Powders for .284 Win

[ezmobile]

Hi. Has anyone any ideas for a good powder to use for the .284 win cartridge?

I'm having a rifle made (chambered in .284 Win) which will have a 30 inch heavy barrel with a 1:8 twist & I intend on driving heavy, high BC bullets (between 175 - 180 grain) out to 1000+ yards.

Can anyone suggest a powder, either Vihtavouri or RS, which is suitable for this role?

 

Cheers.

[Swarovski1]

H4831sc and RS 60 are the populars choices for the bigger high bc bullets, look on accurate shooter

[1967spud]

4831 sc powder of choiuce

[Laurie]

RS60, H4831 (straight or short-cut), Viht N165 all work. Some people swear by RS60/Re17, but it appears finicky in the cartridge with great results then suddenly stopping performing for no obvious reason. H4831sc is the standard US loading, although some American aficionados prefer the longer grain non short-cut variety.

 

Personally, I prefer N165, but it depends on the MVs you're looking for. This powder will give a 180 2,800-2,875 fps from a 30-inch barrel with a full case-load depending on the barrel make / internal dimensions. (I'm assuming you'll have a freebore suited to the appropriate 180 giving 3.1-inch plus COAL.) N165 alongside the Australian Hodgdon H1000 are the two coolest burning powders in their class by a large margin and are reckoned capable of extending the 284's barrel life by as much as 1,000 rounds from the usual give or take estimate of ~2,000.

 

RS60 and RS70 will take you to 2,900 fps plus, even approaching 3,000, but at a considerable and rapidly rising cost in reduced barrel life the further you push MVs up.

[ezmobile]

Thanks so much for your input, its always much appreciated. And Laurie, you always go the extra mile.

Cheers all.

[ezmobile]

Hello Laurie.

I'm getting there slowly with this re-barreling work & like the sound of the N165 you suggested. Would you be able to suggest a ball park figure as a starting load for Sierra 180's (I know, how long is a bit of string?) but just something to get me off & running with this cartridge which is a new one to me.

As usual, any help would be really useful & appreciated.

Many thanks

[Laurie]

I've run the 180gn SMKs at 57.0gn N165 for a couple of years, (Lapua 6.5-284 brass expanded and neck-turned, Murom KVB-7 primer) but this is a compressed load and is giving slightly higher MVs than I want, so I'm in the process of dropping down to the node below which should fall out around 55-55.5gn.

 

So, I'd suggest starting somewhere around 52 or 53gn and working up. You want something that groups well in the 2,800-2,850 fps MV range.

 

One thing to watch with SMKs is that they're not very consistent compared to say Bergers in terms of BTO measurements, OALs, and tip shapes. I found a large improvement in 180gn SMK long-range performance by BTO batching followed by trimming / pointing.

 

IME, the older 175gn SMK (still available) is an easier bullet to tune. Its BC is only marginally below that of the 180gn version. I can't comment on its long-range performance yet in the 284, although I might be able to next week if Saturdays' weather doesn't wreck the scheduled PSSA 1,000 yard comp at diggle this weekend. If anything, its BTO measurements are even less consistent than those of the 180 (around a 10 thou' range, most in 3), so BTO batching is essential.

[Swarovski1]

Hi laurie.can u give me an approximate velocity with n165 with a 26 inch barrel.my 284 has .220 free bore.opted for that after alot of searching as you can jam or jump.ive H4831sc and H4831.i did plan on running it on rs60 for the extra velocity from shorter barrel.

[Swarovski1]

I think I was given some n165 so I don't have to buy to try.that 300 wsm I watched last Sunday was running on n165 behind the 215gr hybrids

[Laurie]

Hi laurie.can u give me an approximate velocity with n165 with a 26 inch barrel.my 284 has .220 free bore.opted for that after alot of searching as you can jam or jump.ive H4831sc and H4831.i did plan on running it on rs60 for the extra velocity from shorter barrel.

 

Around 2,700-2,750 with a 180. You will get a fair bit more from RS60 most likely, (but you will cane the barrel).

[Swarovski1]

What about the 162gr amax on n165.

I thought using 180gr hybrids or scenars I would get around 2850 fps on rs60 and 3000 fps with 162gr amaxs from what I've found out.some of the info from accurate shooter.

[Laurie]

N165 would work with this bullet weight, but you run out of space in the case to get top MVs. RS60, RS70, Viht N560 as 'high-energy' powders will all provide another 100-150 fps with the 162 AMAX. The only straight single-based (nitrocellulose only) powder readily available that matches their MVs is IMR-7828 or its short-cut version 7828SSC which provide exceptionally high MVs in the 284 with all heavier bullet weights. (The old Dupont company developed 7828 specially for Remington in the 1960s to provide optimum performance with heavy bullets in the then new 7mm Remington Magnum and it works very well in many larger case 7mm cartridges.)

