Brass annealing machines.

[craigyboy]

Just wondering does anyone on here aneal brass????? I have been looking into it for a while but the only 2 companies I can find that make the proper machine wont export them to the uk, which is a shame. They both make automated machines, you just set the torches at the right height and distance from the case and drop the cases into the wheel, they do one revolution and then drop out, necks annealed, it looks handy once you get it set up its a simple process. Does anyone here know of another machine that can be bought here? I have been thinking of making one but being a joiner I would want to make one outta wood which might go up in flames! All you really need is a wheel with some holes drilled into to fit cases and a 24v motor to turn the wheel a variable spped switch and a way of mounting the two torches, in all seriousness I probably could make one from timber as there should not be any heat near the bottom of the case provided I set it up right. I know there are other voddo methods but i want to really control it all and make them all exactly the same. The only reaosn I want to anneal is I put alot of work into my brass neck turning etc and I have a select batch of my best which is on its 6th firing now and definatley getting a bit harder, would be nice if I could prolong its life a bit for another few firings, the annealing machines in the us run for about $300 which by the time you take in the extra life you may get outta your laupa brass it could be a good investment. I find i am shooting and loading alot these days and this might be a worth while investment if I can get one.

 

heres an article on one Ken Light BC100

[Vermincinerator]

Craigy,

i had to anneal Win 300wsm cases in order that for me to neck turn them.

After using the expanderon the neck would spring back enough to stop the mandrel of the neck turner going past the neck/shoulder juncture.

Did it with a hand held cartridge torch.

I made a turntable with an 8" lazy susan bearing and mounted an 8" diameter plywood platter.

I placed a 3-4" dia cooked meat tin on the platter and filled it with enough water so that it came half way up the case body and proceded to heat the neck area with the propane torch untill a dark cherry red was reached whilst turning the turntable with my other hand.

I did this in the garage without any lights on and the door only half open, that way it was easier to see the dark cherry red appear on the case and still have enough light to see what i was doing.

I then tipped the case over in the water plucked it out with a pair of long nose pliers and put it to one side.

The water was changed after every 10 cases.

A bit of a long winded way of doing things but it worked okay and only cost me about £20 in components.

 

Ian.

[Ronin]

Not a process I would recommend you did yourself unless you have access to the right kit, I have seen a carosel device which has a flame heating just the case necks, but it was a bit heath robinson.

 

If you use bushing dies and only resize just enough for correct bullet tension, your brass should last longer.

 

I have some 6.5x284 brass that is on its tenth reload and still going strong (for now), resizing with 288" bushing on a .291 neck - loaded round measures .289" - you see where I am coming from?

 

You could very quickly run into unsafe brass if you get the annealling process wrong - Vince Bottomley strongly advises NOT to do it, if it was me, i'd steer away as well.

 

(Ian, looks like we were writing at similar times, just my two pennath mate)

[craigyboy]

Thanks for the advice lads. Ronin at the minute I am running very little neck tension and a fired case is only measuring 0.2325, loaded case is 0.2305 and I size the cases to 0.2290 so there is very little working of the brass going on, to be honest its just another thing I want to play around with , off work for 2 weeks, too much bloody time on my hands to think about all these things, been shooting nearly every single day, great fun, building a shooting bench, built a protable loading stand, think I have done more work since I got off!

 

I wanted to use one of those automated machines so I could be sure it was being done right and repeatable, although by the sounds of things Ian your hand method worked just fine for you, I assume it was already fired 300 winmag brass and thats why it was to hard too neckturn.

[Ronin]

If as Ian suggests, you set up a system where you can see the heat spread and keep it to the neck area, then it might be ok.

 

However my concern would be softening the brass in the primer pocket area which would lead to potentialy fatal concequences - dont think you would be so bad with a long case like the 300 winnie but a shorter smaller caliber......?

 

At the end of the day Craigy, its your choice, so long as you go in with your eyes open and are aware of the risks, only thinking of your safety and wellbeing mate.

[Vermincinerator]

No mate it was new unfired 300WSM brass i was ripping my hair out trying to figure out why it was springing back so much, i did not want to use an inside neck reamer just in case i reverse tapered the neck during cutting, annealing seemed the best action at the time

 

Andy, standing the case half way up its length in water prevents any heat conduction down to the base area.

The cases i annealed and prepped are now on there 12th reload with the owner of the rifle last time i spoke to him.

 

Ian.

