FFP scope & turrets help please ?

[ghillie.art.design]

Hi people,

 

I'm about to buy my first FFP scope, pretty exited but also virgin in this new piece of technology. The scope ( Ior valdada ) says its a Mil/mil : clickrate 1cm/100m = 0.1 mrad ( if this is correct ? ). So if Im right it doesn't matter in which magnification the scope is, that 1cm per click always stays the same is that correct ?

[Shuggy]

My advice is to forget about linear distances on the target and just remember that 'what you see is what you dial', i.e. measure the offset of the strike in mils with the reticle and then dial the correction in mils. This will work at any range and at any magnification.

[ds1]

Each click moves bullet impact 0.1 mil-radian, it is an angular subtension. In practicality you can think of it as each click moving bullet impact: 0.5cm at 50m, 1cm at 100m, 2cm at 200m, 3 cm at 300m and so on.

[ghillie.art.design]

Isnt that the rules for SFP scopes, 0.5/50m, 1/100m etc. Or do i mistaken ?

[srvet]

The click values of the turrets stay the same in both FFP and SFP scopes. What changes is the relative size of the reticle in relation to the image of the target. FFP scopes have a consistent relationship between reticle and target with different zoom settings but with SFP scopes the mil measurement off the reticle will only work at a defined magnification. You are correct that 1mil represents 10cm at 100m, 20 cm at 200, 100 cm at 1000m etc. Using this example a FFP scope will always measure 10cm at 100m as 1 mil regardless of zoom setting whilst my 25 power SFP scope will only measure accurately when set at 25 power. If I measure the same 10cm distance at 12.5 power it will measure 0.5 mil

[VarmLR]

What Shuggy said.

 

Don't get too wrapped up in the detail. Milrads work just the same as Minutes of Angle, it's just the units are cm instead of inches. If you're zeroing at 100m and the bullet strike is 2cm to the left, dial 2 clicks right and you're on target. At 100 yards, there are 3.6 Inches to a Milliradian, so the adjustment per click becomes 0.36 inches per click. Simples. Not as fine an adjustment as 1/4moa but good enough. I prefer working in Mils now I'm used to it and with a simple mildot or better still, a Mil-hash ret, it makes windage allowance for shifting wind patterns easy (ie holdoff). Calculate windage allowance and use the ret.

 

It's a FFP scope so what magnification you set is irrelevant. The ret markings will always equate to the same offset distances.

[Chanonry]

What Shuggy said....

 

Forget linear distances, it is not relevant. Use the scope as a ruler. If you are off 0.1, dial 0.1.

 

The idea of thinking in linear distances defeats the point of a system with reticle and turrets in the same units. The whole point is to make it fast by using the reticle as a rule to measure the error and either hold or dial what you see for the follow up shot.

 

Lots and lots of discussion on this over on SnipersHide. Google some of Lowlights lessons/posts. Good learning resource on the whole FFP thing

[dave thorniley]

+1 for above, its seems to me that everybody wants scopes in the ffp and not sfp, I have 6 mk4.s and have used them for years and never found a problem with them, my scope are 25 power and I use them on that power, I cant see the point in buying a high powered scope then turning the mag down, ive shot out to near 1000yds with sfp scopes and never had a problem, or is ffp the new fashion, at the end of the day whether ffp or sfp if it works use it, either wont make you shoot better.dave

[Shuggy]

+1 for above, its seems to me that everybody wants scopes in the ffp and not sfp, I have 6 mk4.s and have used them for years and never found a problem with them, my scope are 25 power and I use them on that power, I cant see the point in buying a high powered scope then turning the mag down, ive shot out to near 1000yds with sfp scopes and never had a problem, or is ffp the new fashion, at the end of the day whether ffp or sfp if it works use it, either wont make you shoot better.dave

There are two good reasons why you might want to turn down the magnification. Firstly to reduce the effects of mirage; and secondly to increase your field of view - for example, it is quite useful to see where your neighbours' shots are going. I mostly use my PM2 set at 12-18 power.

 

There's absolutely nothing wrong with SFP and most shooters seem to find it hard to get their heads around anything but SFP with MOA. However, once you try FFP mil/mil and appreciate its advantages, it's very hard to go back to anything else.

[Will0]

^^ completely agree!

 

FFP Mil/Mil takes all thought out of zeroing a rifle, correcting your shots at range. On the NRA course they shook their heads, asking how I'd manage to convert my hits on target to how many MOA rings I'd have to adjust by: easy! Use the reticle as a ruler, adjust what you just measured.

 

I can't add anything new, but I'm happy I made the change. Just to echo what's already been said, I often tell people to forget 1cm at 100m, it just adds a minor complication to the situation. You've spent the cash on a lovely measuring device so you can take that calculation out of your head and enjoy it :-)

Zeroed a friends air rifle that was way (WAY) off target last week, working out corresponding "click value" for the 16yd distance we were shooting at reminded me of the absolute pleasure in FFP with corresponding reticle.

[tackb]

My advice is to forget about linear distances on the target and just remember that 'what you see is what you dial', i.e. measure the offset of the strike in mils with the reticle and then dial the correction in mils. This will work at any range and at any magnification.

^^^^this

[dave thorniley]

thanks guys, but im not a target shooter, i go to a range just to zero my rifles at 200yds, and use my rifles for hunting, anyway i can see the benefits to a sfp scope, but am i going to sell all my scopes and buy new scopes in sfp , NOPE i don't think so,but good thread. regards dave.

[CameronWilson]

I've read/heard lots of stories of people moving to FFP from SFP, but I can't recall a single person moving from FFP to SFP.

 

Personally, I could never go back to SFP - there are just too many additional things to go wrong. Yes there used to be an argument that at high magnifications/long range, FFP reticles could end up 'hiding' the target - but modern glass etched reticles such as the Vortex EBR-2C have solved this issue.

[phillips321]

All my scopes are either fixed focal plane or fixed mag. I hate the fact that mil dot rets only work on a specific mag on SFP scopes. FFP is easier, or better yet just go for a fixed 6x or 8x and forget about the rest.

 

Anyways, if you're shooting under 200 yards most calibers are an inch high at 100 and then just point and squeeze, job done.

[VarmLR]

To 200 yards, it doesn't really matter what you use. One of the nicest scopes to use that I possess is an old Bisley Sterling De-Lux 4 x 44 WA scope. To 200 yards, it's all the scope I need for hunting. Target is a different proposition out to long range, and as above, whilst I have FFP and SFP target scopes, I will, at some point, be swapping the SFP Nightforce for another FFP scope. Just makes life a lot easier when walking the first few shots in at long range.