njc110381 Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 Hey guys. Of late I have become a bit of a Sako 75 collector. Always the stainless ones. They fit me like a glove and have a nice feeling about them so when I see one come up for sale I get a bit silly and, well, buy them! I got my 6.5x55 first, a stainless synthetic, and used it for all sorts. Loved it and decided it's the best rifle ever! Then some git decided to advertise a nice looking .22-250 of the same form so I bought that too. Turns out it's a great calibre for foxing, so a good move there. Anyway, a week or so ago I was nosing about various dealer websites and would you Adam and Eve it there was another one! An action 1 laminate stainless this time in .223, 1/8 twist barrel. Little use, blah... Yeah you guessed it - I bought it! So, I'm pretty sure I really don't want or need a 1/8 twist .223. If I can't shoot something with my .22-250 with 50gr bullets then I'll use my 6.5 with bigger ones. But it's an action 1 stainless and I didn't have one, so it has to get useful because I needed one! I'm now leaning towards .17 Rem, .204 Ruger or something around about that area. I have a CZ 527 in .17 Hornet and another in .17 Rem, but without wanting to sound snobby it's a CZ. Nothing wrong with that and they shoot great, but it's not stainless or a Sako 75, and I'm a little obsessed!I'm pretty sure I want to get this one rebarrelled in .17 Rem with a nice fluted sporter weight barrel and bin off my two CZ's, or do I? I thought it would be sensible to run it past you all in case there's something I've not considered? The round needs to be light, fast and as close to zero ricochet as possible. I'm open to wildcats as long as they don't involve loads of case prep. As well as that, without going silly with the budget, which barrel should I go for and who should fit it? I'd appreciate your comments... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 Easy scratch is to sell the CZ in 17,and rebarrel the Sako 75 in 17. The Sako used to come in 17 in an earlier model-and 222 (an absolute classic combo back in the day). The 75 in 223 is a bit heavier,but that is offset by your preference for the 75 (as a Varmint model,it's a solid 223,and 6PPC-this latter just lovely,but rare and of course,long out of production-but a rebarrel/bolt thought perhaps? I like mine.) But then I liked the 17 (only a Rem-17 Sako had become collected,and I was a PG student,with an annual income just about the same as a used Sako 17 carbine.....and the brain took short term priority). Your condition is not unknown...and there are solutions.....anaesthetics/therapies...more sakos1 gbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 .20 Practical will be nice in that action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-NZ Posted July 18, 2017 Report Share Posted July 18, 2017 I don't know why the .20 Prac isn't more popular. Simple conversion from .223 brass and basically the same as a .204. Makes sense if you've already got a .22-250. Far less bang and bite, impacts easy to see and spectacular on small stuff up to a solid 250yds, more if it's not blowing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted July 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 Thanks chaps. I've been reading a bit more. Does anyone have any thoughts on the .20 Vartarg? The Practical does look like a good idea. Easy to form from cheap brass so I'll worry less about losing it! I do still wonder if a .17 of some sort would be better though? I want to stay really light and as the calibre increases, obviously the lighter bullets become less efficient. 25gr from a .17 is pretty good, 26gr from a .204 isn't so much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyR Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 I have a Sako 75 stainless synthetic that I bought as a 223 and had converted into a 20 Tac by Neil Mckillop, great rifle and that I use for foxing with an NV scope, low recoil means I get to see what I have shot at. I chose 20 Tac because of the availability of Lapua brass at the time and I bought enough to last out the barrel easily but in truth there is not much between most of the common 20 Cals. 20 Tac brass is very easy to form from 223 if you did need to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 Cartridge,bullet mv and drop/drift inches at 100/200/300/400 10mph wind,SAAMI data: 17Rem 20g@4250 100y .6/1.1; 200y o/4.7; 300y 4.4/11.4 ;400y 14.4/22. 2081/192 remaining vel and energy ftlb 17 Rem.25g@4040. 100y .8/1.2; 200y 0/4.6;300y 5/11.7; 400y 15.9/22.6. 1993/221 204 H 32 g 4225. 100y .6/1.0;200y 0/4.1;300y 4.1/9.8. 400y. 13.1/18.7. 2132/357 204 Fed 32 4030. 100y .7/1.0;200y 0/4.4;300y 4.7/10.6;400y 14.9/20.2. 2120/220 223Rem 32@3900. 100y 1/1; 200y 0/4.5; 300y 8/10.8. 400y 17.3/20.8. 201/360 All saami-representative commercial loads. H 204 loading is prob high-and reloaders don't usually relpicate (without Superformance powder eg) As AnthonyR says,in ballistic terms there is not much in it for the 20 contenders (based on the 222mag/223 case),but not much between them and the 17Rem,and 223 32g loadings.... ....for all these 300y looks a realistic limit-the velocity haemorhage/low BCs really makes their use at 400y very iffy with a wind judgement error...though the 204 (vel) and 223 (bullet BC) give an energy edge-if relevant. Vartag-221 based(short 222) can't quite equal. There are plenty other contenders like 20 Tac,20 PPC,20 BR with somewhat varied pros/cons....and similar limitations-low BC,as vel drops.....esp in wind. NIce,but niche...like many wildcats/speciality cartridges. gbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted July 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 Cheers gbal... That makes deciding even harder because they're all the same pretty much! I think, but I'm not sure, that as I have a lot of .17 based stuff here already