foxing2night Posted October 19, 2007 Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 Hi gents, I have just bought some winchester 17 hmr?? and this morning there was no wind at all, so off down the fields to do a bit of testing??? These were the results?? And then some hornady 17hmr What a nice little round Best round out for rabbiting All the best f2n Oh yes forgot to say the price per box was £9.60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varminter Posted October 19, 2007 Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 Hi Darrel thanks for that test buddy!!! :lol: I shall see if can get some to try down here!!! All the best...................... RAY............................. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millpool Posted October 19, 2007 Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 hi darryl what mod is on your hmr? any good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest northernchris Posted October 19, 2007 Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 I would just use the cheapest HMR ammo you can lay your hands on as they are ALL made to EXACTLY the same spec by CCI. same bullet (different colour tip) case (makers own head stamp) powder (hodgedon lil,gun) with the exception of S+B find a good batch of whatever and by a shed load Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kip270 Posted October 19, 2007 Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 £9.60 per box!!!!!!! £11.50 with me!!! Was using CCI TNT's but now using these Winne's and they are great, the Squirrel's don't like them at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest northernchris Posted October 19, 2007 Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 My local shop charges £18 a 100 for Remington Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 308Panther Posted October 20, 2007 Report Share Posted October 20, 2007 Its about $8.50/box of Hornady and most are a few cents of each other. Found the Federal,Rem, shot the same...1.5 inches low and right. CCI shot about as good as the Hornady stuff but still got best groups with Hornady....CCI groups were 1/4 inch oa larger. Havent seen or tried the Wins yet...and will not make a big rush to do so. I used to shoot alot of rimfire pistol.While doin so I found I got alot of dead rounds with Win rimfire ammo. If I see it on sale I may try some...but it would really have to be marked down alot below the Hornady stuff. Not impressed with Win rimfire ammo..... 308Panther Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest varmartin Posted October 20, 2007 Report Share Posted October 20, 2007 £8.60 for the remmington stuff at my local... Are they all the same ??? My gun likes the gold tip stuff and the CCI TNT gold tip red tip 17 grain 20 grain Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest northernchris Posted October 20, 2007 Report Share Posted October 20, 2007 All the plastic tipped rounds are EXACTLY the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest varmartin Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 I previously thought they were, but have read on numerous occasions of tests carried out with velocity ES`s different between brands. Remington having the lowest of 33 fps or so.....proved correct in my rifle with a friends crono. not yet tried any other comparisons. I can only get the Big Green stuff any way.....( of all the polymer tip stuff) CCI TNT shoot very well all into an inch@100 with my CZ Varmint and Bushnell Trophy 3-9x40 scope. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest northernchris Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 I did see an email 2 years ago from CCI stating the above,but things may have changed.I do know that all the different ballistic tipped bullets shot the same in my HMR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootingbags Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 I did see an email 2 years from CCI stating the above,but things may have changed.I do know that all the different ballistic tipped bullets shot the same in my HMR. They definitely don't shoot the same in mine. Hornady akways shoot better then the Remington. