Brillo Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 I'm toying with getting a spotting scope to help my wind (mirage) reading. I don't want to spend too much but realise cheap ain't good. Suggestions please . Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 I have bought a couple at the £300 level and been severely disappointed. I have a Swarovski ATS 80....cost circa £1600 but it works. Beware recommendations.......see for yourself its the only way but spend high or you may as well throw the cash away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gun Pimp Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 I'll say it again - Brian Fox sells the excellent Nikula spotting scope in a copy Peli case for about £295. I've compared it side by side with my Kowa and honestly this Chinese scope is just as good. However, if you want to improve your wind reading then a scope with a very wide field of view - covering say four targets either side will be best. Several of the good F Class shooters use this method. Mirage? We don't have mirage at Diggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incisor Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 There’s a review of a small selection on the Finn accuracy site thats worth a quick read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradders Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 I'm toying with getting a spotting scope to help my wind (mirage) reading. I don't want to spend too much but realise cheap ain't good. Suggestions please . Thanks Don't buy one with a zoom facility, it'll be compromised Buy a good one with angled eye piece, long eye relief and wideish angle Something in the 20-32x mag range I have a Kowa TSN-821 with the above and think it's about ideal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryh Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 I agree with Bradders re the Kowa with an angled eye piece, they did do a 24x long eye relief that was perfect. You could see your target and a good deal of the targets on either side of yours. Disagree with the zoom - (caveat depends on the spotter in question) Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradders Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 Disagree with the zoom - (caveat depends on the spotter in question) Terry You've earned the right to be wrong!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryh Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 Mark, We can agree to disagree! T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiff Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 If it's any help, I have a fully kitted out Vortex Razor 20-60x85 HD with 30x MOA eyepiece, tripod, pocket & DSLR camera mount and neoprene cover that I will be selling shortly. It's a brilliant scope for glass quality and not that far behind the Swaro; which for my eyes is the best on the market sub £5k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strangely Brown Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 Zoom eyepieces? Generally a 20~60x zoom eyepiece will start to go woolly at around 40x magnification....unless it's a top end one by Swarovski, Leica or Zeiss. Reading through this thread Bradders is on the money with his advice on scope power, I favour 30x at 1000 yards and settle for 20x up to 600 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryh Posted October 22, 2017 Report Share Posted October 22, 2017 Morning Mick Question for you, considering your history, did you ever have the chance to compare good glass vs ‘fluorite’ in the same spotter or similar? T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted October 22, 2017 Report Share Posted October 22, 2017 I'll say it again - Brian Fox sells the excellent Nikula spotting scope in a copy Peli case for about £295. I've compared it side by side with my Kowa and honestly this Chinese scope is just as good. However, if you want to improve your wind reading then a scope with a very wide field of view - covering say four targets either side will be best. Several of the good F Class shooters use this method. Mirage? We don't have mirage at Diggle. Vince without doubting your own experience of the Nikula scope in question I have to be brutally honest and say that the one I bought struggled at even 200 yards.......the case is better value. I can only think that quality is very variable from this manufacturer and that I have the lower end of that scale as I do not doubt your opinions. My comment above stated that a purchaser MUST actually look through ANY scope (even high-end) for themselves to be sure it lives up to their own expectations and not someone elses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradders Posted October 22, 2017 Report Share Posted October 22, 2017 The higher the magnification you go, the further into the world of diminishing returns you get, and if you want to run a scope of 40-60x, you really do need a considerably larger objective lens than 80mm or so. Given that the human eye pupil can only dilate to a max of 7mm, it's always been accepted that scopes or optics of any type that let light exit at or near this max dia will always be the best, hence why scopes in the 6x42 and 8x56 range have always been preferred by low-light hunters. 42÷6=7 and 56÷8=7 etc Now I realise that most scopes go beyond this, but we can all agree that the best optical performance of our favourite glass is when the mag is turned down, am I right? With this, my 32x eyepiece on a 80mm spotting scope is 2.81mm dia, I know it's not the brightest, but the quality of the glass makes up for that A 20x will have an exit dia of 4mm, and that is very good If you move into the zoomers, at 40x the exit dia will be 2mm and at 60x, you'll only have a dia of 1.33mm.........so think about trying to look through a 1.33mm hole at a target xxx yards away. Combine this with some not very high quality "Made in Taiwanaland" glass with crappy light transmitting characteristics and you will see where I was going with this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryh Posted October 22, 2017 Report Share Posted October 22, 2017 Mark Concur entirely in your missive (gosh did I really say that ? ) I have a high mag zoom spotter, 60x max, agree you might turn it down a little in certain conditions but the ability to turn it up or down as opposed to fix is an advantage - as per zoom scopes. Also being FFP with a ret is nice. Quality of build / glass is everything, you cannot polish a turd! A lot of optics look good until you put them side by side. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DW58 Posted October 22, 2017 Report Share Posted October 22, 2017 This might help ... ... ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradders Posted October 22, 2017 Report Share Posted October 22, 2017 This might help ... ... ... It’s not big enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brillo Posted October 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2017 Gentlemen, Thank you all for your experiencial and knowledgeable advice. It is now clear to me ( no pun intended) that I need to up my price point if I want something that's going to work. It's also now obvious that I need to start comparing what others are using. Unfortunately, it's unlikely that I'll be able to compare one of the Nikula scopes that Vince mentioned as I'm not planning a trip north of the midlands equator in the near future. Many thanks for the technical advice Bradders. It's of immense help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strangely Brown Posted October 22, 2017 Report Share Posted October 22, 2017 Morning Mick Question for you, considering your history, did you ever have the chance to compare good glass vs ‘fluorite’ in the same spotter or similar? T Indeed Terry, I think it was Canon who first marketed the fact that they had used fluorite in their lenses; we once had a comment in the shop from a customer that Canon were now using toothpaste in the manufacture of their lenses! Looking back I think it was on a range of Kowa scopes that we sold in the mid 1980's that first had fluorite and non fluorite glass in identical bodies. The non Fluorite version was a good scope and the then new Fluorite version surpassed it considerably. If you were showing a customer both lenses on a drab dull day then the fluorite scope stood out like a turd in a babies cot. Sharp to the edge of the field and the colour transmission was superb, something that a lot of companies were struggling with in those days. This was always a problem with the very intense red coatings or blue coating that were very fashionable back in the day; they would either give warm or cold images transmission. Customers have been known to buy binoculars based on the colour of the objective optic! On a bright day with full sun the advantage of the fluorite scope was more difficult to notice for the average punter, especially as has been mentioned here before, dependent on the eyepiece magnification. I have lied in the past to a customer about the power of magnification they were looking through and switched to what they originally asked for at the end of the demo to try and get over that less sometimes means more on occasions. I will just say that not everything with a name on purports to be what you may think it is. In 2000 I went on a trip to a well respected optical company based in Austria, we had just had a bash on their indoor rifle range (.222 Rugers with set triggers) when I was told there would be a half hour wait for the coach to take us back to the hotel. I decided to go for a wander unchaperoned around the complex, imagine my surprise when I noticed some familiar looking boxes waiting to be collected for rubbish, all of them were sporting the Hoya Optics name! Naturally enough I did ask the question and was told they also make stuff for other people, but don't put their European name on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSOK Posted October 22, 2017 Report Share Posted October 22, 2017 If you can buy a unit with a fixed 30x eyepiece then you'll pick up mirage and get a far better FOV than any of the zoom options . OSOK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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