I may go with that. I have dies, brass, bullets and suitable powder. What I am really tempted to do is leave the Sako as it is for a while and get more hands on experience wit the .17 Rem. As it stands I don't have many rounds down it, no experience of fox and a few pieces of rabbit that were scattered about when I'd finished a little pest control session after initial zeroing. .20 cal barrel life is supposed to be quite well up on what you'd expect from a .17 Rem I believe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miki Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 Easy scratch is to sell the CZ in 17,and rebarrel the Sako 75 in 17. gbal +1 Great calibre, flat and fast (like the 22-250) a perfect bunny basher out to 200yds, you'll need a good strippable moderator (17HMR ammo is quite dirty especially the Hornady) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted July 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 Not a HMR miki, I'm looking at the .17 Remington. It's a bit bigger. In order... .223, .17 Rem, HMR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunner Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 Id keep 22-250 for fox and have 17 rem for smaller varmints . I guess your a sako fan , they are very nice rifles . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 Njc,taking some time makes sense-the 17rem replaced the 222rem as my go to rabbit rifle out to 250y-it lacked maybe .1/.2 in moa,but I can't recall it ever 'failing'-dropped on the spot heart shots.Carcass damage slight-usually no exit...very occasionally quite a lot,but never a failure-hydrostatic shock was instant.As you say,interchangeable-but good diesetc can son rattle up costs... Neither had much recoil-but 17Rem was a see it all (at usually 24x) 25 g Hornady HP or Berger 18-30g,quite a sharp crack,no mod in those days,but didn't cause much alarm from distance though. 222 better option on fox with 50/52g HP bullets-better yet,gunner's choice. Would go vey well with a light short Sako action (as Sako decided too) but what would not be neat in the SAko action! :-) gbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 I had a 75 in 222. Had it rebarelled to varmint weight 17 Rem(1-9") and added McMillan stock. Super happy with my dedicated fox" fur" rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miki Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 Not a HMR miki, I'm looking at the .17 Remington. It's a bit bigger. In order... .223, .17 Rem, HMR Ah, yes sorry missed that ..... !doh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted July 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 I am really tempted to stay with the .17. Some more experience with it will probably either confirm or change that thought. I had a cheap rifle built with a take off Remington barrel and a CZ527 action to see how it goes. Then I saw this Sako and figured it will either replace the CZ or become something else. There's no point going too big because it will then make the .22-250 redundant. My plan is to end up with a safe full of Sako 75's. I have the 6.5x55 in action 4, the .22-250 in action 3 and soon a small calibre on the action 1. I have no interest in the SM cartridge sizes so my last one will be the action 5 at some point. Hopefully in .375H&H if the firearms will allow it, otherwise I'll chop in my Ruger .338 Win Mag and have one of those. Then I just need a Finnfire and I'll be sorted! I wonder why they never made an action 2? Or did I miss something?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyR Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 The sweet spot for 20 cals based on the 223 or 222 case is using 39-40gr bullets not lighter ones IMO, you loose a bit of velocity but the BC's are much higher so less drop/drift. Wasn't the Action 2 for the 6mm PPC?? Personally I have always fancied a 20BR firing a bullet of about 55gr, but this would be Action 3 I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted July 20, 2017 Report Share Posted July 20, 2017 Anthony R, My Sako Varmint laminated Stainless in 6PPCUSA was marked a 111 on the acton (as per catalogue,along with the 22/250 and 243/708/308 family). The 11 size -if there ever was such-isn't listed for any cartridge in the 2002 catalogue .The 17rem,222rem,223rem are all listed as action1. gbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17 Rem Posted July 21, 2017 Report Share Posted July 21, 2017 The Action II was catalogued for the PPC cartridges when the 75 was first introduced, but, as far as I am aware, never put into production, with the PPCs being supplied in the Action III only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted July 21, 2017 Report Share Posted July 21, 2017 Thanks,17Rem-for afficionados,it's a great way to spend a wet afternoon-or several-trying to unravel Sako nomenclature.I think the European 6PPCs were Action111 on the 1997 M75 introduction. Wikipedia(not infallible) has an accessible account of Sako history (Europe) but not export,and some informal US sources (shooting forums) talk about Action 11 (for 243etc) -maybe carelessly/who knows? You might also read of a version of the A1/short /Vixen /L461action with only bolt face changes being used for the early PPCs....or the 1993 S491 being available in 17/222/223 and PPCUSA. Etc etc Bottom line is that they were (all) very fine rifles,whatever their action in roman numerals /or arabic numeral/descriptor-like Vixen,/style-like varmint/ European/Export ...whether these were entirely consistent or not,the actual rifles were-some of the earlier having minor cult status- an early 461 222 carbine...I was raised on this ideal via Field And Stream,back in the day-forget which now-legendary,not mythical. I doubt that collectors mind at all. gbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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