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.308 bullet weight?


MrCetrizine

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I'm just about to start reloading for .308

It's an RPR so 20" 1:10

I'll be shooting for score mostly at 600m but sometimes 800m and on occasion 1000m but only for fun.

 

I have dozens of part boxes of .223 of various weights that my rifle doesn't like and want to avoid the same with .308 if I can.

 

Is there a preferred bullet weight for competitively shooting targets up to 600m that could also be stretched to 1000m with no illusions of winning a competition or even entering one at that distance?

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155g (Sierra and Lapua do good target bullets here-and of course,Berger)

168g -but most will not be stable beyond 700y or so. Go with 155g-the classic Palma match bullet.

 

gbal

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Try the 178s and 185s your 1:10 will like these no doubt :-)

 

With a 20" Barrel you will be running out of steam with the 155s at around 800yds.

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It's a balance thing-with useage. The 20 inch barrel will lose velocity with any bullet compared to a longer barrel...maybe the heavies need the velocity more...but I was also factoring in recoil-which has impacts on 'accuracy'- via .shootability,and. Avoiding the 'try a good few and see'-given the OP point about abandoned part boxes....FWIW,the 308 isn't a very good 1000y cartridge anyhow,though quite useable-but then it's not going to be used at 1000 in any serious way....so on balance,why take unneccessary punishment out to the prevalent use to 600y for no gains at all? A brake would help,of course,and help any recoil-this isn't a wimp thing-it's just plain harder to shoot well as recoil increases. (One reason the ballistically superior 6.5 CM,and even the 6BR/Dasher come into the reckoning-no BR in the Ruger,of course).Mike,when I shot only 1000y,in 308 I used the 185/190 g bullets,but it wasn't a pleasure to shoot them in a 10 lb rifle.... Just had to live with that.... :-)

 

gbal

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Thanks guys. From responses here and elsewhere, I think 155, probably Lapua is the way to go.

 

My local RFD also stocks Sako Racehead 168 gr factory ammo which I'm told is superb and about as good as factory ammo gets so I may try 20 of those as a backup plan which will eliminate ending up with a half box of dusty bullets.

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If you go down the 155 route you will need to achieve in the reagion of 2800 to 2900 FPS to get to 1000yds with some consistency I would say

 

The 185 jugganaughts may be the best way to go with the 10 twist

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Consistency at 1000m doesn't bother me too much. If I can get a 10% hit rate on steel plates, I'll be more than happy.

 

It's 600m where is going to matter for me.

 

I was initially going to get a 6.5CM and shoot mainly at 1000m but due to my club being mostly made up of people who like owning guns but never seem to shoot them or old giffers who like to chat for 3 hours then fire 3 rounds at 100m then get drunk, we had trouble getting enough numbers for a decent competition when it meant driving to Bisley or Diggle.

 

By compromising on using our local 600m MoD range, we got some more people sign up but it made .308 with its cheaper, more readily available components (for the moment) a more suitable choice.

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My first rifle, that's now primerially my stalking rifle, is a 308, 1-10 twist, and I could never get a satisfactory result with 150/155 bullets for target shooting, hunting was ok, but not to my want for target shooting

I made the compromise and use 165/167 bullets and that has got me where I'm reasonably happy, if and when used on targets, out to 600 and an improvement with the hunting round

Generally it achieves between 1/2 to 3/4 MOA at best and 1 MOA at worst

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I have been shooting Lapua scenar L 155s in FTR. I found a good node at 2950 fps. This shot well at 800, poorly at 900 and awfully at 1000. You need to stay above transonic speed i.e. 1340fps at 1000 and to do that according to my ballistics i.e. need mv of 3050+. This is achievable with my 32 inch barrel but finding a node around there currently eludes me. The Palma bullet which I guess flies better through transonic may be a better bet! Laurie Holland on here has listed some bullets that go well through transonic but some are hard to get now.

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I have been shooting Lapua scenar L 155s in FTR. I found a good node at 2950 fps. This shot well at 800, poorly at 900 and awfully at 1000. You need to stay above transonic speed i.e. 1340fps at 1000 and to do that according to my ballistics I need mv of 3050+. This is achievable with my 32 inch barrel but finding a node around there currently eludes me. The Palma bullet which I guess flies better through transonic may be a better bet! Laurie Holland on here has listed some bullets that go well through transonic but some are hard to get now.