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxing2night Posted October 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 Remington are crap in my annie as well???? hornady have been the best along with seller and beliot and now ,,,, you guest it?????? Winchester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest varmartin Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 Ummmmmm....I guess I had better try some Winchester HMR rounds then.. Trouble is getting hold of the buggers Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 308Panther Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 F2N, Just out of curiosity what is the marked velocity on the box?? Its a touch blurry and the large pic doesnt clear it up. From the looks of your grouping I would guess the speed is a touch higher then the Hornady...and from what I can make out it appears to read 2950 fps....wich would be 300fps faster then Hornady's stuff as they claimed to be 2650....... If thats the case maybe the Win stuff might be worth lookin into....? 308Panther Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxing2night Posted October 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 F2N,Just out of curiosity what is the marked velocity on the box?? Its a touch blurry and the large pic doesnt clear it up. From the looks of your grouping I would guess the speed is a touch higher then the Hornady...and from what I can make out it appears to read 2950 fps....wich would be 300fps faster then Hornady's stuff as they claimed to be 2650....... If thats the case maybe the Win stuff might be worth lookin into....? 308Panther Hi panther, The velocity on the box is 2550!!!! They just seem to want to go in the same group All the best from wales darrel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 All 17 HMR ammo is made at the same plant with the same components. What does change, lot to lot, is the degree of "Quality Control". This makes for threads like this one where someone gets a good run of Winchester and everyone else buys a bunch. The next shipment will have Remington shooting best. Then CCI. Then back to Hornady. I have two, ten box bricks of Hornady ammo (bought on sale) that are absolutely inferior to every other Lot of HMR I've tried since the cartridge was introduced. This sour batch taught me to buy in small quantities and ride out the QC issue in short spurts. Considering the price you folks pay, I'd advise the same. Get a box and if it is accurate enough for you, buy some of the same Lot. Otherwise just buy what's cheapest that week. ~Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest varmartin Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 Cheers Andrew...that`s cleared that up..good advise Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 308Panther Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 It isnt QC thats has a variance...its load specs by the differant brand names http://www.chuckhawks.com/17HMR.htm This article has some interesting notes on zero and wind effect as well. Good Read. CCI is manufaucture of the HMR ammo for 4 differant brand names. Hornady,Federal, Remington,and of course CCI Interesting enough also is that CCI is the parent company to Speer bullets.... There isnt a date on the article,and no mention of Winchester either so one can only guess the article to be as current as 2003-04. It wasnt untill this thread opened that I was aware of Win distributing .17 HMR ammo. I usually only buy 3-4 packs at a crack....so I really havent been lookin for any as I am good for a while yet....I even managed to find a couple boxes of Rem stuff I thought I had shot off... If they can maintain a qc on them it certainly isnt going to hurt the Winchester name any God knows they do need all the help they can get. 308Panther Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 I only know what I was told. When I was at the SHOT show last year I talked to some folks who would know and they confirmed what I said about the QC. Industrias Tecnos used to do the same thing for PMC in their rimfire line: The ammo was exactly the same except that the machinery was slowed down 20% when it was going to be boxed as "PMC" Hence, you'd get threads saying that PMC was better than Aguila (IT) when they were really the same ammo with different QC parameters. I did some barrel testing for Green Mountain back when the HMR was brand new and I had some very early ammo. It was accurate and devastating on game. I built three rifles for it: Two on Ruger 77 actions with custom Green Mountain barrels. Life was good. Suddenly the ammunition changed. I was getting wounded ground squirrels (a rodent about the size of a medium salt shaker) and solidly hit cottontail rabbit were crawling away. These were <100 yards shots. Some of us think that in the third production cycle CCI switched copper thickness or jacket strength. For whatever reason, since that time it's been a crap shoot finding ammo that will act predictably. After a marine sniper friend of mine failed to anchor 7 of 8 prairiedogs at 60 - 90 yards last fall I racked the 17's in favor of the 22WMR or Hornet. I still like the HMR but it's too much of a P.I.A. to use... ~Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 308Panther Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 I have a hard time believing the .17HMR couldnt drop a ground squirrel at 60-90 yrds.....They arent that big or that tough. I am not doubting your word... or your buddys shooting ability...So please dont go there. and in an example such as that something must have been very very wrong for that to happen. I have been fortunate to have gotten horizontal cartwheels off most of the head shot grey squirrels from 30 -70 yrds... there where some that the exit wounds were slightly more then others....just figured it was the bone density/location of the hit...even tho they were head shot/it was in differant parts of the head...and or squirrels age... You didnt by chance contact the manufacture and and run down a lot number? or see if it was on a recall list? If the .17 cal bullet cant decently kill a ground squirrel...somethin is definatley gotta be wrong. 