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Humane Destruction


legion

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Got a call from a farming neigbour, can you bring your rifle to deal with a bullock with a broken leg, the vet cannot get near the beast as it is still mobile and is trying to kill him. OH NO, to add to the problem the beast is on a public footpath at the bottom of a ravine in the middle of the local wildlife reserve- a favorite dog walking destination.

Having had discussions with my FAO in the past i knew this could be tricky, no problem the 12 gauge with 3 inch mags would do the job and not creat possible firearms issues with the police.

Arriving on site having walked nearly a mile my heart sank, the vet wanted me to get to the front and put a bullet between its eyes, ignoring the vet loaded the 12 gauge semi, rushed the beast and before it could charge put one between its eyes at about two yards, thank god it dropped, thank god i didnt have a misfire. any way job done vet was well impressed and i didnt need the rifle.

Next job getting the beast out of the ravine, no place for a quad, me and my big mouth- just gut and butcher it there and drag the parts out. Great idea says the vet and farmer, well volenteered. that which promotes growth and vigour what have i just done, i have gutted most things and in theory its all the same, but armed with a kitchen knife and a meat cleaver alone is not the ideal situation. That beast weighed a ton, took two hours to butcher and bag and i will not be opening my big mouth again.....

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Hopefully you now have more beef in your freezer than you can eat in a month.

 

If not the farmer should be ashamed.

 

Mark

 

Passed a RTA roe doe on the way into work this morning at 5am Sadly still mobile although with a broken back, dragging herself on front feet only. Wish I'd had something on board to do the deed with. :(

 

Perhaps I'll start leaving a hammer in the bottom of the boot. I dont know if I feel like getting up close and personal with a sharp knife....

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Had a mate who was huntsman and we went at bullocks and horses with a knife to get going and then an axe. Mind you it was for the hounds and not for human consumption but it was still a big job. Well done like has already been said, I trust you got a reward xmas is coming?

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Hopefully you now have more beef in your freezer than you can eat in a month.

 

If not the farmer should be ashamed.

 

Mark

 

Passed a RTA roe doe on the way into work this morning at 5am Sadly still mobile although with a broken back, dragging herself on front feet only. Wish I'd had something on board to do the deed with. :(

 

Perhaps I'll start leaving a hammer in the bottom of the boot. I dont know if I feel like getting up close and personal with a sharp knife....

 

 

Sharp knife to the Atlas joint is the best way. Bashing a deer to death with a hammer would not look great to passing public. :o

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hi there chaps,

 

having been in a similar situation (where a farmer friend wanted a couple of bulls put down, in the presence of the vet), I phoned the local Firearms department to see where I stand if I turned up with a rifle to do the deed. Well, did they make it clear to me: unless you have 'humane dispatch' on the conditions for use of any of your firearms, you are breeching the conditions of your FAC, so, no, you cannot do it' I was told. Well, how about then you give me humane dispatch? only if you are a pest controller or a huntsman or a vet, was the response...

 

I don't know if this also stands for shotguns, I am sure someone in the forum may know. What was interesting was the 'off the record' comment, that this becomes a problem (i.e. not having humane dispatch in my ticket) should a member of the public reports it or it is noted by a police officer.

 

food for thought,

 

best wishes,

 

Finman

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Sharp knife to the Atlas joint is the best way. Bashing a deer to death with a hammer would not look great to passing public. :o

 

I wouldnt feel confident that I could dispatch a deer in this manner, especially if the deer was in any way mobile. A sharp blow to the back of the head with a hammer will do the job (I'm not talking sledge or pin hammers here!!)

 

In these sad days of PC PCs the carrying of a knife in ones car could be misconstrued as 'going equipped' or being in possession of a knife without good reason. A small toolkit in the boot would probably not be

 

As you say if Joe/Joanna public sees you having a 'heres Johnny' moment on the side of the A11 then perhaps all bets are off.....

 

Mark

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My last MFH was a knackerman, all his staff carried a folding shotgun in the cab, as well as a pistol on most days. Even a .410 at close range will stop anything ( ok if it is in a pen)

A 12 or 20 bore will stop anything if used accurately, and is far safer for all if the beast is still mobile. And there is also the benefit of a rapid follow up shot if needed.

It is easier to use than a pistol in a lot of instances.