[Redfox]

There is a good article on the 6mmbr.com site all about it and they go into some detail on the effects of annealing at home including the standing in water method ( I have done it too ) but as they point out not having accurate temp control and or repeatability you end up wih variable results even if you dont knacker the case body. I have to agree with their conclusions and that it is introducing ye another variable you dont want. Were the 300win case winchester Ian? I had one batch of those that seemed very hard but all the others have been ok up to now. If you are getting a decent number of reloads without messing with annealing, why bother anyway.

I have experimtened quite a bit and depending on cal/casetype/size I find the primer flash hole has changed in as little as 5 reloads up to 10 with the smaller milder primers, sufficiently to ditch the cases anyway, this is an item ignored in a lot of articles and yet primer hole shape and size have a dramatic effect on burn rate.

I dont agree with the removal of any burrs with a countersink/ centre drill either the inside shape of the flash hole does not want to be cone shaped, shows they know nothing about gas flow through holes.

Redfox

[Vermincinerator]

Yes they were Winchester but WSM not win mag, i bought 200 to end up with 60 good ones using my usual case culling measures and these were the ones that needed the work doing.

I begrudged paying a pound a piece for Norma at the time and thought that 200 WW cases would give me at least 150 good ones, how wrong i was.

 

Ian.

[craigyboy]

Thanks for the input Ian, redfox and Ronin. I appreciate guys like you with more knowledge thanI will probably ever have about all this shooting lark keeping me on the straight and narrow, I tend to be the type guy who goes balls lit into most things (you can imagine the trouble I get myself into somtimes) not weighing every thing up maybe annealing is just another fuss I dont need to worry myself about, as redfox say its probably just bringing another variable I dont need to introduce to my shooting, when the brass is done I will just bin in and not risk my health for sake of a few more fireings from my brass.

[Redfox]

No problem craigy we all enjoy waffling away anyway

Ian I know what you mean I was going to buy Norma too until I looked at the price, as I said Ive only had one poor batch and managed to sell those on to a lad who was going to Africa and would be leaving them on the ground! I did ask how many animals he was booked for and he said 7, I wondered what he was going to do with the other 70 or so rounds but he was happy with the price and the load I worked out for him, he actually lent the rifle and the rest of the ammo to his friend so it wasnt a waste.

As I mentioned the other day, get your cases stocked up they are talking 17-20% increase in prices by the end of Feb, heaven knows what price primers will be.

Redfox

[Finman]

Graig,

 

I have to hold my hand up and say that I have also annealed some 6mmBR and .204 cases. The 204 was getting neck splits in some cases and, since I cannot find anywhere else to buy them locally, I thought I'd anneal them to try and prolong their life. I followed the method that Varmint Al describes (in my case, I sawed a 300WMag case and that would just about fit a .204. Fixed that onto a nail which I secured on the chuck of a drill, hey presto!) and I have to admit that so far all the cases have held up. I have them loaded 7 or 8 times and I am not getting any more neck problems and accuracy has improved if anything else. Being mechanically challenged and not being able to understand the principles of neck tension, I have not made any such measures.

 

So, it does work, safely enough, although, I am sure that my rounds may not stand up to the scrutiny of the bench rest conoseur. I am sure though that none of the critters I've hit minded.

 

My two pence

 

Hope you are enjoying your holidays,

 

Finman

[Redfox]

Finman, just because you havent had an accident doesnt make it safe!

Quick, uniform, consistent application of high heat is the key to good annealing. When the brass around the mouth reaches a temperature of about 660 to 665 degrees Fahrenheit, its surface becomes light blue. This is as hot as you want to let it get. If you let the colour run too far toward the other end of the case, you can ruin the head by making it too soft. If you let the colour on the neck go beyond light blue, and the shine disappears, you're on the edge of ruining the case, and you may already have gone too far. If you let the case get red, even dull red in a darkened room, it’s a goner as you have gone over the660-665 deg.

 

But depending on getting the colour just right is too inaccurate to suit me. I recommend relying on something more accurate than colour perception. The most reliable case thermometer I know is a 650 or 660 degree temperature-sensitive crayon called a "temp stick", available from engineers merchants.

Or a machine made and set up to consistently do it which means wasting quite a few cases.

The original article which craigy refers to is here and these guys have approached it as trying to duplicate the factory method as nearly as possible. The information , if you read the full article explains the effect of even slightly over annealing, as no spring back, but it also means that neck tension is lower to non existant and you would have to fully resize the case about 20 times to get somewhere near the original condition. http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html

Redfox

[silentsoulsleave308holes]

here are some pics I took whilst at the largest ammo manufacturer in the world

 

there are a couple of one of the anealing turntables and other pics that others may not have seen before

 

hope it helps

 

 

 

 

 

 

[silentsoulsleave308holes]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[silentsoulsleave308holes]