Rifle Barrel Choices -LW, Truflite, Archer etc

[NICK]

Gents.

I did not want to Hijack Evan`s thread about Walther Barrels so thought i would start a new one.

As said i am replacing my Lothar and am looking for a new Barrel. I note that Tru-Flight are available and have read some good things about them.

Does anyone on the site have any experience of them they could pass on? Good or bad is fine.

 

Thank you.

 

Nick.

[sauer]

my brother had his .22-250 re-barreled after shooting out original and he is delighted with the accuracy of his

 

his mate and mine just had his .25-06 re-barreled in 6.5 x .284 with a trueflyte barrel and is delighted also

 

 

only two i know of but both very happy campers

 

 

sauer /paul

[Fergal]

There the only thing I use. they give me what I need, precision, accuracy, lead time. dependability and overall customer satisfaction. I use Truflite excusively and cant see that changing.

[baldie]

I would take a button rifled truflite in front of EVERY barrel , apart from Bartlien out there.

 

They are absolutely fabulous barrels.

[brown dog]

Chaps, genuine question, not a wind-up :

 

How are you assessing the relative merits of, say, an LW vs Archer vs truflite?

 

I'm guessing we're debating shades of grey here; and we're discussing gut feel and 'ease of getting' rather than empirically observable differences in precision and perfomance.

 

I have trouble believing there's any empirical difference between the 3 button brands listed.

I have seen so many Archers shoot so outstandingly that I have learnt that the 'cut Border vs button Archer' is meaningless (other than in the minds of those holding one view or the other )

 

So does this 'difference between top-end buttons' debate actually go any deeper than voodoo and gut feel? Is there anything empirical to your views?

[brown dog]

Just noticed Edi's piece in the Lothar thread; think it'd make sense if we bring this together in one 'button rifle debate'. I'll close that thread and we'll take it forward on this one.

 

Edi's piece:

 

On German forums the trend seems to be more towards Lothar Walther, Nationals are being won

and the increased life span of these barrels seems to be one factor. In one case they compared

identical cal and load shot at the same competitions, the LW had twice the lifespan of the

US barrel.

On my hunting rifle I am more than happy with my LW, does exactly what I need. Shoots to the same

point hot or cold, clean or dirty. Shoots just about any ammo well.

Just had a Border cut barrel fitted to my 243 by Fergal, looking forward to it's performance.

edi

[Davy]

I was discussing this very subject with someone who I consider to be one of the most knowledgeable living action and trigger designers a few days ago and he raised a valid point which hopefully he will not mind me posting.

 

"Also, the market is over-saturated by all those american small makers who all claims they make the best, when we know they all use the same steel , same tools, same deep boring and reaming machines, same drills and reamers, same rifling tools or buttons; same rifling presses or benches.... what is left for a skilled machinist to make a difference between a brand or another?.. NONE, or, if t is to be indulgent, very little..."

 

Personally I use Border cut rifled and True-Flite button rifled and the NZ offering is very good indeed. I watched my wife shoot a 30mm 5 shot group at 656 yards last week off an F/TR type bipod with a True-Flight. I seriously doubt there is a barrel in this world that would give her rifle better results.

 

She also put in a stunning 5 shot group from cold that was not far off this so for her at least T-F is the way to go. In her words they are "Very good" They are also competitively priced. Of course the barrel is just part of the equation and you need an equally good chamber cut by a knowledgeable machinist.... or a lot of luck.

 

EDIT - I just asked and she tells me she has put 792 rounds through the barrel now.

[brown dog]

 

"Also, the market is over-saturated by all those american small makers who all claims they make the best, when we know they all use the same steel , same tools, same deep boring and reaming machines, same drills and reamers, same rifling tools or buttons; same rifling presses or benches.... what is left for a skilled machinist to make a difference between a brand or another?.. NONE, or, if t is to be indulgent, very little..."

 

 

Yup, I can't see how it's anything beyond shades of grey (or gray ).

[6.5shooter]

I use a mixture of border cut and archer barrels on 4 of my rifles and they are all stunning.