308Panther Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 I wouldn't go there, don't worry. No need. The problem was no expansion. No, I didn't contact CCI. These were the small gopher/ chipmunk like squirrels found on the Mexican border. I would blow the same squirrel to ribbons using 30 grain Federal 22WMR @ 2300 ft/sec. I thought that more body mass would help so I tagged a few cottontail. I was amazed to see some wander off after being hit where previously, they just went down like the Hand of God had hit them. When I moved back to MT I took a buddy out and he was connecting out to 150 yards with my hyper accurate Ruger but was just p--sing the prairiedogs off. I would hit them with a WMR and they would be finished. I'm not saying it killed nothing. I'm saying it killed unreliably past about 70 yards. I have shot a heap of 17HMR. Along with the Ruger 77s I have a custom, octagonal barreled 96/17 and a stock Marlin bolt action. All are accurate with the right Lot. In fact, even that "Inaccurate" lot I have in my basement is more accurate than many rimfire rounds. It just varies so much that it's a little maddening. Like I said, I'm just tired of the roulette wheel. The 22WMR seems to be a lot more consistent with regards to killing well. ~Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 308Panther Posted October 24, 2007 Report Share Posted October 24, 2007 Back in the 60's the ol man got his hands on a Marlin lever hammerless in .22WMR from an Air Force Buddy of his.....They used to go out and shoot ground squirrels. The ol man took one out at 300yrds w/open sights... Thats 150 yrds farther than I like to push a scoped .17HMR. And I know for a fact that ol Marlin will still shoot. Last time I had it out I had a 3/8 in 5 shot group at 100 yrds Best I got with my HMR is 5/8 in... 308Panther Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted October 24, 2007 Report Share Posted October 24, 2007 I have seven 22WMR's: Three Marlins, a CZ, a Ruger 96, a Savage Striker, and a Brno 611. On an average, I can't say that the HMR is always more accurate than the WMR. My Marlin SSV heavy barrel would shoot under an inch at 150M on a calm day. I once fired twenty shots into an inch and a quarter at 100 yards from the top of a camera tripod using my CZ 452. (And this on a life-like / life sized cotton tail rabbit target.) Still... my Ruger 77 with the 17HMR Green Mountain "Running Boar" barrel once shot 7/8" at 200M on a cool desert morning using the remnants of the good Hornady ammo I had from the first production run. (whew!) ~Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davo Posted October 28, 2007 Report Share Posted October 28, 2007 I only know what I was told. When I was at the SHOT show last year I talked to some folks who would know and they confirmed what I said about the QC. Industrias Tecnos used to do the same thing for PMC in their rimfire line: The ammo was exactly the same except that the machinery was slowed down 20% when it was going to be boxed as "PMC" Hence, you'd get threads saying that PMC was better than Aguila (IT) when they were really the same ammo with different QC parameters. I did some barrel testing for Green Mountain back when the HMR was brand new and I had some very early ammo. It was accurate and devastating on game. I built three rifles for it: Two on Ruger 77 actions with custom Green Mountain barrels. Life was good. Suddenly the ammunition changed. I was getting wounded ground squirrels (a rodent about the size of a medium salt shaker) and solidly hit cottontail rabbit were crawling away. These were <100 yards shots. Some of us think that in the third production cycle CCI switched copper thickness or jacket strength. For whatever reason, since that time it's been a crap shoot finding ammo that will act predictably. After a marine sniper friend of mine failed to anchor 7 of 8 prairiedogs at 60 - 90 yards last fall I racked the 17's in favor of the 22WMR or Hornet. I still like the HMR but it's too much of a P.I.A. to use... ~Andrew What brand of ammo produced these results or should I say failed to produce results, so I know not to buy them. I can't understand why?? given the level of skill you're friend must have as a 'sniper'. I regularly shoot Rabbits out to 120-150yds and they are stone dead using Remington, CCI and Hornady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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