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I have had this discussion with the Firearms officer, and its a grey area, but a friends animal is suffering and i was the only person available, plus we had a dangerous injured animal on a public footpath in the middle of a wildlife reserve- thats why i took the 12 gauge, shotguns are not tied to such rigerous rules.Fortunatly i had the chance to get in close quickly before the beast started panicking. Me and my big gob offered to help haul the beast out today on foot today, joy....

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I have had this discussion with the Firearms officer, and its a grey area, but a friends animal is suffering and i was the only person available, plus we had a dangerous injured animal on a public footpath in the middle of a wildlife reserve- thats why i took the 12 gauge, shotguns are not tied to such rigerous rules.Fortunatly i had the chance to get in close quickly before the beast started panicking. Me and my big gob offered to help haul the beast out today on foot today, joy....

 

mate, I am with you, I would have done the same, as a matter of fact, may even have done similar things....There is no questioning the rationale of what you did, it is the stupidity of the firearms law...I would feel even better had I been able to shoot a dangerous, injured animal from afar with a well placed centrefire bullet, but my local FLD is adamant that I am never going to do it. Well, no problem: lets wait for the firearms response unit then next time a bull or horse is loose and injured in a public highway. Oh, and lets not forget, they are waaaaay cheaper to deploy than me....

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I had this discussion with my FEO the other day as I have just applied for a 22 rimfire as a variation. One of the things I wanted was Humane dispatch as we keep a few sheep and recently I had to call in a friend to dispatch one of them. Short of it was as has already been said we normally only give that conditon to vets and profesionals, however there was more, as you have expanding ammunition on your ticket you can dispatch an injured distressed etc animal defacto, this is my FEO's position. If I ever have any problems having to carry out this deed on anything I will simply call him or direct the officer to call him. My mate who is a farmer uses his 22 for humane dispatch without it as a condition agian due ot expanding ammunition. This would be in the Thames Valley Area. Some serious brass ones to run up and do that to a bull fair play. Tyre iron would probably be better than a hammer and you probably always have one to hand. Still as has been said I can just imagine the publics response to seeing that.

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Well the saga continues, we have just finished hauling quarters up the glen by hand so he can get access in the morning with the quad and tractor. He is a good guy and farms nearly two thousand acres with his ageing father, plus he lets me shoot on ground next to my back garden.

I thought i was unfit lol two heavy farmers who smoke too much struggling- what a laugh.

There is method in my madness, although he has given me permission for land close by, i would like permission for vermin ie long range centerfire on the rest of his ground, his mum and dad have final say, therefore i have to make myself usefull, not being a tradesman means labouring- we always got permission by helping out farmers, its what us poor folk have to do lol....

Plus if the law allows he will drop the meat off for me to cook up in the burco for the dogs--RESULT..

 

When up in the Hebrides i used to look after the queens cousins horses, got a call one day, one of the big coloured horses was at the end of its life, could i pop up and do the descent thing and put it to sleep, there should be a suitable firearm in the gunroom. The owner of the gunroom spent many years in Africa, the gunroom was heaven, there sat in the gun rack next to one of its victims was a double holland and holland rifle - my weapon of choice says i, no such luck-no ammo, would the rigby 275 rimless magnum surfice. Probably as close to a safari as ill ever get.-such is life.....

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I have just read this thread and am really confused as to why FEO's are not allowing humane dispatch conditions on FAC's.

 

I have recently moved into the North Yorkshire force area and got my new certificates through, my FAC is currently .22LR only and I have this condition just given, not at request.

 

The holder of this certificate is permitted to possess, purchase or acquire expanding ammunition and the missiles for such ammunition and to use expanding ammunition in connection with the reasons as indicated below, within the confines of any other conditions imposed on the use of the weapon;-

 

The Shooting of vermin or, in the course of carrying on activities in connection with the management of any estate, other wildlife;

The humane killing of animals;

The ammunition may also be used for the purpose of zeroing in connection with the above purposes.

 

Surely the first of the 3 conditions there would allow humane destruction of any animal on any estate?

 

Regards

Alec

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Alec, I wonder if that is a north yorkshire thing. Your condition wording is very similar to a friend of mine who lives 5 mile down the road. He is in North yorks whereas I am in west yorks. He has it, I don't.

