Expansion with 30gr Berger varmints

[Boydy47]

Anyone had experience with this bullet?

 

Picked up 300 as they were relatively cheap, went out and did some initial load testing last night with 28gr of Exterminator looking very promising on the accuracy front, based on the data and compared to what I'm getting with 40gr SBKs I should be getting around 3800-3850 fps.

 

As I had the NV with me and a few of the test rounds left I decided to go and sit up on the top of the truck and see how they performed on quarry. Had a rabbit and a fox, both around the 100 yard mark I had expected the round to be very explosive at that speed but that's not what I found. On the chest shot rabbit expansion (damage) was far less than I get with the 40 gr SBK at 3650 fps or my hornet load of 35gr v-max at 3050 fps. The fox was quartering so shot was front of shoulder and I had a 1/2" exit on the opposite side of the chest, the fox dropped on the spot and I really hadn't expected to see an exit, possibly just a piece of jacket? But exit hole was perfectly round.

 

Just wondering what experience others have had with this bullet? I could push them a little faster as data goes up to 29.1 gr (compressed load) but can't imagine I'll get much more than an extra 80-100 fps.

 

had planned to try these in the hornet but may be a bit too hard!

[swagger]

Not the bullet that your using but, I tried the 140gr VLD hunting in .284 going 3200.

Whilst accurate they did not expand reliably so I stopped using them.

 

It does seem that there are expansion reliability issues across the board with Berger, shame!

 

ATB,

Joe

[gbal]

Boydy..."the fox dropped on the spot' doesn't seem like a terminal performance failure...though an exit is indeed -to an unknown extent ... " energy wasted in the bl*ody heather". ( just how 'bl**dy' matters too...!

 

But there have been some concerns about some Berger Bullets-enough to have Berger rebox them with "hunting" on the box/tin,or not.

 

Transfering useage to UK species won't help often-Bergers are not designed for UK quarry especially.

 

Without necessarily agreeing with eg Nathan Foster in detail -NZ- his general point is fair enough- detailed study of terminal performance tends to lag behind eg "BC",which is way much the wrong way round for game shot under 300y.

Penetration-as appropriate to the quarry -and energy transfer are as important as 'expansion'-which can occur close to surface,or maybe not at all.

Complex topic indeed.

 

gbal

[Boydy47]

Thanks for the replies, they will no doubt kill things as dead as dead but I do like the added safety factor of very frangible bullets.

 

More field testing in order I guess, 2 shots on game is hardly a definitive test.

[gbal]

Of course,two successes are not definitive,nor would be two failures-though a bt more concerning.

 

There are thoufh important differnces in bullet performance-sufficient penetration to the vital areas,yes.

 

But progressive expansion,retaining much of the core weight (mushrooming) is quite different from "frangible"-ie disintegrating into rather small fragments. The problem with such 'frangible" bullets is that they may not penetrate very far,and cause serious but not

quickly fatal 'surface' wounds.

This may be unlikely on small light bodied animals,but such bullets should never be used on large deer etc.

Most varmint bullets are designed for rapid expansion ,not usually fragmentation-though some are and are so described (Varmint Grenades for example.

I take the 'safety' point-ie reduced ricochets,especially when the quarry is missed.

 

I hope you continue to enjoy effective terminal performance,without too much overpenetration collateral heather damage! :-)

 

gbal

[22cf]

I used 80gn berger varmint in my .243 many years ago, I found them to be quite a poor varmint bullet too, they were very accurate but just didn't do the business on impact.

[Toby]

They are the preferred fox bullet over here for 222/3 Rem users. Usually fragment and do not exit on bib and shoulder shots. Don't think Berger make them any more although I maybe wrong. I know that the 40 grain version is available. I use 25 grain Berger Varmints in my 17 Rem to good effect on fox.

[dave thorniley]

+1 what toby says I have shot bergers for may a year and have never had a problem on quarry quite the opposite my bergers work in all my rifles dave.

[17 Rem]

Apart from their 17 calibre bullets, I have never been happy with the terminal performance of Berger bullets. I experienced more ricochets with their lighter 6mm bullets than I thought possible. I tried the 35 grain 20 calibre ones and had crows walking off with shots that would have blown them up with a v max.

[Alycidon]

Apart from their 17 calibre bullets, I have never been happy with the terminal performance of Berger bullets. I experienced more ricochets with their lighter 6mm bullets than I thought possible. I tried the 35 grain 20 calibre ones and had crows walking off with shots that would have blown them up with a v max.

I found little difference in 6mm between Berger 68s and Vmax 65s, hit a bone and both let go, dont and they pencil through but kill.

 

Crows are very tough, I have had them fly off with damage you would not believe only to collapse maybe 100 yards away, but usually thats with a 17 cal.

 

A

[Boydy47]

Thanks chaps, I'll get 50 more loaded up and see how effective they are, they seem to be accurate which is a good place to start!

[VarmLR]

For all vermin, I just use a 60g flat base V-max. I've found it 100% reliable for first time kills at ranges up to 250 yards when driven at 3150fps. It's devastating on fox.