the Optimus or sell it. I will try it again over a few nights, but I am a bit unhappy tonight because if I was using the lamp I am 80% sure I'd have a photo of a fox as well as a rabbit.

 

I am going to move the mounting back the scope towards me, meaning I'll have to remove the lightforce bracket. I found having it mounted past my turrets meant I had a real stretch to do to adjust the width of the beam.

 

I am not sure how it'll far on brighter nights, but only trying it will tell. As we all know the moon will make the brightest lamp look kinda wimpy those nights.

 

As to the original question, I do think animals can see the light. I can't yet say whether it spooks them or not for sure. Particularly with the fox/es I saw tonight as both places are known for skittish foxes for some reason.

[Oly]

Great write ups, please keep us posted with any more of your findings John.

 

Have you got a link to the mount you used too?

 

Many thanks,

Oly

[JohnGalway]

Great write ups, please keep us posted with any more of your findings John.

 

Have you got a link to the mount you used too?

 

Many thanks,

Oly

 

I'll have to go digging for a receipt or email. This is a bit bizarre because I thought I ordered it off ebay but I can't find an email from them or paypal for it

 

It's just like a scope ring, except where you'd have the part that joins to the mount there's a little rail. It was a bit tight goinf on the scope which I didn't like. I have tape between the rings and the scope, hope it doesn't mark it!