Some may be a little bullet fussy and time has to be spent finding a bullet that suits the barrel.

I have never used any other brand of barrel but I cant see me changing from border as I cant see any reason to change from them and they are british made.

I think any barrels from any of the top makers will be fine and you will be splitting hairs to determine one apart from the other when a good load is developed for each.

Just my view as a shooter.

 

Garry

[Davy]

Yup, I can't see how it's anything beyond shades of grey (or gray ).

The exceptions come when people do things differently, like S&L with their process for cut rifling and lapping on their own blanks. Hopefully the small houses such as S&L will not succumb to the need for the latest CNC systems and generic barrel blanks.

[DaveT]

Gents.

I did not want to Hijack Evan`s thread about Walther Barrels so thought i would start a new one.

As said i am replacing my Lothar and am looking for a new Barrel. I note that Tru-Flight are available and have read some good things about them.

Does anyone on the site have any experience of them they could pass on? Good or bad is fine.

 

Thank you.

 

Nick.

 

 

Nick

 

Baldie on this forum has just built me a 260 Rem with a Truflite varmint barrel....... talk about accuracy!!!

 

I have load development targets (admitedly only at 100 yards to date) that show bullets dropping into a very tidy '1 ragged hole' across several contiguous loads (in this case 41 through 42 grains of Viht N550 under a 123grain Scenar.

 

I was previously completely certain that I only ever wanted cut-rifled barrels and have Kriegers etc so I was a little worried when I could not lay my hands on a Krieger or Bartlein for the new 260.

 

Baldie has always given me sound advice and asked me to try the Truflite and now I would not hesitate to go with a Truflite.

[Elwood]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Bartlien are cut rifled.

[DaveT]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Bartlien are cut rifled.

 

 

Absolutely.... did I confuse somehow?

[Elwood]

Absolutely.... did I confuse somehow?

 

No Dave, the initial post includes Bartlien in the list.

[baldie]

Apologies chaps, i stated that i would take a truflite every time, only bettered by bartlien. Bartliens are indeed cut.

 

Truflites button barrels shoot better than most other brands of cut blank. The steel is better quality.

 

Dont let anyone tell you that all the barrel steels are the same, nothing could be further from the truth. You can get several barrels all made from the same "grade" of stainless, and all will be different colours.

 

I worked in a steelworks actually making stainless steel for a few years inbetween the gun trade, and stainless can vary hugely, and still be in specification.

 

Trust me, i can tell who is using cheap Polish, and foreign made stainless.....it shows on the machining, and reaming. When you hit hard and soft spots in a blank, i always think the steel aint that great. There is good quality stainless made allover the world, and Sheffield stainless is still one of the best.

 

Its very difficult to explain to a layman who doesn,t fit barrels, but anyone who has fitted plenty will tell you, that you can feel/tell when a barrel is going to be a good one, purely by the way it machines up....generally. Some blanks are hard work, and only make average shooters, but a good blank, that machines well, usually produces the goods, and usually with a wide variety of bullets/powders.

 

Truflite are a good example of this. Their barrels are very un-fussy, and seem to shoot most things.

 

There isn,t a lot between all the makers, but some pay far more attention to lapping than others, thus producing a better blank.

[Evan]

Hi Again

Just like to thank everybody for there opinions and replys

all very interesting i probably will be sending out a few PMs

after this for more advice on my build idea

many thanks once again

Evan

[Ronin]

Very true re hard and soft spots Dave - and when they come they are a PITA to ream......

[Fergal]

I think Baldie (I hate calling him that) Dave summed this up pretty sweetly. The sheer feel of a good barrel when its being machined tells you there and then just how good its going to shoot. If any of you ever get the chance the to stand over a smith while he's perhaps threading a factory barrel just watch how Sh**y the machine reacts to the crap steel, poor surface finish, irregular chip flow, just sh*t all the way. Very hard to beat a good barrel manufacturer like Border, Trueflite, Krieger, Bartlein etc.

[skany]

no ideah on the machining point but my shillen & pacnor both shot/shoot very well!

