6-204/6x47rem/25-45 Sharps - 0.223 rebarrel - experiences please

[Boydy47]

Hi all

 

Looking at getting my CZ527 rebarrelled soon and fancy one of the above cartridges, just wonder what peoples experiences are, ideally I'd like a rifle capable of over 1700 ft-lb for the roe on my ground as this will make the rebarrel worth it instead of chopping in the CZ against a new 0.223. I have a Hornet that shoots 40 gr varmageddon tipped very well out to 200 yards so the 0.223 is just too close and 6.5 x 55, 6.5 CM for out and out deer stalking rifles so I fancy something a bit more in between than say 6PPC or 0.243.

 

Pros for the 6-204 / 6x47 rem are - larger case capacity, massive choice of bullets from 55s up with 95 gr TMK being a great option for target, 6 mm barrels possibly easier to get hold of.

Cons- can't use the huge stock of 0.223 brass I have, COAL likely to be too long for the CZ 0.223 mag, custom or necking dies required for the 6-204 but not the 6x47 I Guess

 

Pros for the 25-45 Sharps - Should work with my 0.223 mag length, will allow me to use the huge stock of 0.223 brass I have, no fireforming, factory dies available.

Cons- bullet choice restricted, 70 SBKs being the lightest.

 

The rifle would be used for long range vermin and for muntjac stalking with the ability to take roe comfortably, plus informal target out to 600 yards, probably a medium weight 24" barrel in the existing stock for now to keep the costs down.

 

Thoughts and experiences please.

[Andrew]

I have had experience with a 6-223 in a handgun for metallic silhouette competition and it worked very well. From a 12 inch barrel it was sub MOA and flattened the 200M, 67 pound steel targets with 90 grain bullets. I don't recall what speeds I was getting. I always toyed with the idea of taking a deer with it but never did, opting for a revolver instead. I eventually traded it for a 30-223 to be used in the same venue.

 

I am a CZ 527 fan and have six of them. I am seriously considering adding the 6.5 Grendel for pretty much the same applications you are thinking of. Not very exotic and it's available straight from the factory, but it will probably shoot very well. I recently saw one sitting in a shop a couple of hundred miles from here and I keep fending off the urge to drive over and pick it up. These days the lure of an efficient 'multi' gun is very strong. Good luck with your choice.~Andrew

[Boydy47]

Hi Muir

I like the 527s, have 2 along with a 6.5x55 550.

The Grendel really appeals to me but they aren't bringing the 527s in over here, leaves the Howa mini and having handled one of these it just didn't float my boat. I already have 2x 6.5s and the fact that you can't go lighter than 85 gr and not many stock those puts me off.

I've been offered the use of a 25-45 reamer so leaning that way, not many seem to have experience though which is understandable as it's a bit of a niche wildcat, but just appeals to me!!

[baldie]

Just about to barrel a 6 x 45 or 6/223.

[BlueBoy69]

Checking online data, the 6x47 (doesn't says if its a 6mm-RemMag or 6mm-204) and 6x45 (6mm-223) are on Hodgdon's reloading data centre for example, and also playing with the QuickLOAD, there doesn't seem to be anyway you can get 1,700 ft.lbs out of any of these cartridges at normal COALs and/or pressures and normal length (20-24") tubes .

 

There were a few loads that could theoretically able to break the 1,700 ft.lbs barrier in the 25-45 Sharps, 6mm-RemMag and 6mm-204 (6 mm ATZL in QuickLOAD), but these all in 26" tubes, loaded long, far longer than the respective 2.260", 2.485" and 2.480" COALs listed in the program, then stuffed full of high energy propellant and operating at near or slightly above the maximum permissible pressure.

 

Going by the COAL for feeding from the standard 223 magazine, the 25-45 should be fine as its set the aforementioned 2.260", over the 2.220" for the 223, but the 6mm-RemMag and 6mm-204 could be a problem, with their aforementioned COALs of 2.485" and 2.480". Loading out the get the max amount of powder resulted in far longer COALs,

 

Nice idea though and other than the data from Hodgdon, the rest above is purely theoretical, with real world experience probably negating most of the blurb above. I'm sure someone like Dave (Baldie above) will be able to give you far sounder and more experienced advice though.

[Boydy47]

Just about to barrel a 6 x 45 or 6/223.

This is what I looked at originally but it can't quite get over the line.

[Boydy47]

Just about to barrel a 6 x 45 or 6/223.

This is what I looked at originally but it can't quite get over the line.

 

Checking online data, the 6x47 (doesn't says if its a 6mm-RemMag or 6mm-204) and 6x45 (6mm-223) are on Hodgdon's reloading data centre for example, and also playing with the QuickLOAD, there doesn't seem to be anyway you can get 1,700 ft.lbs out of any of these cartridges at normal COALs and/or pressures and normal length (20-24") tubes .

 

There were a few loads that could theoretically able to break the 1,700 ft.lbs barrier in the 25-45 Sharps, 6mm-RemMag and 6mm-204 (6 mm ATZL in QuickLOAD), but these all in 26" tubes, loaded long, far longer than the respective 2.260", 2.485" and 2.480" COALs listed in the program, then stuffed full of high energy propellant and operating at near or slightly above the maximum permissible pressure.

