legion Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 Guys Where does the .204 hornaday sit on the home office guidlines supplied to police FEOs, does anyone use the calibre and how do you rate it for a long range vermin/mid range fox round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sporting rifles Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 Guys Where does the .204 hornaday sit on the home office guidlines supplied to police FEOs, does anyone use the calibre and how do you rate it for a long range vermin/mid range fox round. its fine for vermin and fox,there is a lot of hype regarding its performance as long as you keep within its limits just like any other caliber you will be fine,if you want to shoot past 200 yards personally I would go for something bigger with a heavier bullet its down to what you want from the caliber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dogge Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 Have a look at "Firearms Law - Guidance to the Police" which you can download here http://www.basc.org.uk/en/departments/firearms/guidance-and-fact-sheets.cfm Specifically the table on P77, it doesnt list 204 by name (it's from 2002), but I'd put it in the bottom end of the second category, fox being the default good reason. It says "No" to vermin for that category, but I think it is certain to be approverd for a 204. I recently asked for vermin to be added to my 243 conditions and was told no (West Mercia), when I said in that case I wanted a 204 for vermin they said that was fine, I could have another gun no problem, but couldn't shoot vermin with my 243. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legion Posted January 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 just the reason i asked, i can shoot vermin with my .17 hmr but not with my 22/250, my thoughts being getting a calibre that i can shoot both with, the 204 ammo seems expensive, so therefore i will have to reload so may as well go for a 20tac or something similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 Have a look at "Firearms Law - Guidance to the Police" which you can download here http://www.basc.org.uk/en/departments/firearms/guidance-and-fact-sheets.cfm Specifically the table on P77, it doesnt list 204 by name (it's from 2002), but I'd put it in the bottom end of the second category, fox being the default good reason. It says "No" to vermin for that category, but I think it is certain to be approverd for a 204. I recently asked for vermin to be added to my 243 conditions and was told no (West Mercia), when I said in that case I wanted a 204 for vermin they said that was fine, I could have another gun no problem, but couldn't shoot vermin with my 243. I thought I read somewhere that if someone with a 6mm caliber wanted vermin added then the Police had to show good reason not to, I suggest you talk to BASC about the issue unless you want another rifle. 204 is a perfectly good fox/vermin caliber, the 39 gr SIERRA BLITZKING is usually the best terminal performing bullet offering excellent accuracy sub 250 yards. It outperforms 222 and 223, less drop, less drift although these are only a matter of a few inches. Downside is a reduced (when compared to .22) range of factory ammo and reloader's bullet's but you wont go far wrong with the Sierra. A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 just the reason i asked, i can shoot vermin with my .17 hmr but not with my 22/250, my thoughts being getting a calibre that i can shoot both with, the 204 ammo seems expensive, so therefore i will have to reload so may as well go for a 20tac or something similar. Prac 20 would be a better choice than 204 or TAC 20. Its the same as Tac 20 but with a no turn neck. Not being able to shoot vermin with a 22.250 I find very surprising, again I suggest you talk to BASC. A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch_egg Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 Alycidon, .20 Tac has no need for a neck turn and can be formed from .223 brass just the same as the .20 Practical. I have had an argument about 6mm for vermin/fox alone but with deer you should be able to get all three. However the .20's use less powder so will be cheaper to shoot. Plus it is always another excuse for another rifle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybrock Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 Alycidon, .20 Tac has no need for a neck turn and can be formed from .223 brass just the same as the .20 Practical. I have had an argument about 6mm for vermin/fox alone but with deer you should be able to get all three. However the .20's use less powder so will be cheaper to shoot. Plus it is always another excuse for another rifle I'm just going through the charade of renewing my FAC and have been told I can't shoot vermin with my 22ppc or 6mmppc I have to either use my 22rf or fac air gun and I'm a pest controller, I do it for a living! ummm so what about the crow 250 yards away pecking lambs eyes out? suppose I'll have to improve my stalking skills!! I don't want to say too much at the moment as I have a list of "issues" regarding my renewal which are on going and I may need to take advise on. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrelsniffer Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 I'm just going through the charade of renewing my FAC and have been told I can't shoot vermin with my 22ppc or 6mmppc I have to either use my 22rf or fac air gun and I'm a pest controller, I do it for a living! ummm so what about the crow 250 yards away pecking lambs eyes out? suppose I'll have to improve my stalking skills!! I don't want to say too much at the moment as I have a list of "issues" regarding my renewal which are on going and I may need to take advise on. Andy Andy im going throught same as you with cheshire its been going on since may last yr.. BASC were NO use but have had NGO on case since may. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldon Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Guys as I have said before on here and I know others have the same, West Yorkshire force allow me to use my .308 for vermin as long as deer is my primary reason. Note, not whilst deerstalking as this makes lamping a dubious topic I would push it with your organisation SACS, BASC etc sounds like the Cheshire force is going against ACPO recommendations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legion Posted January 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 The FEOs are using the table as issued by the home office to the letter, the problem is there is not really any overlap in the groups and its out of date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 I'm just going through the charade of renewing my FAC and have been told I can't shoot vermin with my 22ppc or 6mmppc I have to either use my 22rf or fac air gun and I'm a pest controller, I do it for a living! ummm so what about the crow 250 yards away pecking lambs eyes out? suppose I'll have to improve my stalking skills!! I don't want to say too much at the moment as I have a list of "issues" regarding my renewal which are on going and I may need to take advise on. Andy The 20s are superb vermin calibers, I use a 20BR and it tends to be my go to rifle despite its weight. Ballistics on 22PPC cant be far from a 220 Swift, I would suggest you have a look at the ballistics of say a 55gr bullet from each, compare and plonk the info in front of your firearms manager rather than the FEO. My FEO wanted to license my 20BR as a 204 Ruger !!. BASC are usually excellent in these cases. Anybody got a copy of this table?. A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybrock Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 The 20s are superb vermin calibers, I use a 20BR and it tends to be my go to rifle despite its weight. Ballistics on 22PPC cant be far from a 220 Swift, I would suggest you have a look at the ballistics of say a 55gr bullet from each, compare and plonk the info in front of your firearms manager rather than the FEO. My FEO wanted to license my 20BR as a 204 Ruger !!. BASC are usually excellent in these cases. Anybody got a copy of this table?. A Good point, I think a lot of the problems are the powers that be not understanding modern calibers like ppc's, br's etc. Another point he mentioned the other day will ruffle a few feathers is that at renewal .243 will no longer be allowed for fox only, this will be country wide not just Cheshire. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22/250 foxer Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Have a look at "Firearms Law - Guidance to the Police" which you can download here http://www.basc.org.uk/en/departments/firearms/guidance-and-fact-sheets.cfm Specifically the table on P77, it doesnt list 204 by name (it's from 2002), but I'd put it in the bottom end of the second category, fox being the default good reason. It says "No" to vermin for that category, but I think it is certain to be approverd for a 204. I recently asked for vermin to be added to my 243 conditions and was told no (West Mercia), when I said in that case I wanted a 204 for vermin they said that was fine, I could have another gun no problem, but couldn't shoot vermin with my 243. thats a surprize they have allways been good to me. i have vermin fox and muntjac on 222 and 22/250, changing 222 to 17 rem fb so its going to be vermin and fox now. and 6mm slot that im sure will come back vermin fox and deer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidesy Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 .204 is a superb round for foxing and long range vermin bashing. 40 grain V Max in mine does the business on foxes well over 250 metres and they drop like a "bag of spanners"....would recommend a .204 without hesitation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigun Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 use mine for both foxing and long range vermin i found the 39gn blitzking best in mine..660yrds kill witnessed, best fox was 375mtrs .groups very well out to 550mtrs ..iv got mine down for fox and vermin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Must agree the 204 ruger is one of the most under rated rounds out there use mine for foxing and vermin control with great affect Very flat and very fast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 use mine for both foxing and long range vermin i found the 39gn blitzking best in mine..660yrds kill witnessed, best fox was 375mtrs .groups very well out to 550mtrs ..iv got mine down for fox and vermin I also find the 39gr SBK a better bullet than the 40gr vmax, more accurate, more destructive on impact. Crows in several bits. A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeSilva Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Then of course if you really wanted to push the boat out theres always the 20x47 Lapua, sub MOA out to a 1000 yards GULP!!! with 55grn Bergers. (that is of course if you have 1000 yards of land to shoot over lol) :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldie Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 That has flicked my switch too, De Silva. Though i shudder to think what the barrel life would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeSilva Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 My new custom build is overdue but from what ive read and been told RL17 is supposed to work very well and also the new 8202 XBR. Barrel life is going to be quite good so long as the load is not too hot so to speak. velocity for the 55's should be around 3800+ fps and the 50's around the 4000 mark. But like everything in this world time will tell. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 My new custom build is overdue but from what ive read and been told RL17 is supposed to work very well and also the new 8202 XBR. Barrel life is going to be quite good so long as the load is not too hot so to speak. velocity for the 55's should be around 3800+ fps and the 50's around the 4000 mark. But like everything in this world time will tell. :) Look at Hodgdon's latest data and IMR-8208XBR gives the highest MVs by quite a margin for the lighter bullets, and a close second for those above 40gn in .204 Ruger. There is a problem - a recent (like last week) query to Edgar Brothers re availability showed that EB not only has none in stock, but apparently hasn't heard of the powder 18 months on from its addition to the Hodgdon / IMR range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redfox Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 When quoting how wonderful BASC are, it is worth reminding people that, it was the BASC tossers who dreamed up this chart and then sold the idea to the Home Office in the first place, so they arent going to help you rubbish it now . Redfox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dogge Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 thats a surprize they have allways been good to me. i have vermin fox and muntjac on 222 and 22/250, changing 222 to 17 rem fb so its going to be vermin and fox now. and 6mm slot that im sure will come back vermin fox and deer How sure are you? have you seen this page http://www.westmercia.police.uk/firearm-certificate-conditions.html looks like a massive two fingers up to anybody who wants vermin on a 6mm, I'm told informally that nobody in west mercia has this (243 specifically). This is however, not the impression I got from BASC, so I have written to the licensing department asking them to review it and clarify the position and I await their response, which I'm pretty sure will be a "no", which I'll pass on to BASC and see what happens. It's probably not worth my while poking at this hornets nest, but I feel that the rule of law is at stake here, the law says we can do something, which we are prevented from doing by the whim of a policeman. That is not the way things are supposed to work here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyH Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 .... the rule of law is at stake here, the law says we can do something, which we are prevented from doing by the whim of a policeman. That is not the way things are supposed to work here. It's the way things have "worked" for a long time: the police have been tending to make up their own rules during the 30 or so years I've taken an interest in this sort of thing. Whether it's firearms security in the home, "suitable" calibres for this and that, carriage of firearms, individuals' supposed fitness to possess or retain firearms, informing the police before going shooting, etc etc, forces all over the UK have played fast and loose with the law in the full knowledge that it takes guts and deep pockets to fight them in the courts. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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