Shotgun for the Mrs and boys ?

[LONG RANGE CAPT]

I'm after people's recommendations on 12 or 20 bore new youth shotgun.

 

Something hat they can all use and enjoy for many years to come.

 

 

Kind regards

 

Rob

[gbal]

Rob,

everyone is different of course.The 20 guage is a contender,but there is such a choice now in cartridges-24 g 12s do most target things as well,or better than 20s.

My daughter was 14,size 8 ,about 45k/100lb- so I bought a lightish 20 O/U. She did not like it,but took to my 12 g Beretta O/U 682 sporter -81/2lb,but a good fit-surprisingly-and won about everything in the club (28g loads).

It's really 'try a few and see'- fit is really the critical issue-though start with very light loads. Semis will reduce recoil-she tried a couple,but recoil was never the issue,and she much prefered the O/U 12g.

The right shotgun usually just feels better,especially 'live' rather than just 'in the shop'

Good family shooting (it was a pleasure to get beaten,especially,if not usually, by a couple of clays only). :-)

 

gbal

[srvet]

I agree entirely and have learnt the hard way by buying shotguns that on paper should have been perfect but in reality just made life harder. A shotgun is definitely something that they need to try out before committing

[andybrock]

I'm after people's recommendations on 12 or 20 bore new youth shotgun.

Something hat they can all use and enjoy for many years to come.

Kind regards

Rob

Most of the clay grounds with a shop offer "try before you buy" on shotguns, probably worth spending sometime at one?

[jcampbellsmith]

Fit is critical, both now and as the boys grow. Regards JCS

[Cumbrian 1]

You don't say how tall your boys are but I would get a 12 bore but use 24 gram loads through light chokes (much easier to hit things), possibly shorten the stock and you will probably need to heighten the comb, certainly for your wife and possibly your boys, if the comb is low they will never hit anything, a shotgun that shoots slightly high is often an aid especially in game shooting.

 

When I was a young chap we use to stick the rubber comb raisers on that come in a variety of sizes on with electricians tape as the fit changes as you get older. My current shotgun I had fitted nearly 10 years ago and I have just ordered a pair of new guns but I still went for a lesson with a chap to check the fit and it has changed I need more cast off, we have taped bits on, placed 20 pences behind the recoil pad to alter the angle of the toe etc, but it is now spot on and can be altered by a smith and the new guns can be built using the same measurements.

 

I am due to collect the gun next week and I have a lesson immediately afterwards to double check.

[Cumbrian 1]

IMHO don't be tempted by the smaller bores as they are difficult to master, 12 is easier and as you go down through the smaller bores the greater the skill required. The 12 with open chokes and light loads will give quicker results which will inspire more confidence.

[AnthonyR]

I think it entirely depends on the age of the kids, a 12 would have been far too big for my son when he first learnt to shoot at age 11, he started with a 28 and then moved to a 20 and now shoots with a 12.

 

A small kid cannot cope with a 12 bore, it's not just about the recoil they simply can't handle the weight and size of them.

[Cumbrian 1]

I think it entirely depends on the age of the kids, a 12 would have been far too big for my son when he first learnt to shoot at age 11, he started with a 28 and then moved to a 20 and now shoots with a 12.

 

A small kid cannot cope with a 12 bore, it's not just about the recoil they simply can't handle the weight and size of them.

Each to their own but I don't think a short barrelled (26") o/u would make that much of a difference weight wise, however the 24 gram loads have no perceivable recoil.

[MAB1954]

I would go with a 12 gauge if at all possible however like someone said above a 12 gauge may just be to heavy for them. This is just my view but an o/u is generally heavier than a side x side gauge for gauge, now it was not a problem for me I taught my boys to shoot with a side x side [i prefer them cannot get on with o/u].

So I got a cheap side by side, light game say just over 6lbs and started them on hand loaded 21 gram cartridges then moved to 24 gram that covers the clays. For game/vermin a 30 gram hand load covers most bases.

Just my view hope it helps.

[Machinexl]

Id recommend a 20b auto!

 

I bought a Hatsan escort youth 20b just over a year ago for the mrs to use. However she wasnt at all interested in coming clay shooting until today!

 

I chose the Hatsan as autos tend to have less felt recoil and also the Hatsan escort has a huge rubber butt pad. She is very tiny, 5'2 and very petite so overall size and weight of the gun was a consideration.

 

I took her to Lains nr Andover for her first experience of shooting. I took a Betinsolli 20b o/u and the Hatsan.

 

She shot the o/u first and got in quite well but after using the auto for a bit she much prefered it. She said that the recoil was less with the auto and overall the gun felt a bit lighter and easier to manoeuvre.

 

Im pleased to say that she actually shot really well. She hit 10 out of 12 on the very first stand!!

[rhhudson]

I would go with 12bore,,, my mrs used to shoot mine using fiocchi 21g cartridge no recoil at all and you will have lots of gun choice.

[terryh]

Rob,

 

I shoot 12 & 20, if I was starting my wife and middle boy I'd use the 20 with light loads, the recoil can be sorted (if necessary small sobathane pad that fits the bra strap or adjustable butt pad of same material), but the weight of a 12 I know will tire her as she would be starting with the gun up in the first place.

 

IMHO fit makes a lot of difference so an adjustable sorbathan pad helps get things in the right place until your boy or wife's got the hang of things, then think about having the stock bent etc.

 

T

[Binnzy]

Hi

 

I would recommend a 20 gauge semi.

