F class shooting

[Nick 53]

Half way through my current barrel which is 1-9 30" heavy profile barrel 284 shooting Scenar L 180 7mm.

MV 2691.

 

Do I buy another barrel with the above current set up ? Or go slightly longer 32" 1-9 .?

 

Action is a Remington.

Cheers Nick

[dasherman]

MV seems a bit low, would expect to see 2850 with a 32" tube/.284/180g

[ezmobile]

I agree with Dasherman. I'd also consider putting a slightly faster twist on it too, 1:8 / 1:7.5 to use the longer high BC bullets out now.....just a thought.

[Nick 53]

Hi my MV is for a 30" 1-9 barrel!

[triggersqueezer]

Hi my MV is for a 30" 1-9 barrel!

 

still slow i'm running a very tame load 100 fps faster

[Nick 53]

Each to there own! Happy with my load. . Just don't have the time to get to Diggle on a Thursday.

Cheers

[Blue Haze]

In any case - you have nothing to loose with a 32" barrel in F Class.

 

You can then use a straight .284 to get to 2900 fps without braking a sweat, or back it off to whatever you feel is suitable and give your brass and barrel an easy life (which is surely the point of a .284 and not using a WSM).

 

For reference I send 180 grain Berger H @ 2880 fps with a 32" barrel, and can get north of 3050 fps without pressure signs.

[Nick 53]

Cheers blue Haze

[Big Al]

Half way through my current barrel which is 1-9 30" heavy profile barrel 284 shooting Scenar L 180 7mm.

MV 2691.

 

Do I buy another barrel with the above current set up ? Or go slightly longer 32" 1-9 .?

 

Action is a Remington.

Cheers Nick

 

 

What exactly is your thinking Nick?

 

Are you wanting to have a new barrel chambered/proofed in readiness of you old barrel going, are you thinking about changing your half worn existing one or are you wanting to have a new barrel to load develop while still having the old one as a shooter?

 

Its not clear to me your motive behind the question?

[gbal]

On all Big Al's three options-and maybe others- I read Nick's OP as :

 

"With the set up given,and no other changes,would there be any benefit from a 32 inch barrel rather than the 30"barrel"

 

I'd imagine increased MV (perhaps potentially around 50-60 fps,maybe a bit less,given NIck's prefered moderate loading) would be the motive,but only NIck can really 'clarify'.

 

gbal

[Nick 53]

Hi,

When my 30" 1-9 barrel comes to end of life ! I think the guidelines are 2500 rounds.

What I was wondering do I just replace with obvious a new barrel with same spec ? Or do I go an extra 2" ?

I wasn't sure if the extra 2" would do anything?

My current load is Viht 165 with a modest 53 grains. Shooting a Lapua Scenar L 180 gn .

I started of with 58 grains Viht 165, but these turned out to be bloody hot and brass was flowing backwards and distorting my case heads.

I then reduce the load to 56.2 and that was still hot and distorting the brass.

Spoke to Laurie and was advised to load at 53 gn. Hearing chatter through the Fclass group at Diggle it was mentioned that the bullet weight would work better!

[triggersqueezer]

2500 good luck with that 2" won't win or loose a match nick.we often see the 308 boys score better and its down to shooter after basic accuracy is achieved.like the rest of us just keep at it pal and try to take something from every match.if you don't learn from a match what went wrong it is hard to get better.i spent last weekend getting my ass kicked again ........but i learned something.

mike

[Nick 53]

Hi Mike, I am getting better, but sometimes that info from fall of shot doesn't make sense! Luckily I have the pleasure of shooting with a mixture of members. Vince has done a lot of straightening me out and he's has got me this far. Laurie is a saint on load developement.

Like Vince plenty of trigger time pays dividends!

And gradually my scores are going up.

Good bunch from Diggle.

[gbal]

 

Nick,fall of shot is almost always definitive-it does not of course tell you why it is as it is....and not as expected....thee is usually a driver error then (from erroneous chron MVs,to porr ballistic info input,to poor wind reading...to errors in dialing etc..)

There is much to be learned from listening to the right people-you name two.

Triggersqueezer's point is pertinent-given reasonably gear,it's wind reading that matters,and sorts out the field...just as it does at the top,with excellent gear...but the purchased differential is quite small compared to the skill factor of reduced wind error throughout....good news,this means shoot more,and pay attention to fall of shot...physics are very seldom wrong!

 

So you are now shooting 180g Lapua. Scenars at 2691 from a 284w chambered 30 inch barrel with 53g V165 @MV 2691fps (?yes?)

 

You might get 40-50 fps more from a 32 inch barrel,with the same load etc,if that was your query.It is a tad moderate,as some have mentioned -but if suits,fine-some claim unhealthy MVs,but check their fall of shot/competition success/barrel life! Those 50 fps won't transform it,but helps,of course.

 

Out of interest,just how did you come by your cartridge distorting powder weights of 58g,and 56.2g of V165....as you can see,these are hot indeed compared to eg Laurie's recommendation (perhaps just as well MVs were not given!!) Interesting some give MV,SD etc,but not typical scores etc....wonder why? Learn and enjoy...they increase together!

 

gbal

[Nick 53]

Hi gbal yes my MV is 2691 .