 

Going by the COAL for feeding from the standard 223 magazine, the 25-45 should be fine as its set the aforementioned 2.260", over the 2.220" for the 223, but the 6mm-RemMag and 6mm-204 could be a problem, with their aforementioned COALs of 2.485" and 2.480". Loading out the get the max amount of powder resulted in far longer COALs,

 

Nice idea though and other than the data from Hodgdon, the rest above is purely theoretical, with real world experience probably negating most of the blurb above. I'm sure someone like Dave (Baldie above) will be able to give you far sounder and more experienced advice though.

 

Interesting that the .222 rem based wildcats struggle to get over the mark with the extra case volume, consensus on an another forum I posted on was that this would be the easiest due to the extra case capacity but the COAL may well not be taken into account.

 

Its all leading to the 25-45, Sharps have done the hard work and the chap that has offered me the use of the reamer has 2 loads each with a different bullet and powder combination that get over 1700 ft-lb with 87/90 gr soft points out of a 24" tube.

[BlueBoy69]

Boydy47,

 

Taking Hodgdon's data on 6 x 47 mm round, it doesn't state whether its based on the base 222 Remington Magnum or 204 Ruger, only gives just over 1,500 ft.lbs tops with a 85 grain bullet in a 24" tube, so ultimately it seems their data will not let you reach the magic 1,700 ft.lbs limit. You might be able to boost this a little by building up your own load, but it seems your chasing something which the cartridge isn't really suited for.

 

The 25-45 Sharps does list commercial ammo firing an 87 grain soft point that exceeds the 1,700 ft.lbs barrier from a 20" tube (link). Their rather spartan reload data (link) lists a load using 25 grains of Accurate A2200 with a Speer 87 grain Hor-Cor soft point that also exceeding the 1,700 ft.lbs limit from a 24" tube. Both are pretty marginally over the limit, at 1,739 ft.lbs, though I'm sure the deer wouldn't notice.

 

Ultimately even though the 25-45 Sharps is supposed to break the energy limit, it's pretty close and you probably don't want to fall foul of the law. Maybe if you end up getting a 26" tube and develop more refined homeloads which will push you nearer a more satisfactory and less legally grey level of 1,800 ft.lbs.

[Boydy47]

I think yo

 

Boydy47,

 

Taking Hodgdon's data on 6 x 47 mm round, it doesn't state whether its based on the base 222 Remington Magnum or 204 Ruger, only gives just over 1,500 ft.lbs tops with a 85 grain bullet in a 24" tube, so ultimately it seems their data will not let you reach the magic 1,700 ft.lbs limit. You might be able to boost this a little by building up your own load, but it seems your chasing something which the cartridge isn't really suited for.

 

The 25-45 Sharps does list commercial ammo firing an 87 grain soft point that exceeds the 1,700 ft.lbs barrier from a 20" tube (link). Their rather spartan reload data (link) lists a load using 25 grains of Accurate A2200 with a Speer 87 grain Hor-Cor soft point that also exceeding the 1,700 ft.lbs limit from a 24" tube. Both are pretty marginally over the limit, at 1,739 ft.lbs, though I'm sure the deer wouldn't notice.

 

Ultimately even though the 25-45 Sharps is supposed to break the energy limit, it's pretty close and you probably don't want to fall foul of the law. Maybe if you end up getting a 26" tube and develop more refined homeloads which will push you nearer a more satisfactory and less legally grey level of 1,800 ft.lbs.[/quoyou're

Boydy47,

 

Taking Hodgdon's data on 6 x 47 mm round, it doesn't state whether its based on the base 222 Remington Magnum or 204 Ruger, only gives just over 1,500 ft.lbs tops with a 85 grain bullet in a 24" tube, so ultimately it seems their data will not let you reach the magic 1,700 ft.lbs limit. You might be able to boost this a little by building up your own load, but it seems your chasing something which the cartridge isn't really suited for.

 

The 25-45 Sharps does list commercial ammo firing an 87 grain soft point that exceeds the 1,700 ft.lbs barrier from a 20" tube (link). Their rather spartan reload data (link) lists a load using 25 grains of Accurate A2200 with a Speer 87 grain Hor-Cor soft point that also exceeding the 1,700 ft.lbs limit from a 24" tube. Both are pretty marginally over the limit, at 1,739 ft.lbs, though I'm sure the deer wouldn't notice.

 

Ultimately even though the 25-45 Sharps is supposed to break the energy limit, it's pretty close and you probably don't want to fall foul of the law. Maybe if you end up getting a 26" tube and develop more refined homeloads which will push you nearer a more satisfactory and less legally grey level of 1,800 ft.lbs.

 

You may well be right, though the shooter whose offered the reamer is nudging the 1800 ft-lb with the Sierra 90s, AA2200 seems unheard of over hear, 2230 being the closest, for which I can get the lovex equivalent fairly easily, Exterminator seems another stock choice which is hard to ge but I have 4 tubs for the .223 and his load is with RL7 which I can get hold of. Gives me a few options though.

 

Definitely hear what you're saying in the barrel, would be a pain to go to the effort and get to 1650! I would want a load at a reliable 1750-1800 to be comfortable for larger deer, maybe 26" is the way to go would get more velocity from the varmint loads then too