VarmLR

Thanks Richie, that's the page.  Makes sense; so it is a tangent ogive after all...just a fussy one! (contradiction in terms).  Must admit, the 60gr smk was easier to load develop for. It's a bit pedantic on my part, as what I call "fussy" is the difference between a 0.2 and a 0.5 inch group.  Having checked my load data and shooting results, best was 0.18", worst was 1/2 moa (100yds 5 shot) between loads and jumps close to the OCW developed loads) so really not so bad. Used it for hunting too on rabbits/pigeon with results unsurprisingly like Vmax.  Have the 77gr which were better out to 600yds and a good LR vermin control bullet.  Pricey way to go about it though.

I still consider the Tikka TAC A1 as the best out of the box precision 6.5CM.

Many shooters have had exceptional results, myself included,  using this rifle and 139 Lapua Scenars at 1000yds and one in a 6.5 Remington chamber won a Bisley match a few years back with an astonishing 2.5 or 2.7" 600m group out of the box which for a factory rifle is almost as good as it gets.  My only niggle with it is the chambering can be hit or miss if you rush the bolt.  It needs to be deliberately brought full back to the stop and operated smoothly to avoid mis chambering or not chambering the rounds.

Hornady 140 ELDs or 140gr SST's also shoot superbly from this rifle.

The only bullets I've had mixed success with so far are the 123gr Scenars.  Some reloads shoot fine, others barely scrape moa.  Perhaps I just need to develop those loads more carefully but for me the 139 scenar or would be my go-to bullet of choice for this rifle.

General rule of thumb (if there is one) is that tangent ogive profiles tend to be more jump tolerant whilst secant ogive fare batter closer up.  TMKs in various calibres are a strange breed, some being classic VLD (secant) designs such as the .308 and others tending towards tangent profiles.  I've found the .223 tmks don't have many sweet spots but generally just varying the jump for a range of loads finds at least 1 if not 2 nodes.  They can be fussy, and whilst after a house move, I haven't unpacked my Litz reference on these, I think they tend to a vld profile, and as my barrel has worn, so I've had to alter seating depth for the same load (23.5gr RS50) to maintain precision.  Just a jump too little or too much by 10 though seems to affect them.  This does seem a little at odds for the long jump semi autos that they were developed for but a precision bolt action rifle is a different animal, "precision" being the objective. When I can find my Litz book, I'll check the Rt/R ratio for these as it may shed some further light.  However, I don't think it's your CZ barrel that is fussy.  The 69TMKs are notoriously fussy to find that consistent sweet spot for IME.

Spot on Ralph.

Just out of interest, have you tried other powders?   I found that between 23.2 and 23.6gr RS50 was a better match (tighter grouping in mine) with a similar jump to yours (slightly less actually to avoid over compressing the rounds)

Worth bearing in mind that Sierra availability is sketchy presently and not likely to get much better into the near future.  If Phoenix at Bisley has sufficient stocks of their bullets then that's well worth a shout.  More readily available than Sierra seems to be the Hornady or Lapua bullets.  The Hornady ELD Match in 155 or 178gr should be a good shout, the 178 definitely a decent BC contender for 100 yds.

On 10/30/2021 at 3:23 PM, Popsbengo said:

Not really fair to Ralph I feel.  I've been an RCO for a few years, never found it necessary to be rude or 'bark orders'.   I was an ODRC member for one year but found the organisation (after JM left) to be arrogant, ill informed and plain rude.  It's a hobby/sport for goodness sake, we do it for fun, hopefully, in a convivial environment.

The answer to crappy club management might be a take-over at the AGM and kick the "problem persons" off the committee however it's quite daunting for those never involved to take on the running of a shooting club.  My solution was to just leave and continue with better, friendly, well run clubs.

This ^^^^

ODRC used to be a fantastic organisation but poor old "J" was left to do most of the running about and to put it politely, his paperwork organisation skills might have been a tad lacking, but he was friendly, accommodating and hard working.

What followed was best described as a "bit of a coup" where J was removed or stepped down and the organisation of the club after that seemed at best, chaotic to me.

I was present when there was a run in with the MOD at Warminster as apparently, there was something lost in translation between the Landmark Estates contract with ODRC and what the MOD expected.  There were arguments over the use of vehicles to access the shooting point to drop off clobber and where they should be parked and on who was responsible for things like raking the sand backstop.  An amicable solution was eventually found and the club ticked over until J was ousted.

No names but one chap in particular ruffled a great many feathers with his rather abrupt style, and unnecessary rudeness, although there were mitigating circumstances known by some that knew of his past.

