craigyboy Posted October 3, 2007 Report Share Posted October 3, 2007 just a quick question, I have 200 brass that I want to weight sort into groups, what leway should I allow for each group i.e 2g max variation, is this enough too much or too little, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lambert Babs Posted October 3, 2007 Report Share Posted October 3, 2007 just a quick question, I have 200 brass that I want to weight sort into groups, what leway should I allow for each group i.e 2g max variation, is this enough too much or too little, thanks. I presume that prior to weighing you have sorted them all by batch and the same headstamp and if possible from the same source. and that all the cases are trimmed to manufacturers COL if that been carried out then take a mean weight of the batch then check each case against the mean if there are differences above 2g max disgard to a reject pile only using those with conformity. Any excessive internal thickness of the brass should then be easily identified. Lambert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermincinerator Posted October 3, 2007 Report Share Posted October 3, 2007 Craigy, Seems to me like you're a secret closet wannabee Bench-rest shooter trying to burst out of a varmint shooters skin Plus or minus 1grn by the way Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigyboy Posted October 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2007 thanks for the replies lads, lambert the brass is all brand new laupa, neck turned, trimmed, de burred, primer pocket reamed and flash hole de-burred ready to be sorted. Ian I am starting to think this myself, lately I have been reading alot, I got a couple of good books and I the things I have learnt about are way beyond what i thought needed done, I know most of them may not make ANY difference but when I look at a target after shooting a group I like to think I have done the best that I am capable of so the more I find out about the more ill do, where do you stop! I thought I was handloading before its nothing compared to all this, but i must admit I am enjoying it, meticulous sort of guy by nature so this suits me down to the ground. Do you weight sort for Ian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermincinerator Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 Craigy, I used to segregate by weight only to find a matched set of "match" cases when i used to shoot BR, the rest would be stored in batches according to weight. However i drew the line at determining case volume using water, if you have gone that far you seriously need help Ian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 Over here we varmint shooters seem to be a bit more relaxed when it comes to applying BR technique to varmint hunting. I tend to go with same Lot, same Maker and not worry about the brass. About the most I do is neck turn (or ream, depending on the cartridge) but my shooting is limited to 400 yard prairiedogs. In light of this, I'm curious: What size groups are you trying to improve on, from what rifle, and at what ranges do you shoot? ~Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigyboy Posted October 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 Andrew I am prepping brass while I wait for my cooper coming back from the gunsmiths, its getting rebarrelled in tac20, I managed to get some laupa pre formed brass so I can go ahead with all the brass prep without fireforming, to be honest I dont really expect all these little things to make much difference I am doing it partly just to gain experience with this type of reloading so I am prepared when I will need to do it and also at the minute I find it all quite fun, my old loading techniques were a lot more basic and I am just having fun being very anal, as I say I am not expecting massive gains from all this just enjoying it though I do have an aim of at least 1 1/2" 5 shot groups at 300 m and hopefully a bit tighter, the best i could get with my old ways and factory barrel was 2 inches at 300m which is ok but a bit tighter would be nice. I probably wont shoot much past 500 metres with this rifle and even then that would need to be very still conditions. on the topic of being very anal, after neck turning a few cases I noticed that the tool leaves very slight ring marks which can barely be felt, I am taking off less than .001 so its not that I am cutting too deep. Would some sort of cutting fluid or light oil help? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 If the rings are very slight, I wouldn't worry. The general rule is that you should cut brass dry, though kerosene works to some extent. Try stoning a slight radius on your tool if it doesn't already have one. Of course, if I was taking less than .001" off, I wouldn't bother in the first place! I guess I understand your anal ways. I once did the same thing: Weighed brass, weighed bullets, weighed each charge to the Nth degree. It gave me something to do, I think, and I guess I derived some gains. One day, however, I was shooting jack rabbits in New Mexico with my 7MMBR Remington XP-100 and I came to the realization that I spent hours and hours measuring, turning, weighing, sorting, and lovingly packaging my 7BR rounds to hit a 200 yard target that was about a foot square in area. Untuned loads shot just under MOA from this pistol with ease. My tuned loads touched a half MOA on occasion. I suddenly realized it didn't make a difference. I had the same number of kills with either load. Of course, you folks seem to dote on your weapons more than we do. I have always suspected it was due to your more stringent gun laws. Here it's not uncommon to get amongst a group of avid "gunners" and find that several of them own over 100 firearms each. That dictates putting the time into the gun / task that merits the effort. You will seldom find one of these guys sorting brass, etal, on a 300 yard coyote rifle because it just doesn't