 

I recently bought an Armsan A620 semi-auto (20 gauge) for my wife to shoot sporting clays. Cycles all loads at 24gm and above and has very little recoil, and hasn't had a single misfeed or jam in over 1500 cartridges (even my M2 Benelli has a misfunction once every blue moon! not the A620 though) . My wife is very recoil sensitive after reconstructive shoulder surgery, and otherwise shoots a Browning 525 with 21gm loads. She is more than happy to shoot 24gm in this.

 

The real advantage is that the shotgun is exceptionally light I bought the standard version; however, it can also be purchased in a youth combo outfit with 2 stocks (youth and standard) and a shim fitting kit for around £400...and after I broke my wrist 2 months back, this was the shotgun I reached for first to allow me to get back to shooting. Load up the 24gm Hulls with a 1/2 choke and it can easily take anything within a sporting layout.

 

Downsides - 20 gauge cartridges are a little more expensive, and it's a gas gun so it does need a clean now and then.

 

I hesitated in buying a relatively cheap Turkish Armsan semi, I wouldn't hesitate to buy another; it will put a smile on your face.

 

Gunmart review here:

 

http://www.gunmart.net/gun_review/armsan_a620

 

...and no, I have no affiliation to either Armsan or the importer.

[beretta]

20 every time for wife and kids what's the point in trying with a 12 big heavy and if not in the shoulder right will kick like hell And put the person in charge of it straight of and scared to pull the trigger I only shot a 20 these days and had a go of a mates 12 the other day and handed it straight back I shoot 21 gram on clays kicks like an air rifle lol a real joy to shot , also spend that little extra and but a good gun than a cheap one the balance and weight will make a massive difference

[The_Dogge]

I like the look of the Armsan youth combo, but I find that a 20g kicks harder then expected, probably because the guns are so light. You can't get cartridges lighter than 21g for them, and 21g loads are also available in 12 bore with similar recoil.

 

The only issue I see is that getting 21g carts to cycle a 12g semi auto may be problematic, but the one time I tried they wouldn't cycle the 20g auto I was trying either. I see no point shooting 24g in a 20 gauge as I can do that with my 12 with the same result for less money.

 

You can't beat 12g for the sheer choice, versatility, or price, of cartridges. I'm thinking the right 12 would be just as good a starter gun as a 20.

[brave Echo niner]

I have a 20 bore, it is a Beretta silver pigeon and i love it, there is very few things in the UK i wouldn't shoot with it! the advantage of a 20 bore is that it's lighter, they are also great for walked up partridges! I took my 20 bore on a partridge day and got teased at the start of the day for having a 20 bore, at the end of the day i'd shot 50% of the total bag, there was 20 people there, its not so much the calibre as how well it suits the shooter! I have shot all calibres from 410 to 12 and started at the age of 6 with a single shot 410, anything to light their passion is good!

Ben

[Chanonry]

Lots of opinions. I would separate the solution into two elements - gun dynamics and cartridge load. Only you can work out the solution that works for you.

 

As for 'good for years to come', that really implies either a compromise now or later which isn't really feasible. If it don't fit it is either going to shoot somewhere other than you look or it is going to bash the face. Better to think of something that will work well now and will retain its value for a trade to something that fits the new body. Better to buy a secondhand Beretta, Browning or Miroku as they don't really depreciate much after the initial hit. Cheaper models are seen as that and tend to be less popular so lose more money. Guntrader etc are your friends.

 

Everyone goes on about fit, but thats a bit like saying the gun needs a barrel. More important is a gun with dynamics that suits the shooters build. So a slight shooter may find a 12ga too big and heavy to move in a comfortable controlled manner over a shooting session so a 20 may be more appropraite. Equally a giant of a guy will struggle with a 20ga unless he has good skills. Buy something that suits the individuals build and they will have more success. You can see that principal working even with the very best guys. There is enough lead in the air from either of them to start with. Once adulthood arrives the 12 ga is undoubtedly superior as it can throw a heavier load with lower recoil and usually matches the body dynamics better. There is a good reason no-one shoots 20 ga in competition. On the other hand, If you are going to walk all day and fire 6 shots then 20ga is a dream !

 

Rather than going the auto route (see points above) I would look at very light loads i.e 21gr in 12 ga, not sure the equivalent in 20. Don't bother with subsonics that is more about the ground than the shooter. I have broken some long targets very convincingly with 21gr in sensible chokes. Easy to shoot with no recoil. The other benefit is the cost. 24g is also an option but not really much difference other than you can get top quality shells as a result of the olympic disciplines. Cost to match though !

[TattooedGun]

As has been mentioned, the problem is not always down to recoil.

I recently got my partner into shooting rifles, one time we went shotgun shooting and she tried on the 'have a go' stand. They made her use a 12g because "a 24g cartridge gives less kick than a 20g" blah blah blah, and my partner ended up hating it. She hasn't been back shotgun shooting.

I actually had the 20g I learnt to shoot on with me and they refused to let her shoot with it, even though it would have fit her better as she's a lot smaller, and it was bought for me when I was 9 years old.

I had both the 12 and 20 out the other day whilst moving them from one house to another, and she held my Beretta Extrema 2 (with Kick-off) up in the living room, and again mentioned how it was too big. Even though it is a pleasure to shoot for me, low recoil and well balanced, she is only small and it's too big and un-weildy for her to manage.

 

I guess the point I'm trying to make is fit, is much more important than the recoil. you can get lower charges in either. get which fits and points best for them, and work from there.