Lock Blade Knives

[Vermincinerator]

Hi Guys,

I keep on reading and am being told that it is illegal to carry lock blade folding knives in public, regardless of blade length (sub 3" )

I have scoured the Violent Crime Reduction Act and all previous legislation and cannot find any mention of this.

Do lock blades fall under the same category that include ballisong and butterfly knives?

Can anyone spread some light on the subject. Thanks

 

Ian.

[Guest pete01]

Yes they are all classed as the same.

 

The Criminal Justice Act (1988) says that you must not carry a knife with a blade greater than 3 inches or 7.5 cm in length. It also says that the blade must be folding e.g non lockable.

 

The Offensive Weapons Act (1996) and The Knives Act (1997) also apply and have a bearing on the offence of carrying an offensive weapon without lawful authority or reasonable excuse..

[Guest varmartin]

Does that mean if it is less than 3 inch and locks its illegal even on a tool belt ?

 

Martin

[Guest vim]

.

[Redfox]

Locking as in "flick knives" either telescopic or folding is illegal, locking for safety, as in filleting or animal dressing is not. As Vim says it is down to interpretation and "need / lawful use". No one is entitled to require you to cut your fingers off whilst field dressing a deer or other quarry.

Hanging out in the bar of the nearest local with one on your belt would get you in court, because you could remove it and lock it in the vehicle etc or put it in a bag and ask landlord to look after it etc etc , the law is many times and ass, but if you have taken all reasonable steps, you will be ok.

Redfox

[Cornishman]

I have access to a legal data base and a while ago looked all of this up as I used to carry a locking blade knife routinely.

 

Broadly you can think of knives in three categories:

 

1) Offensive Weapons per se - these are flick knives, butterfly knives as well as knuckledusters etc. There are no excuses for being in possession of one of these in a public place. 'Public place' includes in your car by the way. And being in possession means having the knife close to hand, not necessarily physically on your person.

 

2) fixed blade knives and knives with a blade length over 3". Originally locking blades were thought to be categorised as folders but a subsequent court case held that they are to be treated as fixed blades. In other words any locking blade knife is in this category. The law says you can't have one of these in your possession without 'reasonable' excuse. 'Reasonable' is to be determined by the court. This is terrible legislation as it means if you carry one you will always be in some kind of peril - your local bobby might not like your face and could arrest you. You then have to show that you had 'reasonable' excuse. In most cases this means the local cops will offer you a caution if you sign away title to the knife. For an FAC holder this is a disaster as a caution counts as an admission of guilt and a conviction and you will likely lose your FAC. If you are in possession of such a knife while you're out rabbiting you're OK so stand your ground but don't have one in your pocket when you go clubbing. The police will have 'points to prove' in all of this and one point with be that you knew you were in possession. For example if someone else left a knife in your car without your knowledge you would not be guilty of possession. If you had it in your pocket but had forgotten it was there you might even get away with that on a good day but I'd not bank on it.

 

3) OK knives. These are folding knives with a blade length of less than 3". Still lots of room for doubt here about whether 'blade' is just the cutting edge or the whole thing, if the blade is serrated do you measure in the ups and downs, etc. If you need/want to carry such a knife it's probably best to make it a gentleman's folder/penknife.

 

Most cops are fine and won't hassle you if you obviously are behaving yourself and have a fair reason for carrying a knife but there's always the odd asshole so it pays to know the rules. If anyone wants to know chapter and verse I'll look up the details.

 

Needless to say this ain't legal advice, just my understanding of what's on the legal database (don't ask because I don't want to put the details on a public forum!).

[Vermincinerator]

Thanks for that cornishman, you have spelled that out in laymans terms.

 

Ian.

[Guest pete01]

I have access to a legal data base and a while ago looked all of this up as I used to carry a locking blade knife routinely.

 

Broadly you can think of knives in three categories:

 

1) Offensive Weapons per se - these are flick knives, butterfly knives as well as knuckledusters etc. There are no excuses for being in possession of one of these in a public place. 'Public place' includes in your car by the way. And being in possession means having the knife close to hand, not necessarily physically on your person.

 

2) fixed blade knives and knives with a blade length over 3". Originally locking blades were thought to be categorised as folders but a subsequent court case held that they are to be treated as fixed blades. In other words any locking blade knife is in this category. The law says you can't have one of these in your possession without 'reasonable' excuse. 'Reasonable' is to be determined by the court. This is terrible legislation as it means if you carry one you will always be in some kind of peril - your local bobby might not like your face and could arrest you. You then have to show that you had 'reasonable' excuse. In most cases this means the local cops will offer you a caution if you sign away title to the knife. For an FAC holder this is a disaster as a caution counts as an admission of guilt and a conviction and you will likely lose your FAC. If you are in possession of such a knife while you're out rabbiting you're OK so stand your ground but don't have one in your pocket when you go clubbing. The police will have 'points to prove' in all of this and one point with be that you knew you were in possession. For example if someone else left a knife in your car without your knowledge you would not be guilty of possession. If you had it in your pocket but had forgotten it was there you might even get away with that on a good day but I'd not bank on it.

 

3) OK knives. These are folding knives with a blade length of less than 3". Still lots of room for doubt here about whether 'blade' is just the cutting edge or the whole thing, if the blade is serrated do you measure in the ups and downs, etc. If you need/want to carry such a knife it's probably best to make it a gentleman's folder/penknife.

 

Most cops are fine and won't hassle you if you obviously are behaving yourself and have a fair reason for carrying a knife but there's always the odd asshole so it pays to know the rules. If anyone wants to know chapter and verse I'll look up the details.

 

Needless to say this ain't legal advice, just my understanding of what's on the legal database (don't ask because I don't want to put the details on a public forum!).

 

Just to clarify one point. Any knife that locks its blade in place, which then requires a lever or button to be operated in order to allow its release no matter what its length requires the processor to have lawfull authority or reasonable excuse. If you have none you are open to being charged with carrying an offensive weapon.

[6mmBR]

Thanks lads a very interesting and informative thread. it has cleared up a few misconceptions I had myself about lock knives.

Thanks again

Dave

[stag1933]

That bit about `lawful authority` is sometimes ignored by the Police.

In October a friend and I went to Ireland to hunt Sika via Holyhead.

At the port we were stopped and asked if we had firearms and ammo. We said `yes` and had to produce said items.

5 Port staff and one policeman were present. A locked box containing about 20 rounds of .270 ammo also contained a folding lock-blade knife. The Port staff refused to allow us to carry the ammo and this was taken into custody by the policeman.

He then took the knife and said if it was not `surrendered` the owner would be arrested, fingerprinted etc, etc, a task which would take 5 hours.

It was reluctantly handed over and details of a senior officer at Holyhead were obtained.

Upon our return after much wasted time it was retrieved.

 

Even though Irish hunting permits were produced `lawful authority` was not accepted.

 

HWH.

[Vermincinerator]

Stag,

I remember reading your post before and i must say that i think you were very badly treated and the copper present was way out of order,

Threatening you with arrest if you did not surrender what is afterall your private property is totally unacceptable.

IMO the police in this country have to many powers to harras ordinary citizens going about their daily business and its gonna get worse.

 

Ian.