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#1 BERGEON

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 11:28 AM

Hello,

 

I'm a French Shooter, my new caliber is the 6.5CM in my Ruger Precision Rifle, I will test some reloads with 3 différents powder RS60, N160 and H4350 for a LR use with à good speed...

 

Have you experiences feedback? :) (In France the 6.5creedmoor isn't used,exept for me...)
 
A+
Laurent.

 

dscn8611.jpg



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#2 Brillo

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 12:07 PM

You don't say which bullets you'll be using.
The two bullets that work the best in my CM are the 140 grain A-Max and the 142 grain SMK.

I've tried RS60 and this gives high MVs but the most accurate powder so far, with the bullets mentioned, is H4350. With my load of 42.1 grains with both bullets I'm shooting around 2860 and 2850 fps respectively.

I've only shot the CM out to 900 yards so far, I only needed 19 moa of elevation to get there and hit the target.

This tells me that about 2850 fps is about right.

Ok, I could load the RS 60 and get 2950 fps but I know I'll lose out on accuracy.

HTH

"I feel sorry for those who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning they know that's the best they'll feel all day" - Dean Martin.


#3 Laurie

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 12:20 PM

I'd recommend RS62 instead of RS60 with all bullet weights from 120gn and above. I've not tried it yet myself, but with H. VarGet working very well with 120-123gn bullets (used in some factory loadings), Reload Swiss RS52 should work equally well with these bullet weights and very likely better.

 

For 120s to 130s, Viht N150 is a better match than N160. The new IMR-4451 is an alternative to H4350 (both powders imported and distributed across Europe by Edgar Brothers in the UK) and will likely have better availability given the ongoing supply chain problems between Australia and the USA for Hodgdon's ADI / Thales manufactured extruded grades.



#4 BERGEON

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Posted 12 July 2016 - 04:40 PM

You don't say which bullets you'll be using.
The two bullets that work the best in my CM are the 140 grain A-Max and the 142 grain SMK.

I've tried RS60 and this gives high MVs but the most accurate powder so far, with the bullets mentioned, is H4350. With my load of 42.1 grains with both bullets I'm shooting around 2860 and 2850 fps respectively.

I've only shot the CM out to 900 yards so far, I only needed 19 moa of elevation to get there and hit the target.

This tells me that about 2850 fps is about right.

Ok, I could load the RS 60 and get 2950 fps but I know I'll lose out on accuracy.

HTH

 

Hi Brillo,

 

I worked on a load with LAPUA Senar 136 gr "L" (42.5 gr RS60 - 2837fps) but I thinck the accuracy at 600m isn't good ( more elevation!)

dscn8510.jpg

 

With this load I need 20 MOA (zéro 600m) to go to 1000m...

I will test other powder to  improved my load with the LAPUA 136 gr  "L" GB546!

 

Thank for your help Brillo.

 

A+

Laurent



#5 BERGEON

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Posted 13 July 2016 - 05:57 AM

I'd recommend RS62 instead of RS60 with all bullet weights from 120gn and above. I've not tried it yet myself, but with H. VarGet working very well with 120-123gn bullets (used in some factory loadings), Reload Swiss RS52 should work equally well with these bullet weights and very likely better.

 

For 120s to 130s, Viht N150 is a better match than N160. The new IMR-4451 is an alternative to H4350 (both powders imported and distributed across Europe by Edgar Brothers in the UK) and will likely have better availability given the ongoing supply chain problems between Australia and the USA for Hodgdon's ADI / Thales manufactured extruded grades.

Hello Laurie,

 

Thanck for your reply!

 

I read with attention yours answers in this other post :

http://ukvarminting.com/forums/topic/31491-creedmoor-with-rs52/  :D

 

Sorry I don't have the RS62!

 

But last weekend I test at 300m in my RPR (LAPUA 136 gr "L"+NORMA Case) 10 rounds with RS60(42.5 gr/ 2837fps);  10 rounds with H4350(41.5 gr); 20 rounds with  N160 (44.5gr and 45 gr) .

(I don't know yet the speeds for the H4350 and N160! The X oft the electronic target mesuared 5cm (1.97''))

 

 

Laurie can you help me to coment my 4 tests  please ?