This would appear to be another instance where the forces have different ideas. When he saw I had 308 for vermin on my ticket he asked for it also only to be told a firm NO.

 

Go figure.... :wacko:

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Well eldon I guess that's what happens when they publish GUIDLINES and not RULES to work with, leaves everything open to the individuals and /or departments interpretation.

 

It's usefull to know about the .308 for vermin though, I'm going to be putting in for variation in the new year for a few centrefire calibres, always useful to know what you should be able to manage.

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Alec the paper I received along with the condition took half a page to explain something like, "the vermin control was a secondary reason only acceptable whilst the primary reason (deer) was in force" i.e. lose your deer shooting and you can't retain the 308 for shooting rabbits and foxes.

Mention that you don't want to leave the other (say deer) rifle in the car whilst out lamping afterwards with your fox rifle. Thats always a good phrasing.

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Consider this:-

 

The act of dispatching a deer on the roadside - you are in breech of the Firearms Act of dispatching a firearm within 15 metres of (the centre of a public highway

 

Moving said deer into the field - without deemed consent from the land owner places you in danger of being prosecuted for armed trespass

 

The deer is actually the propoerty of the Highways Agency I believe

 

Humanely dispatching said deer within sight of a member of the public renders you liable to a public citation for their distress.

 

Either way, it's a dilemma.

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The act of dispatching a deer on the roadside - you are in breech of the Firearms Act of dispatching a firearm within 15 metres of (the centre of a public highway

 

Massive bugbear of mine when people get this wrong.

 

 

 

Under section 161 of the Highways Act

1980, it is an offence for any person, without

lawful authority or excuse, to discharge any

firearm within fifty feet of the centre of any

highway which comprises a carriageway, if in

consequence, any user of the highway is

injured, interrupted or endangered. For these

purposes a carriageway means a highway

(other than a cycle track) over which the

public have a right of way for the passage of

vehicles. The Highways Act does not apply in

Scotland but Procurators Fiscal may use

common law offences of “culpable and

reckless conduct” and “reckless

endangerment” in situations in which the

1980 Act would be contravened in England

and Wales.

 

Edit: my bold

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I think this thread is becoming somewhat confused. Humane despatch is exactly that - humane. That is the reason for carrying out the act.

If you were travelling from home to shooting ground and saw a deer hit by a car, unless you were requested by police or land owner to carry out the act you would be on very sticky ground " I just happened to have my .308 in the car when I saw this deer hit by the car in front......" Armed trespass at the very least.

Most police in deer management areas seem to have a list of stalkers on call out to deal with such incidents.

AHPP is correct in what he quotes. End of.

There is no dilemma in doing what is right by the animal that is suffering.If you are competent enough.

The public has no say in the matter - they can walk away. In fact if the police are present, you tell them to keep them away and they do. I have attended a number of RTA deer incidents with a stalker friend of mine. No problem there - the police are there to assist.

Dead deer on the roadside are the property of whoever maintains the road. County Council Highways departments are usually very happy to not have to pick up a smelly week old carcass, it costs them a lot of money to dispose of.

 

What the original thread was about was the practical and safest way of humane despatch for a beast which was suffering. It was done correctly, in my humble opinion.

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Massive bugbear of mine when people get this wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

Edit: my bold

 

Yes AHPP, thank you for your version of in the wording of this. Suffolk Police use the word "distress" and "reasonable excuse". So respect the ambiguity here, particularly when non shooting members of the public may be at a RTA involving deer, as my latter point.

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Yes AHPP, thank you for your version of in the wording of this. Suffolk Police use the word "distress" and "reasonable excuse". So respect the ambiguity here, particularly when non shooting members of the public may be at a RTA involving deer, as my latter point.

 

I stress that my quote was not my "version" or interpretation. It's statute. Follow the link below to get it from the horse's mouth.

 

http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content.aspx?LegType=All+Legislation&searchEnacted=0&extentMatchOnly=0&confersPower=0&blanketAmendment=0&sortAlpha=0&PageNumber=0&NavFrom=0&parentActiveTextDocId=0&activetextdocid=2198405&versionNumber=1

 

 

In the context of injured deer on the roads one form of lawful authority or excuse would be that of the police giving a list of people permission to shoot where they otherwise might not (within the scope of the service).

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