Since a few years back, it was the antics of some wayward members further North who frankly ought to have behaved with more responsibility that sealed their fate and OD lost it's accreditation with the MOD ranges through alleged safety breaches as a direct result.  I understand now though that they are working on regaining (or have since regained?) NRA certification and are shooting at Bisley.  It's unknown at this stage whether the MOD will have them back but personally, I won't be re-joining just yet because Bisley is just too far away for me to make trips to, and I want to watch from the side-lines and see if their management improves as previously, on the last few shoots I attended as a member, it was far from consistent in organisation.  To be fair, there were a few members who let the side down badly, and they ought to have been kicked out rather than impugn the good that the club had done for LR shooting, not least the superb campaigning work for HME shooters.  The attitude of those who were managing the club was the final straw for me, as I don't take rudeness well.

I have a 527 which I had barrelled in a 26" LW 1/8 twist.  Can't comment on the factory barrel because it was well and truly toasted when I bought it.  I've found that TMKs can be fussy and if anything, prefer a long jump which is unusual for a secant ogive bullet but after all, they were developed for semi-autos in the USA using a long jump.  I prefer the sierra matchkings or gamekings which are much easier to find a decent load with.  Currently, I'm using #1390 gamekings for muntjac and they are a very accurate load.  Back to the TMKs, batch consistency can vary so I batch mine by B to O measurements, and powder choice favours RS50 or N140. Barrel wise, you're probably close to the dge of stabilising them in a 1/9 twist as they prefer a 1/7 or 1/8 ideally.

I do use a Hornady B to O comparator and seating gauge but it does take some practice to get consistent results, either with the dummy case or with a split case.

Had no problems with rust on or inside my TacA1 in 4 years of use.  I know some have.  I agree with Chaz.  I have used mine for deer but it's close on 13lbs all up with an S&B PMII and mod and no field gun unless you're planning on setting up in one position for long range corvid action or similar.  Having to trudge up some steep hills carrying a deer and the rifle convinced my bad back once was enough so I take a lighter rifle out for field work now.

Must admit, I find the standard sierra matchkings easier to develop a load for than the TMKs, at least in .223.  

I have the same rifle.  Zero rust anywhere.  I just don't understand how others have issues....I have seen other chassis rifles (no names)  corrode and whose finish is appalling but the TAC A1, as with my other Tikka rifle, is as good as the day I bought it.  I run KG1 through and leave in 20 minutes before patching out, followed by Wipeout Tactical Advantage, then wipe the rifle with an oily rag after doing the chamber cleaning and bolt cleaning/lube.  It gets stored for weeks at a time and is still pristine.

Be VERY careful with smaller cases like 223 that if changing brass you start from scratch and work up new load data.  There is quite a variation in BOTH brass alloy malleability and internal case volume in 223, at least from my own studies.  I recently had to drop one load a full grain due to differences in internal H2O volume due to different brass thickness between my outgoing brass and new brass of a different make.

I've tried all sorts from Hornady, PPU, SAKO, Lapua, and several others but by far the best in terms of consistency and max nr reloads was Lapua.  WELL worth the extra.

Try N133 and work up to 23.2gr.  YOU NEED to use magnum primers NOT 20 thou cup thickness standard primers with 223.

N133 works, IMHO, better than N140 with this bullet.  I get 3100fps from 23.2gr.   My initial load was 23.6 for incredible low ES/SD but it started blowing magnum primers and a check on BBT's internal Ballistics simulator showed this to be over-pressure (60KPSI) despite various load manuals showing it to be within safe loads, so be careful.  

As a separate note, hats off to "borbal" of this parish as his revised BBT seems now to be bang on with most of my loads (usually within 100fps or far better and my load ladders would correlate with BBT's upper recommended pressures) so I use it with confidence rather than keep having to bother RS for their QL data!

On 8/3/2020 at 10:02 PM, Woodlander said:

I’ve had a few disappointing transactions recently, “once fired brass”, that was only fit for the bin and a pm11 that had a split eyepiece and dented elevation turret, it had obviously been dropped, I had to send it back to Schmidt and get it fixed at my own expense, so it was fit to sell on, as he had assured me on 4 occasions that it was CCW elevation and it was CW, all my other scopes are CCW.  After complaining, he blocked my messages. You have more recourse on eBay.  
I will contact the seller of the powder again and see what he is prepared to do.  
We should be helping each other out, not doing each other over. 

Same here.  Bought 200 once fired SAKO brass (another forum), and once fired my backside!  Loose primer pockets on 3rd firing.

Most though on here are honest people so it's disappointing to hear some have had issues.

RE the powder...good result.

Outstanding groups at 600 with that bullet.

I use the 69TMK with 24.6gr N140/25gr RS50 and cannot get anywhere near that.  77Gr TMKs shoot into very similar group sizes for me though.   I haven't yet tried the 69SMK but most I speak to much prefer it over the TMK as I've yet to meet anyone who likes that bullet!