 

Be VERY careful with some of the things said about, and loads quoted for Alliant Re17 (Reload Swiss RS60) on Accurate Shooter. Some reports are from its early days soon after introduction in the USA when 284 (6XC and one or two other cartridge users too) found they could get 200 fps higher MVs without apparent pressure issues, and there was a rush amongst those in the know to switch from H4831 and similar to get a competitive advantage. It took some months or maybe a year for the horror stories to appear reporting the downsides if you go too far with this powder - temperature sensitivity seeing blown primers and other pressure problems on hot days, and rapid barrel wear with tubes shot out in very short timespans indeed. Many early Re17 284 Win shooting fans ditched this powder after their first rebarrel and returned to H4831.

 

That's not to say there is anything wrong with these powders and Re17/RS60 in particular, as long as loads are kept sensible and less than maximum MV gains are taken. Obviously, the significance here depends on use and round counts - a sporting shooter only occasionally practising / zeroing, otherwise taking single shots at game is in a very different situation from the person who shoots a match most weekends.

 

So far as the Reload Swiss powders go, the long-grained RS62 single-based tubular powder looks a possibility in 284 with the 162gn bullet, although I've not heard of anybody using it. (it was originally developed by Nitrochemie for the .270 Win with 130gn bullets, a cartridge whose internal ballistics are close to 284 Win and heavier bullets so you find the same powders tend to work well in both.) It and H4831sc stand half way between potential MVs from the slower burning N165 and the 'high-energy' RS60/70 etc. However, the Hodgdon powder's characteristics are ideally suited to this cartridge and it is a proven good performer in the 284. if you want a reasonable mix of performance and barrel life always go for H4831 - shame it's expensive and sometimes almost impossible to get hold of, but that's thanks to its usefulness and wide range of applications making it a first choice for many over in the USA. If you want performance and damn the barrel life, then RS60 is the one to use.

[Swarovski1]

Hi laurie.thanks for reply.i will try them and see what I find.barrel longlivity is something I am considering.ive bought a box 180gr hybrids to play with and ive got 500 162gr amaxs in stock.i will try the 180gr scenar l's because I can get them for a good price.i may just use RS60 for certain applications.until I know what works best it's hard to say.looking at the 180 grainers and 162s and predicted velocities the hybrids is only margin better on windage using RS60.not sure I will see the difference shooting prone.i do like the sound of n165 and 162gr amaxs.

[Brillo]

RS60, H4831 (straight or short-cut), Viht N165 all work. Some people swear by RS60/Re17, but it appears finicky in the cartridge with great results then suddenly stopping performing for no obvious reason. H4831sc is the standard US loading, although some American aficionados prefer the longer grain non short-cut variety.

 

Personally, I prefer N165, but it depends on the MVs you're looking for. This powder will give a 180 2,800-2,875 fps from a 30-inch barrel with a full case-load depending on the barrel make / internal dimensions. (I'm assuming you'll have a freebore suited to the appropriate 180 giving 3.1-inch plus COAL.) N165 alongside the Australian Hodgdon H1000 are the two coolest burning powders in their class by a large margin and are reckoned capable of extending the 284's barrel life by as much as 1,000 rounds from the usual give or take estimate of ~2,000.

 

RS60 and RS70 will take you to 2,900 fps plus, even approaching 3,000, but at a considerable and rapidly rising cost in reduced barrel life the further you push MVs up.

 

Somehow I missed this part of the post Laurie.

Interestingly, I've just tried N165 in my .284 (Barnard P action, 31" Tru-flite 8.5 twist barrel) and I can only get 2730 fps from a 55 grain load, and 2780-2790 from 56.5 grains (these two give me the best groups). The latter is right on the edge, pressure-wise (as per QuickLoad) but no visible pressure signs). If I load 0.3 grains more I see them.

Any ideas why I'm getting low velocities? The bullet used is Berger 180 VLD and COAL with it just kissing the lands is 3.195".

[Laurie]

I can only assume it is a bullet to barrel dimensions issue. I've seen other people get nigh on 2,900 fps from 180 Hybrids and VLDs from 57gn or thereabouts of N165, but I suspect they may be pushing pressures a bit, enough to affect case life.