In respect of previous powder weights, it was recommended that I start off at 58.0 gn and like you said a hot load! With the information of head damage and asking Vince what should I do , it was opted to reduce the load to 56.2 . Unfortunately for myself I was in a quadmire! As I assumed the reduced load to 56.2 would be fine, secondly after reading about OAL and my bolt on odd occasions very stiff in closing I assume the brass was at fault so I trimmed back from 2"165 to 2"160 . Now the pressure sings on the brass were still there and some resistance in closing the bolt as my OAL was 3"120. At this point I rang my good mate Steve DUNN up and told him the problems I was having.

In a swift action Steve re measure my OAL with case and bullet and concluded a new OAL 3"117 was required.thus a new charge of 53 gn Viht 165. Now since I had a New purpose built barrel the downside was I didn't get the section of barrel were u can use to see how the bullet sits whilst in the barrel. ( sorry I don't quite know what item is called ). I have since reloaded to the new OAL 3.117 th and using a gauge from the ogive to head stamp of the case I get a consistent OAL . Again reading on 6mmbr page I have slowed down my reloading and taken more care in producing quality reloaded ammo. Cheers Nick

[triggersqueezer]

how does it group at 100 ?

[Nick 53]

Hi gbal, in addition to the 2 people I mentioned, I was on the verge of jacking in my shooting as I was having terrible time.

To the point of throwing my rifle in the river ! Spoke to Vince and within a few months my rifle was transformed into a mean machine , new barrel, new trigger, load developement, and I even changed my scope from Nightforce NPR2 reticle to a sightron LRMOA . In addition I read loads! Email Vince loads which in turn his patience and guidance was amazing. I attended a plotting course ran buy Laurie which was amazing. And finally I watched various videos from You tube ,

 

I fully appreciate for the guidance and patience these two guys , gave me and therefore are for ever very grateful and one day if I could help a shooter like I was helped and guided.there are a few other range people that have been helpful.

[Nick 53]

hi triggersqueezer , I did a 5 shot group some time ago, but I can't find the photo to show . And I still can't load photos onto this forum! Cheers Nick

[Elwood]

58 grains of N165 is a typical load for a 284 Shehane, which has a 3 grain increase over the .284. I'm amazed that you could even get 58 grains in the case and seat a bullet.

[Nick 53]

Hi grumpy game keeper, the case was rather full! I wasn't aware of the powder being squashed!

But thankfully that weight has gone now and I am using a modest 53 gn charge.

[gbal]

Thanks,Nick...I had the impression reading between the lines of your first post that there was a bit more to your OP than just what would two inches more barrel offer....but didn't quite expect this Pandora's box...glad though you are sorted and a happy bunny-you have had a steep and rough learning curve.

Mainly-check out every 'recommended' load-though I'd go with Laurie,Vince,and Stevie Dunn,with confidence.But the. 58g of V165 is NOT good-as Elwood says,it's a stout load for the 284 Shehane,which has 3.3 g more capacity-being generous,perhaps you misheard (or the advisor did)the 'Shehane" bit....it's a different kettle of kernels ! V165 issn't much quoted in manuals for the 284-itself a newish cartridge as a competition round (though it is indeed an old 60s number for the defunct win 88 rifle (I have one)so there is limited public domain info to check.The 7mm. Cartridges in 'Accurate shooter" (6BR as was ,do give one load for V150 with 168g,I think-Vihtavouri isn't much used in US (other than V133 which dominates 100 Bench Rest) as it isn't widely available and is pricier than the US options-the opposite applies in Europe. I've not used it,rather the US choice of Hogdon 4831s/c in the Shehane,where 57g gives around 2925fps,and shoots well.The 284 is a bit below 30-o6,so there is some crude check possible...as ever,start low and carefully work up....OK,history now...but I'd not listen much to those that recommended 57g for the ('straight') 284w......thankfully,all fingers and rifle still intact.

The 'check bullet' thingy is a replica chamber cut into a short barrel piece,and then with a cut out window-the same reamer as did your chamber-a handy thing to have. Note COAL is only useful to check cartridge will fit magazine. Bullets do vary in length-the Bergers less so-fromthe box,so loaded rounds need measuring base to ogive-which is what contacts the rifling,,when concerned with seating depth-a few variable thou of tapered tip do not,-ogive is the thing-and what is measured with the insert guage etc.

(See Bryan LItz on this issue- CBTO,not COAL,as COAL is largely meaningless as a chamber measure-and of course is not consistent wrt rifling/seating in other rifles-or advice for yours-"jump" from ogive to rifling seated is far better guide....

OK,quite a story...as it unfolded-glad your rifle did not meet the river...less convinced about trading NF scope for the (good) Sightron,but maybe it was the better target reticule (NF have better ones too for purpose).

Another good reliable and well informed writer on BR is German Salazar-some are in the Accurate Shooter articles-he's also meticulous and uses decent samples-not three shot averages and such foolishness-shooting is characterised by variation (and it's reduction) and that means decent samples-if you act on three shots,you will as often as not be wasting time-get ten or more-it's easier in the end! (But not loaded with 57g in 284-unless it's a Shehane chamber!!)

Good to hear Stevie is still giving good advice-he was very kind to me back in my rookie BR Diggle days,as was Vince...and Laurie is just a legend on reliable tested powder issues (and you can be sure he doesn't just shoot three shots).....That's one of the checks on advice....nicely,ask what it's based on....( mentally,reject If it's cherry picked,one off and suchlike.)..oh,and think about whether extreme MV is really translating into more precision/accuracy....for your rifle,shooting needs and,above all,pleasures!

Very pleased you are now sorted! Good,and safe,shooting,NIck.

 

gbal

[Nick 53]

Thank you gbal for your reply . Much appreciated Nick