warrant that kind of attention. On the other hand, the guys who indulge in chasing the fabled 1000 yard prairiedog shot will sink thousands of dollars and as many hours into load development. But these guys usually live and die by their prairiedogging. I have been shooting for as long as I can remember and shooters and their habits interest me. You still didn't mention what your game is. Varmints?? While I am a bit incredulous that someone would have a Cooper rebarreled on the hopes of gaining a 1/2" reduction in group size at 300M, I do wish you well in your endeavors. I look forward to reading about your gun. ~Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigyboy Posted October 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 Andrew I think youre right about the doteing on our guns a bit more, this is the only centrefire rifle I have which is partly why I am rebarreling as I fancied a change and cant just go out and buy a new one, previously it was chambered in .204 ruger and while it shot well the chamber was terriable, the longest brass I could find for it was 1.844, the chamber length was 1.867, I couldnt get bullets close rto the lands than about 0.050 at best at worst a 35g beregr was 0.100 of the lands. There was also a problem with the chamber in that it was eccesivley over sized, brass was showing a big bulge around the outside where it entered the chamber nearly 0.010 bigger than unfired brass, this was causing me to have to full length re-size each firing as if I neck sized only the bullet had to be rotated the right way up to allow the bolt to close. I got in touch with cooper about my problem and they changed reamer manufactuers over it, they offered to replace the barrel but it would take at least 6 months so I opted out as I had an idea I would change it myself at some point. Hopefully the new barrel will cut the group sizes a bit though I am not expecting massive improvements, another reason fo the change was that my old barrel didnt shoot a 40g bullet so well and I really like the 40g v-max so my new barrel was got in 1-11 which should shoot them alot better. I use this rifle for everything from fox shooting under lamp light to shooting crows and rabbits, my goal with the last barrel was a 300 yard rabbit I got this one easy enough so my new goal is a 500 yard rabbit, I will get a very good load worked up over winter and as soon as summer returns I will be out trying hard. Also part of the reason I am doing all this case prep is that at the minute I have nothing else to do so may as well use it well while I wait for the rifle to return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 Wow. All that guff from a Cooper! They are actually local to me (a couple hundred miles) and there are stocking dealers in the nearest city. I would have been camped on their door step until it was fixed. I understand the rebarreling now. A three hundred yard rabbit shouldn't have been too tough, should it? I have shot our small cottontails at 200+ with my Hornet. Five hundred? well, that's where the Big Dogs growl! I have used a buddy's 20TAC at 400+ on prairiedogs so you should have no problem connecting with a rabbit at 500 provided the Wind gods are kind. Good luck with the project. ~Andrew (We still have plenty of rifles left unpurchased here in the States if you ever decided to relocate... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigyboy Posted October 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2007 I was actually talking to the gun smith this morning he had just had my old .204 ruger barrel off and for a look he slid in his own .204 ruger reamer, he said it was shaking about quite a bit and it should be very tight. The 300 yard rabbit was much easier than I thought it would be, I shifted the goal posts slightly and changed it to a 300 yard crow but I only managaed one a 280 yards which was close but just not there. The 500 yard rabbit should be a lot more challenging, ill maybe change that to a 500 yard crow once I make the rabbit. I have actually considered moving to the states a few times purely for shooting but my woman reckons its crazy to up sticks and move a few thousand miles just to shoot , I think its perfectly resonable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted October 7, 2007 Report Share Posted October 7, 2007 I also weighed cases after turning and segregated them into batches but after using them I could not see any difference at all in a group using assorted case weights with matched bullet weights and lengths. I have about 85 PPC cases and now just use them as they come I do however use bullets matched by weight and length. A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 CB: My woman thought I was crazy to shoot at all. It came down to shooting or the woman... I'm still shooting! The US is a great place for shooters. On top of many manufactures and the availability of components, you also have many millions of acres of public hunting lands free for the using. It's antelope season here in Montana and I will be going out tomorrow. Love it.~Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 308Panther Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 CB: My woman thought I was crazy to shoot at all. It came down to shooting or the woman... I'm still shooting! It's antelope season here in Montana and I will be going out tomorrow. Love it.~Andrew Been there done that,too...Twice. First one was Motorcycles, Second one was Guns...Guess What? I still got both,the Guns and the Bikes And whats even better is I found a woman that likes to shoot,and likes to ride too. She wont pull the trigger on a living critter...But when it comes to punchin paper she wont put the .380 or My .17HMR down till she runs out of ammo. Sorry Guys...Her sisters are all married. Best of luck on the 'lopes... 308Panther Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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