 

110.jpg210.jpg

 

With this load 42.5 RS 60 (as like my test at 600m and 1000m) i have always a Flyer and more elevation... (8)

 

About the load of H4350 I thinck I do increase the load over 41.5 gr to improve the goup!

 

 

 

311.jpg

The placement to the first bullet (in the 9) can explaining by the conditionement of the barrel with the 10 previous shots with H4350?

Because I thinck the accuracy of the last nine bullets is very good for à  load whith 44.5gr N160 at 300 m!

It's my magique load???

 

 

 

410.jpg

 

 

The increase load open the group! (bad accuracy!)

 

respecfuly

 

A+

Laurent. :) 



#6 Shuggy

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Posted 13 July 2016 - 06:16 AM

Hello Bergeon, welcome to the forum. I wonder: where did you obtain your Norma Creedmoor cases from? I was thinking about a rifle chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor, but the cases here are somewhat expensive.

#7 BERGEON

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Posted 13 July 2016 - 05:45 PM

Hello Bergeon, welcome to the forum. I wonder: where did you obtain your Norma Creedmoor cases from? I was thinking about a rifle chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor, but the cases here are somewhat expensive.

 

Hello Shuggy,

 

Yes the 6.5creedmoor cases are very expenssive! I buy my Norma 's case in germany (Waffen-Helfer) with the  gun Smith I buy my Ruger Precision Rifle (169€ one undred!)

 

I buy also 6.5 Creedmoor case on BROWNELL's .fr  one unded Hornady Case  (115.98€)

 

 I Buy one undred Lapua 22.250  for a nex Fireforming (100€ one undred)

 

411.jpg

22-250Rem LAPUA after NeckedUp)

 

A+

Laurent.



#8 Andrew

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Posted 13 July 2016 - 09:36 PM

I have never shot genuine 6.5 Creedmoor brass in my Ruger. It has been reformed PPU 22-250. Works great.~Andrew



#9 Shuggy

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Posted 13 July 2016 - 10:35 PM

Thanks Laurent. I always have this faint mythical hope that there is some continental source of cheap Norma brass. But it looks like everyone pays much the same. Reforming may be a much better option then.

#10 Laurie

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Posted 13 July 2016 - 11:09 PM

Of the powders you've tried, H4350 is usually regarded as the one most likely to produce good results, so you can use it as an initial benchmark. Try varying the load to tune the vertical out. I'd suggest starting a little below  41gn and working up in small steps to 41.8 or 41.9gn. Do it in threes or fours with 0.2 or 0.3gn steps.

 

If that doesn't work, it may be that your barrel simply doesn't care for the 136gn Scenar-L, or that you need to make some radical changes in seating depths. The 136 is a VLD type design with quite an aggressive secant ogive. They tend to perform best when either seated into the start of the lands or paradoxically given a very large jump - some bullets in some barrels needing 50-80 thou' jumps. The Team Lapua F-Class guys in the USA were testing this bullet in 6.5X47s when they were first introduced a couple of years back and there has been a deafening silence since suggesting it's not been a productive exercise. I'd recommend the 140gn Nosler Custom Comp, 142gn Sierra MK, 140gn Berger LR BT, or 139gn Lapua Scenar. They are all usually easy to tune and most barrel internal configurations seem to like them. The old 139 is a wonderful bullet, and cheaper than the 136 'L'. With any of this quartet, seat them to jump 10 or 15 thou' as per personal preference - I always kick off with 15 with bullets like these and only rarely have to change afterwards.

 

Stick to H4350 initially if you change the bullet, then you can try the other powders once you find a bullet showing promise. The Creedmoor isn't a particularly fussy design so far as I've seen to date - a bit like 308 in that get a bullet that the barrel likes and a large number of powders give good results.



#11 BERGEON

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 06:27 PM

Of the powders you've tried, H4350 is usually regarded as the one most likely to produce good results, so you can use it as an initial benchmark. Try varying the load to tune the vertical out. I'd suggest starting a little below  41gn and working up in small steps to 41.8 or 41.9gn. Do it in threes or fours with 0.2 or 0.3gn steps.