Pillar bedded mine and devcon bedded the front.  Lovely little action and one of my favourite rifles.  Shoots 55gr (1/8 L-W barrel) to match accuracy and has become my main munty rifle with most shots  at 200yds plus.  Great fun on wabbits or cwows (Elmer accent) at 500yds!

Forget accuracy out past 600 using 60gr....just not enough bullet nor oomph. You'll get the odd hit but it'll be blown all over the place.  69gr at 700yds was marginal when I tried them and that, for accuracy, was the extreme extent of it's range if by accurate you mean 2moa!   77gr TMKs much better if driven hard at 2800fps and they were a good 850yd bullet.  60gr should be fine to 500yds but velocity is starting to drop off very rapidly from them by then.  N133 works well with 60gr at 22.6 to 23.2gr in my rifle.  RS50 is very good for the 77's but your 1/9 might struggle to stabilise anything much over 69.

I'm reading a lot about using the Hornady ELD-X/M choices and surprisingly few comments for thr less expensive 140SST.  I wonder why...is iot perception or just that people have naturally progressed to the more expensive slightly higher BC option?  Personally, the accuracy I've achieved using the SST matches that of the 139 Scenar match bullets I've also used and providing you're not shooting within 100yds, they are not too explosive in expansion.

I hear what some are saying about the .308 and larger cals V's 6.5 but looking on historical use, the Swede has been in use for a century on Elk, and in softer Swede Military 46Kpsi loadings than current 6.5 loads.  I don't really understand the arguments about bullet placing being less critical with larger cals because I don't really believe that's true based on personal experience, unless shooting close in at similar velocities.  Providing wound channels and penetration are adequate, both should work well.  Accuracy for a HILAR is really not much more onerous than for boiler room, so I get back to that point being quite relevant.  Bullet calibre becomes less critical if confidence is there to achieve HILAR shots.  Saying that, shooting European Boar is not like UK deer species...for a start they don't stand nice and still for accurate bullet placement, so when you have a 300+lb very agitated animal bearing down on you at speed, the bigger the cal the better imho!

On 6/25/2020 at 10:47 AM, John MH said:

Lost our Lola today 😞

Sorry to hear that John....they get under the skin, dont they?  Hard when you lose one.  I've gone through that half a dozen times now but never regret the next one.  Each one is a joy...a different character but at least you have happy memories of the one lost.

I've a Sinclair F Class bipod which I find very good.  Since I no longer shoot comp (have taken a break thanks to a trapped nerve), it will probably be in the classifieds as I've gone back to an Atlas type bipod for field work.

It was a fair assumption since you said that all your rifles were "...for purely sporting usage...".  If it's a truck rifle or from a hide then it doesn't matter what you use I guess.

I did try it but it left too thick a film.  I ended up using it for the underneath of my car for the sub chassis and for the motorbike!  

Never had an issue with mine and it's been out in rain, hail and snow!

I always ensure after every outing that it's cleaned down and lightly oiled and have had zero issues with rust anywhere in the few years I've owned it.  I use Wipeout patch out tactical for barrel cleaning and the bore's absolutely pristine. Whilst that does have a barrel conditioner (rust inhibitor) if storing mine for more than a few weelks I will put an oily patch down the barrel and ensure it's cleaned out and the chamber especially cleaned (de-greased using meths) and dried  before use.

On 6/20/2020 at 3:07 PM, AnthonyR said:

I have just ordered a Super Varmint which will be here next week and I also potentially have 2 floor plates on the way, one CTR and one AICS, going to see which one I prefer and flog the other.

So thanks for the offer but unless my CTR vendor drops out I should be sorted

Thanks for all the help so far, I will report back with how I get on

I thought you wanted to avoid excess weight?  I have a T3 varmint in 24 inch barrel and I can tell you it's far from a light tube!  I do use mine for stalking but even with a nice light GRS stock, you know you've done some exercise lugging that rifle back to the car whilst also carrying a deer!

On 6/18/2020 at 7:54 AM, AnthonyR said:

Great, thanks for the replies.

The Bifrost stock I have is for a CTR and standard T3 bottom metal won't fit apparently.

I can't find the CTR bottom metal for sale anywhere, there are some options available using AICS mags but that is not really what I am after, I didn't know about the potential trigger issue either.

I have also been reading that quite a few TAC A1 with chrome moly barrels have been having corrosion issues, I spoke to my smith yesterday and he is having one in to rebarrel, it's in 6.5 and has only done 600 odd rounds and is totally buggered.

So as far as i can see there are only 2 real options left, can a standard T3 Stainless Varmint, which are easily available, be modified to use CTR mags and stock assuming you can get the CTR bottom metal that is or I have to wait for the proper CTR. I have quite a lot of work coming up for this rifle in the Autumn and was hoping to have it up and running before then.

  Edited response...just seen the other thread and some people clearly have been sold sub standard rifles which is very rare for anything with a Tikka badge.