 

saying that the parker hale 7.62 tube shoots as good too!

 

i almost went bartlin on my 6br but the bore size of the one foxy had in stock was more suited to the old bergers then the amax so I went pacnor!

 

cheers Andy

[NICK]

Gents.

Thank you for the excellent replies, i am very gratefull.

I am sure i will have posted before advising someone or other that the bespoke Barrel makers all make an excellent product and there is only a ciggy paper between them. Logically i still believe that, but LW are not having my money next time, so a Tru-Flite will be ordered.

 

As only the best grade of Tru-Flite are imported, ultra-match in this case, my next questions are born out of curiousity.

 

I note that generally the Button Barrel makers grade their Barrels. Am i correct in thinking that unlike Cut Rifling some Buttoned Barrels come out better than others and are then measured and sorted and priced accordingley?

 

Would a Varmint or Stalking Rifle shooter, even one as Anal about Handloading and Accuracy as us Forum members tend to be:D, be able to tell the difference?

 

Does the Customer of a Button Barrel maker that does not measure and sort get sent whatever comes off the machine? One Customer getting a wonderfull Bench quality Barrel and the next getting a Sporting Rifle Barrel? A little like someone getting an Ultra-Match and the next Guy getting a Premium Sporter Grade for the same money? If so seems a bit of a Lottery to play with your hard earned Cash.

 

Thanks again.

 

Nick.

[baldie]

Your guarantee is whether the barrel has been air guaged Nick. This is how button barrels are sorted into qualities. If they aren,t, you could well get a barrel that was drawn at the end of the buttons life....and it will be a shitter.

[Chris-NZ]

Well, I have an indirect answer to this, certainly in regard to True-Flite.

 

My gunsmith (who has been building NZ Team rifles for yonks) once had a bog-standard True-Flite on an NRA rifle. This barrel was made just before the current owners took over and upped the quality. It was the cheapest non-match version they sold and it shot like you wouldn't believe.

 

I'm about to get one of theirs for a new .280 Ackley and it'll be their "Std sporter" version. I'll be very surprised if I'm disappointed

 

Chris-NZ

[onehole]

Hi ,you wanted good or bad experience with barrels.well personally I have been able to tell the difference between the original LW that came on my RPA223 and then when it was rebarrelled with a Pacnor super match tube by Dashernan.The original was good but not quite as good as this one,,,,

My 6BR and 6BRN RPA,s which I believe were also LW,s have been wearing Kreigers now for some time ,rebarrelled by Russ Gall and generally shoot a little better than their original LW,s.My last barrel job and build was in 308 on an RPA again by Dasherman but because of time factors in getting a Bartlein I chose for Neil to use a Border 5R instead and this tube is superbly accurate.Eventually my order for Bartlein replacements turned up in 6mm and 30 cal and they are in the cuphoard for next time ,no doubt they will be as good.The most accurate rifle I have at the moment is the rebarrelled 223 by Neil this shoots in the .1s a lot of the time and I have one group of three that litterally looks like one bullet hole!{bottom left}I think I can say I have not missed any quarry yet out to 250 yards with this rifle on 50 Vmax,s.

Having said that I have seen similar results from my other calibre rebarrels but this little 223 is stunning!!!

On another point I fondly remember the accuracy from the factory barrels fitted to my old Sako 75,s in 222,223 and 6PPC and of course the TRG.

Here are some groups shot with my 223,,,,,,,,,Cheers onehole.

Of course barrels and smithing is only part of it,,,,,,you gotta feed it and shoot it good too!! but generally I would say that any of the quality tubes should get you some tight little holes.

[NICK]

One Hole.

 

Thanks for the feedback, those are stunning groups and do you proud. I too have a Krieger on my 6.5x284, it is super accurate as is my 30-06 Lilja. My LW on the other hand just will not come together. I would have fancied another Krieger but the only people i heard had some were Jackson Rifles but they never answered my e-mail. Brian Fox on the other hand was very helpfull.

 

Thanks again.

 

Nick.

 

 

[baldie]

What krieger are you after Nick ? I have a few in stock.