 

If that doesn't work, it may be that your barrel simply doesn't care for the 136gn Scenar-L, or that you need to make some radical changes in seating depths. The 136 is a VLD type design with quite an aggressive secant ogive. They tend to perform best when either seated into the start of the lands or paradoxically given a very large jump - some bullets in some barrels needing 50-80 thou' jumps. The Team Lapua F-Class guys in the USA were testing this bullet in 6.5X47s when they were first introduced a couple of years back and there has been a deafening silence since suggesting it's not been a productive exercise. I'd recommend the 140gn Nosler Custom Comp, 142gn Sierra MK, 140gn Berger LR BT, or 139gn Lapua Scenar. They are all usually easy to tune and most barrel internal configurations seem to like them. The old 139 is a wonderful bullet, and cheaper than the 136 'L'. With any of this quartet, seat them to jump 10 or 15 thou' as per personal preference - I always kick off with 15 with bullets like these and only rarely have to change afterwards.

 

Stick to H4350 initially if you change the bullet, then you can try the other powders once you find a bullet showing promise. The Creedmoor isn't a particularly fussy design so far as I've seen to date - a bit like 308 in that get a bullet that the barrel likes and a large number of powders give good results.

 

Hello Laurie,

 

Thanck you very much for you complet answer! :)

 

I want to apologize because I didn't clarify that I had chosen the LAPUA Scenar 136 gr L compared to the BERGER 140gr VLD  ...
 
In my Ruger Precision rifle I use a Magpull magazine PMAG with a COAL of 2.825 " and with the BERGER 140gr VLD I have big Jump (about .080'')...And the accuracy is very bad at 300 m. In this same day test I test the 136 gr LAPUA an I have a big surprise with a good accuracy whith RS60 40.5 gr  (H x L de 1.96'' x1.96'' at 300m) . I thinck it's a good accuracy for a Ruger factory Barrel....But  when I engrease the speed(for LR) whit RS60 I have some Flyers so I will test other powder...
 
For moment I have a good accuracy with my 136 gr + 44.5gr N160 (I don't know yet the speed)!
 
​But I will follow your informations to H4350 , I will  test at 100 m loads 41.3gr, 41.5gr, 41.7gr, 41.9gr (and 42.1 gr) with a Chronograph for know eatch speed.
 
I anderstand that the new technologie of this 136 gr LAPUA is the "similar" Hybrid BERGER with a secant profil  in the top of meplat and a tangent profil on the Bearing surface...The Ruger 6.5Ceedmoor chamber is made to use the factory ammo Hornady (A-MAX) so all tengeant profil bullets will work more right in my ruger than  VLD , but I realy think the 136 gr Lapua is a good compromise ;)​!
 
​Wait and See Laurie... :huh:
 
​A+
Laurent.
 
 
 
 
​I will


#12 BERGEON

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Posted 16 July 2016 - 10:23 AM

Here my futur test in 6.5 Creedmoor in my RPR :

 

dscn8613.jpg

 

With the magpul PMAG I have .026'' jump with lapua 139 gr and  a jump .051'' with lapua 136 gr.

 

Wait and See the speed at 100 m...

 

A+

Laurent.



#13 Andrew

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Posted 16 July 2016 - 01:11 PM

Are those moly coated bullets?~Andrew



#14 BERGEON

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Posted 16 July 2016 - 02:18 PM

Are those moly coated bullets?~Andrew

 

Yes Andrew! I molycoated myself  all my bullets with a Lyman Kit when LAPUA stop hie "Silver" bullets production​ :mad:!​



#15 Andrew

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Posted 16 July 2016 - 02:27 PM

I didn't think anyone still did that.~Andrew



#16 BERGEON

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Posted 27 July 2016 - 05:19 PM

The old 139 is a wonderful bullet, and cheaper than the 136 'L'. With any of this quartet, seat them to jump 10 or 15 thou' as per personal preference - I always kick off with 15 with bullets like these and only rarely have to change afterwards.

 

Laurie I test last week the LAPUA 139 gr in my Ruger Precision RIfle(24'' 5R Barrel) and I have a very goods results at 100 m !

 

412.jpg

For the load of 43.5 gr N160 I have 35 fps ES and 14.8 fps for the SD with a 1/3 MOA accuracy!

1-2668

2-2690

3-2703

4-2703

5-2703

 

For the load of 44 gr N160 I have 9.7 fps ES and 3.9 fps for the SD but 1/2 MOA accuracy...