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A .308 with a 20" barrel will always be able to reach 1000yds and hit a gong (what size gong/paper though?)....It might not print acceptable group sizes for the 'target aficionado's' but, using it for what you're intending (fun?) it has never been and, never will be a problem even with a 20" barrel. With the correct load recipe your only enemy is wind, not the ability of the calibre...

 

Of course, there might very well be more apt calibres for a 1000m shooting than .308. but your reasoning of economy and availability of components justifies every shot you'll take and the "fun" you'll have

 

Out of your 1/10 twist try the 175g SMK..it will excel at 600, be good at 800 and probably hit the gong at 1000m - where, who cares, but you'll hit it

 

ATB

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Well this has given me a lot of hope for hitting the target at 1000m with a 20" barrel even if it never wins a competition (not that I'm planning to enter one).

 

 

Well yes. Is Lowlight shooting his 185gr Juggernaught over MR2000 load in that video? I forget. Worth doing some more digging on Snipershide

 

The mv he is getting is not your average. He has a high bc bullet (to retain velocity downrange), a higher energy powder and a fast high grade barrel (to maximise launch velocity, whatever maximise means). May even be loaded long so it is not true saami 308 spec. That bit more powder makes a difference. So the aggregation of marginal gains (sic) makes a big difference.

 

His consistent performance at that range from a 308 from an 18" barrel was not something that happened without some considerable experience and investment.

 

You could look at a Berger 180gr Hybrid / Juggernaught/OTM or something similar to maximise bc to retain downrange velocity. Get the 'best' bullet you can as it does the flying which is what it is about. You could try to get MR2000 and replicate Frank's load. I would also measure the max coal to the lands and would load to that, forget the magazine it is probably an unnecessary limitation. Load single rounds.

 

For 1000 yards things have moved on. Really the answer is to bin the 308 barrel, fit a 6.5 or a high twist 6 and you will have more loads that will deliver without all the angst.

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I agree with most posts,generally-though there is too much focus on 1000y performanc,given the OP 'neede'-mainly 600y,a bit of 800 ..amd only 'fun' plinks occasionally at 1000y. Almost any bullet in the normal 308 envelope will be fine for 600-and gun handling (aka recoil etc) is important-for the heavies,it may be a price worth paying at distance (but check out report today on 1000y at Diggke in a 20 mph gust hooley-the 6BR can remain 'competitive'-in such a lottery (for

most-skilled wind readers still do best-calibre is secondary).

Chanonry makes the important points about the video-this is not a 'standard' 308 Howinrem rifle-George Gardiner smithed GAP with Bartlein etc....pity the ammo was not mentioned...it's also very unlikely that this combo was not sighted in prior to camera....but it's reliably hitting prob a USPC figure steel ( near enough a FIg 11) and has a hit too on the 14x9 sub half size one...well and good.

Of course 308 can do that-FTR supports,though equally of course,308w is not a top competitive open class 1000y cartridge.

Barrel length is not too critical - 308w can go that far,even loaded 'normally'-Quick load says (and plenty independent confirmaton from real cut barrel s) that in the 2500 ish MV band,an inches less barrel translates to 25 fps loss...(it's a tad less with longer barrels-or rather the gain is about 20-22 fps-hence the 30+ FTR barrels in 308W there-t helps..)...but tactical precision shooters want more easily handled rifles-shooting under time pressure from barriers etc,and first round cold barrel hits needed,on 1-2 moa targets,most well under 100y....and 20 inch is no handicap for that.

