walkabout Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 In the near future I want to have built a 100 yrd benchrest rifle. I want someting that will produce small groups...but I do not have the time to do loads of case forming, neck turning e.t.c. It would be nice to be able to use quality brass off the shelf like Lapua. I will only be shooting local comps and for my satisfaction. Opions would be much appreciated, I have a 6.5x47Lap/.308 & 6.5x55 which is great, just was thinking of something a bit more specialised for 100 yrds. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyw Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 no1 king of the hill-6ppc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6mmBR Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 No case prep the 6BR is probably the best bet. Cheers Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballistol Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 6PPC has and still does dominate. Sounds like you want 6PPC USA, no neck turning involved, and a doddle to form from 220 Russian Lapua brass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyw Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 6PPC has and still does dominate. Sounds like you want 6PPC USA, no neck turning involved, and a doddle to form from 220 Russian Lapua brass. thats what i have.load and shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gun Pimp Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 In the near future I want to have built a 100 yrd benchrest rifle. I want someting that will produce small groups...but I do not have the time to do loads of case forming, neck turning e.t.c. It would be nice to be able to use quality brass off the shelf like Lapua. I will only be shooting local comps and for my satisfaction. Opions would be much appreciated, I have a 6.5x47Lap/.308 & 6.5x55 which is great, just was thinking of something a bit more specialised for 100 yrds. Thanks If you don't want to neck-turn and fire-form brass, then it's got to be 6BR. If we all ditched our 6PPCs and chambered 'em in 6BR, I don't think we'd see a difference - it's just that the 6BR wasn't around when Palmisano & Pindel wildcatted the 220 Russian case. Having said that, Darrel Evans is shooting some stunning groups (a 0.18 inch 5-shot group - in competition) with his 6.5x47 Accuracy International. This cartridge has already set records in 600 yd benchrest - it could be stunning built into a 100 yd HV rig. Vince Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roebuck Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 222 remington : -lapua brass -many good match bullet -easy to load Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onehole Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Yeah,,,My 6BR has done everything my old PPC would have done but I can match anything the 6br can do with my current 9twistRPA 223 smithed by Dasherman.Main thing is you don,t want a bucking bronco on a bench for 100yards shooting so 6br on the light stuff or a 222 or 223 should give silly little groups too!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxing2night Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 I have got a 6.5x47, it rides the bags very good and it is turning in some realy nice groups,, No turn neck, just load and shoot, Good for 100yrd and anything out to 1000yrd,, One rifle and it will do all??? Darrel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 In the near future I want to have built a 100 yrd benchrest rifle. I want someting that will produce small groups...but I do not have the time to do loads of case forming, neck turning e.t.c. It would be nice to be able to use quality brass off the shelf like Lapua. I will only be shooting local comps and for my satisfaction. Opions would be much appreciated, I have a 6.5x47Lap/.308 & 6.5x55 which is great, just was thinking of something a bit more specialised for 100 yrds. Thanks Everybody is right!Vince is more right,because he's more detailed!And the devil and the delight is in the detail. If you are having a build done,then presumably you are not 'restricted' to off the peg prices. You are not (yet?) wanting to shoot ultra competitively You find neck turning a pain in the thumb(or close ryhme)-most do,though you might not need to do much... You know what 6.5/308 etc feels like recoilwise,less would be nicer.. See 6br.co for a lot of information-in a nutshell,nothing in it between 6PPC and 6BR (norma)-as Vince says,esp at 100/200.Remember most of the information is from neck turned ppc's,6BR can go either way. The 6BR will of course perform well beyond short range- no body is trying PPCs at 1000 yards.In score (rather than group) shooting,the 30 BR takes over-it gives so little away in accuracy,but that bigger hole just clips the next ring more often..I was shooting my 30BR and Sako 6ppc USA yesterday in some wind-30 had the edge,even at 50 yards,though not identical rifles-point is the BR case is no handicap(and that was reformed old rem brass,not top class lapua! Both the 6s are a delight to shoot-recoil is less than half the 308-begins to matter when its 50+ rounds for 'fun' Factory ammo is/was available-top quality stuff from Norma and Lapua-at a price. Both are rather limited as factory rifle options-though you may not want them-Savage,Blaser might still do 6br, Cooper, and Sig Sauer in Europe. 