1-2732

2-2729

3-2725

4-2725

5-2722

 

The N160 give a very hight load density so I have a very good regular Speed with this slow burn powder!

 

I was surprised this N160 isn't use more in 6.5CM in usa???

 

Thank you very much Laurie for the information to the old 139 gr wonderfull bullet!

 

​A+

Laurent



#17 Andrew

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Posted 27 July 2016 - 05:33 PM

Laurie I test last week the LAPUA 139 gr in my Ruger Precision RIfle(24'' 5R Barrel) and I have a very goods results at 100 m !

 

412.jpg

For the load of 43.5 gr N160 I have 35 fps ES and 14.8 fps for the SD with a 1/3 MOA accuracy!

1-2668

2-2690

3-2703

4-2703

5-2703

 

For the load of 44 gr N160 I have 9.7 fps ES and 3.9 fps for the SD but 1/2 MOA accuracy...

1-2732

2-2729

3-2725

4-2725

5-2722

 

The N160 give a very hight load density so I have a very good regular Speed with this slow burn powder!

 

I was surprised this N160 isn't use more in 6.5CM in usa???

 

Thank you very much Laurie for the information to the old 139 gr wonderfull bullet!

 

​A+

Laurent

It's not overly common in a lot of US shops and very expensive when you do find it. H4350 is common and works for most of the more common bullets  like Sierra and Hornady.~Andrew



#18 BERGEON

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Posted 16 August 2016 - 09:24 AM

It's not overly common in a lot of US shops and very expensive when you do find it. H4350 is common and works for most of the more common bullets  like Sierra and Hornady.~Andrew

Hello Andrew, I was surprised, it's dificult to buy Vihtavuori Powder in USA !!! (John Whidden use this powder whith big satisfaction!)

 

Last week i test in my RRP Those four powder :

 

1_copi10.jpg

 

With a big surprise, the N160 work more well than the H4350 !!!

 

prysen13.jpg

 

Perhaps it's my "Magic Load" in my RPR...

 

Pleasure to read you soon.

 

A+

Laurent.



#19 Laurie

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Posted 16 August 2016 - 10:04 AM

Viht N160 is just that bit slow burning and bulky for the 260 Rem and 6.5mm Creedmoor, so it restricts potential MVs compared to H4350, Reload Swiss RS62, RS60/Re17, Viht N550, IMR-4451 etc, etc. (That's probably why it's barely listed for 260 in the eight or nine US handloading manuals I own.) It's long been a very popular choice in 260 Rem though with 140s with British tactical shooters and provided you don't need top velocities, can be difficult to better. With the 260 and Creedmoor being very similar in their internal ballistics, what works in the 260 usually works equally well in the Creedmoor too.

 

I reckon a lot of the N160 loads people use likely run at 50,000-53,000 psi and with 140gn 6.5mm bullets' ballistics capabilities they still make superb 600 yard performers and remain good enough to shoot well at 1,000 or more with 26-inch barrel MVs around 2,700 fps.

 

At these sorts of pressures and with a relatively cool burning single-based powder, these two 6.5s' brass and barrel life will be excellent, a big plus for many rapid fire / high round count competition users. With less recoil / rifle disturbance than 308 Win and better mid/long-range ballistics, they're superior in every respect to it except for barrel life, but that gap can be narrowed a bit with N160.

 

If people must go for ultimate performance in MV terms, Reload Swiss RS60 (Alliant Re17), N550/560, Ramshot Hunter etc will give another 100-150 fps to 140s in this pair, but to be honest, I wince whenever I see people on forums recommending them as the first powders to try.



#20 BERGEON

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Posted 16 August 2016 - 01:45 PM

Laurie, thanks for your explanatory reply on the N160! :)
 
I actually checked in my RPR in 6.5 Creedmoor that the use of double basse sacrificed accuracy at the speed!
 
I prefer shooting accuracy (not PRS) so I'll confine me to the use of the N 160 and RS62 has a good potential for accuracy in my barrel  24 '' 5R. ;)
 
​I like your last  part 2, 6.5 MM CARTRIDGES   http://www.targetshooter.co.uk/?cat=58
 
A+
Laurent.





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