Of course,almost any cf bullet will reach 100y-and in 308 the differnce is drop,inevitably-but Gravity is a constant from shot to shot-and allowance is therefore a click in (the heavier better BC bullets actually drop more,but the BC gives superior wind drift reductions-and thaat Ia a variable,difficult to judge (see Diggle results!) hence the case for the heavier but better BCs..eg :

 

Black hills 155 AMax BC.435 @2750. 600 84/34. 800 196/66. 1000y 383/112

Cor Bon 190 HPBT BC.520@2600. 600. 88/30. 800. 199/57. 1000 377/95

 

drop/drift,10 mph wind all SAAMI loads,24 " barrel -so knock off 100fps (not vel/BC etc interact, but thre isn't a huge ,non correctable difference....and accuracy matters of course,probably more-cheap hunting loads may be essential for game,a liability for LR targets).

 

I note that my Rem 700 SSFV 308 shot OK to 1000y (moa was almost exactly wind speed...5mph 5 inches (rare) 15 mph 15 inches(less rare..:-)but was never a pleasure ( esp compared to the nice 6BR....load was 43. V140 190 MK, longer 25 " barrel of course...

A tikka continental with Shilen tight neck was its equal to 700 at least (no 1000 measured data) with 155 and v140-neither were as pleasant to shoot,nor superior to the short 308w (1.5 Barnes,125g flat base Speer,V130) to 600,where the Barnes fell off the cliff...

A Steyr CISM 308 with short barrel was accurate too,maybe not the ideal 1000y 308...but not tested (V140,155 match bullets)

 

6BR (two) is at least as accurate,more shootable-matters IF you go for the competition fashion of 5 shots under 20 secs,but that is largely irrelevant here (I imagine),or if you just want to enjoy macho free "equal and opposite reaction" -esp if you have a very good brake/mod-or both,which will enable easy 'splash' view(into sand etc)-modest 308 loads too.

 

Just a thought,though the rather good data on "Accurate Shooter" site suggests twist isn't too critical,there could be a case for the 175g bullet in a 1/10;as avery good 'do it all' 308 bullet-if your barrel likes them-ultimately,a big factor (SMK though do well in most).

 

Ultimately it's physics(though personal fancy is often added-price to pay,maybe):at l longer ranges,you just have to balance cartridge,MV,BC and probably rifle weight (recoil management) - you can trade off one a bit,but the total aggregate for your rig has to add up-if not,it's less satisfactory/competitive/effective even as a fun plinker-something incidentally,not to be underated-but ask how you feel about one hit in five or ten attempts....if ok,indulge your fancies,if not check the physics/ballistics first..... :-)

 

Against a benchmark like the (now outclassed) 6.5x284 at 1000y you need:

 

224. 90g BC .502 MV 3270

6mm. 115g BC.585 MV 3065

6.5 142g BC.565 MV 2950

7mm 175g BC.596 MV 2800

308 220g .627 MV 2650

Not all these are equally achievable,without unknown pressure increases

Recoil increases from 7 to 13+ ft lb as Calibre increases,so rifle weight to compensate increase 10.3 to 23.2 correspondingly (the latter might run into rifle issues... But alternately,and better news,barrel life increases with calibre....so you might even get used to the 30 clout in time....

 

Plenty choice-what's needed/sensible/optional etc just varies within the above parameters-the casual/club non competitive shooter has far more flexibility in choice....and probably just as much enjoyment/fun...that's a mental subjective,not physics.

 

Pick 'n'choose...but you can't cherry pick.

 

Gbal

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  • 4 weeks later...

Just to close this thread off.

I went with 155gn Sierra Palma with N150 running just short of 2700fps.

After very easy load development it's shooting 10 shot groups at 100m on average 0.4". Best 100m group of 0.22" and worst of 0.86".

 

Yesterday, I comfortably won the first round of my club's 600m competition.

 

Thanks to all.

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Well done!

 

Those are very respectable groups at 100 yds.

 

I've used the classic 190 smk's very successfully at 1000, and found them very tolerant of the transonic region, shooting them at 2500fps in a 24 inch barrel. (in my case using 42.4gr of N140 as that is what I had to hand). They produced a 0.3" ragged one hole 5 shot group at 100 yds.

 

For 600 and 1000, the 175 TMK is an excellent round, where shorter barrels benefit from the decent BC and will comfortably give you good accuracy at 1000. It works well with N150 and also reputedly well with RS50.

 

It might also be worth trying RS50 with the 155's too (that will be good for all up to 190 from the .308).

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