 

My 284 barrel, a gain-twist 8.6 to 8 twist Bartlein didn't shoot Berger VLDs at all well, but took to Sierra MKs and there are no pressure issues at all at 57gn. My 7 Shehane (9-inch twist Benchmark) won't shoot Sierras but really suits the 180gn Lapua Scenar L, an excellent bullet and cheaper than Bergers. At over 59gn N165, it produces a lower MV than the straight 284 at ~2,820 fps with what appears to be very modest pressures - one finger on the underside of the bolt handle only needed to open the Barnard P bolt, only occasional body-sizing needed around every 4th loading, and what looks like excellent case life in prospect with tight primer pockets on the 5th to 8th loadings. Most people would want higher velocities from the Shehane, but I find that the just over 2,800 fps mark with 175s and 180s suits me.

 

So, it's the old, old story of loading advice being exactly that - advice - as every barrel and chamber is different. If you want higher MVs from the 'straight 284' and prefer to avoid added-nitroglycerin 'high-energy' powders, I'd suggest giving IMR-7828ssc a try. Otherwise it'd be Reload Swiss RS60, or maybe better the slower burning RS70. Nitrochemie shows RS70 on the same burning rate line as Alliant Re22, Norma MRP, Viht N165, and Hodgdon SUPERformance, but it has the patented EI infused deterrents technology that flattens and extends the peak pressure period in the early stages of the charge burn.

[Elwood]

Shhhhh Laurie, don't tell the world about IMR 7828sc, ordinary 7828 works just as well. I have to say I haven't noticed any real velocity gain using 7828sc over H4831sc.

[Laurie]

Oddly enough, H4831/4831sc is the one commonly used powder that I've no experience with in the cartridge. It was unobtainable when I started with the 284, but 7828 was to be found. I made a decision early on though that if the results were good enough I'd use N165 because of its its reputation for cool burning and giving long barrel life in the twosome, and I've got no reason to change as the MVs are more than good enough for my competitive shooting nowadays.

 

PS well done in the F-Class Euros today Ian - a great result. (Ian is lying in 2nd place at the end of day one after three stages tying on score with the leader Marco Been from the Netherlands but behind on V-Bull count.)

[Brillo]

Thanks for that info Laurie. I hadn't thought of that. I understand that the new Lapua 180 is slightly larger in diameter I'll beg some off a friend and re-try N165 and H4831SC with them.

[Swarovski1]

I can say I've never noticed any imr 7828ssc on the shelves of shops I've been in.i try to use what's more ready available.hodgdon powders are well over £100 per kilo which works out expensive for the target shooter that gets through alot of consumables. For the hunter it doesn't hurt.

[Laurie]

It's not a well known powder here in the UK, so many dealers won't keep it unless it's requested by a customer. However, the importers, Edgar Bros usually show it in stock even when Varget, H4350, and H4831 are unobtainable.

 

Yes, Hodgdon powders are very expensive now especially slow burners that are used in large charges. Still, running a short magnum or similar in F-Class isn't a good choice for paupers, if you consider that with say 1,000 rounds barrel life (and that with relatively mild loads) and £750 rebarrelling cost, that's £0.75 per round in 'hidden costs'.

 

Anybody noticed the recommended retail price too for the new 'super-F/TR' 200gn bullet?

 

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2016/09/berger-offers-new-200-20x-30-caliber-higher-bc-hybrid-bullet/

 

$63.40 per 100, and I'm sure that'll translate near enough to pounds on a 1 for 1 basis by the time we have them available given sterling's recent drop against the USD.

[Swarovski1]

I had a look on website of one of my shopping places and they did show imr 7828 and 7828ssc in stock,1 or 2 tubs of each, ive plenty of Rs 60, h4831sc and h4831, h4350, n150, n160, n165, n540, n550,varget, rel 19,aa 2520 and more lol

[Swarovski1]

Hi laurie

Trying n165 behind the 162gr amax, what powder grainage should I start on, cheers swaro

[DW58]

ive plenty of Rs 60, h4831sc and h4831, h4350, n150, n160, n165, n540, n550,varget, rel 19,aa 2520 and more lol

You must be a very wealthy hand loader to have "plenty" of so many powders - 12+ types apparently.

[Swarovski1]

I wish.alot of them are part tubs.i try to use up what I can.n165 and n550 was given to me.n150.n540.aa2520.rs40 and some others I've used in my 308.h4831sc.h4831 ran my 6.5 06 as did reloader 19.the h4831sc will run my 284.h4350 for my 6.5x47.ive got 1kg of n160 I think I've not used I will sell.rs60 and h4350 purchased recently.ive been using up the n540 in my 6.5x47 behind the 123gr amaxs.had a pb at 300yds last week.its all certainly adds up to alot of money.my n150 and n540 were 3.5kg tubs.its hard to keep ahead and stay stocked up.

[JTO]

I'm having a 284W rifle made with a 32" Bartlein barrel. I've got an un-opened tub of Reloder22, that I will be trying, to start with, having read this thread.