6BR will take a wider range bullets-but that's just a temptation to fiddle! The 'old' 222rem was top pre PPC,and doesn't shoot too shabbily still-no BR rifles now so chambered.. -it has some nostalgia too-but won't offer any unique advantages,esp if you throw 22ppc into the mix-let's not! 6ppc (USA) or 6BR (norma)-its win/win- ultimate choice depends on just what you want,100 yard groups will depend on other factors,common to both( the wind,eg!)6BR offers some things extra,if you might want them ... Get a 'Vince'! and enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6.5shooter Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Or you could build a swift! Very accurate and easy to find a load for! Here is what my last factory rigle would do: You wont get bored of it shooting silly groups because youre barrel probably wont last that long! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkabout Posted August 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Thanks guys for all the replies. I'm just about to finish off my new 6.5x47, so next project needs to be on the boil! As I have a 6.5x47 I will go a different caliber, probably go the easy route 6BR or .223. A bit more research and advice from you guys who have the experience and I will make my decision. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gun Pimp Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Thanks guys for all the replies. I'm just about to finish off my new 6.5x47, so next project needs to be on the boil! As I have a 6.5x47 I will go a different caliber, probably go the easy route 6BR or .223. A bit more research and advice from you guys who have the experience and I will make my decision. Mark With a good rifle, careful brass prep. and top quality components, several cartridges will perform well. I've shot competitive benchrest for almost 20 years and seen many good performances from rifles chambered with 223, 222, 243 and even 308 and there are targets on the wall of Diggle's clubhouse showing tiny groups shot by all of these cartridges. They are all capable of tiny groups at 100/200yds but, they don't win matches against the 6PPC - in fact, nothing does! In addition to the 6PPC, a few other cartridges appear to be 'inherently accurate' - but, if you don't want the hassle of neck-turning etc. - the 6BR would have to top the list IMHO. Vince Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 For a no reload then for me it would have to be 6BR. A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry May Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 My next bench gun...when I can get a bolt with a ppc boltface for my BAT SB is going to be 220 Beggs, straight 220 Russian case with a slightly sharper radius at the neck/shoulder junction. No fire formimg. Jerry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gun Pimp Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 My next bench gun...when I can get a bolt with a ppc boltface for my BAT SB is going to be 220 Beggs, straight 220 Russian case with a slightly sharper radius at the neck/shoulder junction. No fire formimg. Jerry. Jerry, Good luck with the Beggs - do you need a reamer? I had a very frustrating season with one - when it's good, it's good but it's much more finnicky than a 6PPC. I've tried a 22PPC and a 22PPC 'short' but the 6PPC feels so 'solid' after a 22. Vince Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Jerry, Good luck with the Beggs - do you need a reamer? I had a very frustrating season with one - when it's good, it's good but it's much more finnicky than a 6PPC. I've tried a 22PPC and a 22PPC 'short' but the 6PPC feels so 'solid' after a 22. Vince Beggs question:what happened to the 6mm necked up only version? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gun Pimp Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Beggs question:what happened to the 6mm necked up only version? Well, Gene Beggs made great claims for his 6mm and 22 Beggs cartridge but have a look how many were used at the Super Shoot (400 of the world's best BR shooters). George Kelbly (of Stolle actions fame) has always shot the straight 220 Russian and achieved great things with it - but no one else has. If you want to play, give it a go - if you want to win don't re-invent the wheel - the 6PPC is still king. Mind you, Jerry did some fantastic things with a 22PPC Sako and still holds the odd UKBRA record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alled12 Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 6mm ppc or .222 it still holds a record that the ppc cant touch nice and easy and ammo is reasonable price. Lapua match stuff for 6mmbr is £60 a box. Good luck whatever you decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alled12 Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Just to clarify the .222 it was shot in 1973 the group size was 0.009 inch in the light varmint class and it was shot by Mac Macmillan who is the uncle of the Macmillan brothers stocks and there action is based on the one he used for the above 222. It is still to this day the smallest group shot in any bench rest class. The story is below for those of you who are interested: http://www.shootingtimes.com/2010/09/23/longgun_reviews_st_legacyofps_200911/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkabout Posted August 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 I did not realise I would start such a response. It is very interesting that people still find some of the "older" calibers are still in the running. I have been trying to find out the best groups shot in the last 5 years or so, and what calibers were used. Not a real detailed list, but what the best 10 are using in the UK? Anybody have an idea? Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 I did not realise I would start such a response. It is very interesting that people still find some of the "older" calibers are still in the running. I have been trying to find out the best groups shot in the last 5 years or so, and what calibers were used. Not a real detailed list, but what the best 10 are using in the UK? Anybody have an idea? Mark Hi Mark, If the question is:what cartridge has the best competition record for group size at 100 and 200 yards,then the answer is 6PPC.This has been so since it's introduction around 1975.The evidence is overwhelming-of course,now and then a few excellent performances come in from something else-though quite often it's a ppc variant,but bearing in mind the 1000s of winning groups fired at each US big competition,and number that have been in the .1s,and .0s -'connsistently dominant' is truly the word for the 6PPC.I am sure Vince will have details,but the last time I looked,all the 100/200y UKBRA records were held by PPC.You can check USA etc results via the web-even 6mmB,especially R can't disagree.It really is that good,and for that long.I can't think of any other cartridge that has so totally dominated any shooting competition to the same extent for more than 30 years.All the ,ore remarkable given the considerable effort that has gone into finding a better one for this purpose,but we should be grateful to those who try. The 222 rem -and close derivatives-had a run for a few years prior to the ppc,and it's a dandy cartridge,but there is a reason it's not used anymore-ppc is just better.Of course,all this derives from custom built rifles-nothing else will be competitive,but there have been some 'factory' ppcs- eg Ruger,Cooper and Sako,chambered for the factory round - 6PPC USA,and the 22 version. Which is where your original question comes in-if you do not want to do any neck turning etc-then that is an option.Custom build?-not really-tight neck and very careful prepping do pay dividents at the serious level.Of course,you can neck turn brass for factory chamber...Alternative that comes close,and no neck turn etc- and maybe has an edge beyond 200y is the 6BR. PPC and BR are rather pleasant to shoot too-and not 'out of proportion' expensive-which is a bonus when just shooting casually or for fun. There is a considerable literature on all this,but no serious dissent-the evidence is overwhelming.Just google 6ppc,6BR,UKBRA,NBRSA,WBC-just because it is to hand,here are the results from the 2005 World BR championships (from Ratigan,Extreme Rifle Accuracy):Top 20 light varmint,19 are 6PPC;heavy varmint Top 20,19 are 6PPC.The other one?-12th and 6th respectively: mike r,with a '22-100'-essentially a short ppc. As Churchill famously said,the Americans will do the right thing...but will try everything else first.Simples!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mole-e30 Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 Not a real detailed list, but what the best 10 are using in the UK? Anybody have an idea? Mark Hi Mark Attached are the league results from the UK for 2011, I think the 6PPC seems to dominate Cheers Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkabout Posted August 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 Hi Mark Attached are the league results from the UK for 2011, I think the 6PPC seems to dominate Cheers Bruce Thanks Bruce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted August 14, 2012 Report Share Posted August 14, 2012 I agree that there is more than just "nostalgia" involved with a .222 Remington. A custom build with attention to detail would grab a lot of attention at 100 yards. I have a standard Model 70 Winchester in Triple Deuce that will shoot in the two's with standard, off the shelf components. In a good BR gun it's just up to the shooter: The rifle will take care of itself. JMHO, of course.~Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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