treetop Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 Don't apologize, Very interesting reading your experience.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Miller Posted March 26, 2016 Report Share Posted March 26, 2016 Precisely, your experience and input is always valued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tremo Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Hi Treetop. You already have a tween die in your seating die.image.jpeg From l-r new factory brass o/s neck measures .235, run through seater die .213 run through f/l sizer .190 Hope this helps.. I'll give this a go Squirrel. Not that I need brass at the moment, but at least I will know if it can be done with my Redding dies. Fingers crossed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treetop Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 If you have a Redding die, it will work ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigkev1 Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Treetop did you get a tween die fabricated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treetop Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 No, I've been tied up with work , so haven't been over to his place yet ( when there open ) to sort anything out Sorry ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Miller Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 I've been using the Redding form and trim die (once I worked out you had to slightly neck the cases down beforehand!) #83279 to great effect. Run the case into the Redding seating die, guts removed, to get about 4mm of neck reduced, then run through the form and trim die. I have then run them through the FL die but I'm not sure that step is actually necessary. Trimmed to 1.355", pockets uniformed, holes deburred, necks chamfered and brushed, topped with a 20gn VMax seated to 1.450" CBTO. Initially I started with 10gn of N120 which gave 3200fps but I had two shoulders split. I reduced the load to the suggested start point for N120, 9.8gn (for 3000fps) and added 1 sec to the annealing time. So far, out of the next 40 cases, none have split at the shoulder and they have pretty much completely formed. I think a second firing would finish the job but they look 95% there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Miller Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treetop Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 1.450 CBTO , What's that at O.A.L. ? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tremo Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 I've been using the Redding form and trim die (once I worked out you had to slightly neck the cases down beforehand!) #83279 to great effect. Run the case into the Redding seating die, guts removed, to get about 4mm of neck reduced, then run through the form and trim die. I have then run them through the FL die but I'm not sure that step is actually necessary. Trimmed to 1.355", pockets uniformed, holes deburred, necks chamfered and brushed, topped with a 20gn VMax seated to 1.450" CBTO. Initially I started with 10gn of N120 which gave 3200fps but I had two shoulders split. I reduced the load to the suggested start point for N120, 9.8gn (for 3000fps) and added 1 sec to the annealing time. So far, out of the next 40 cases, none have split at the shoulder and they have pretty much completely formed. I think a second firing would finish the job but they look 95% there. Good stuff Mick. . My .22 Hornet brass is in the post. I'll let you know how I get on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 You MUST anneal the brass before use, if you dont your cases will only do 3 or 4 rounds each. Neck splits are the issue, I am up to about 10 loads per case with no splits on that Remmy brass but it will all be binned once I have the new RWS brass up to speed as dealing with primers backing out are a problem when reloading. A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Miller Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 1.450 CBTO , What's that at O.A.L. ? Cheers 1.773 C.O.L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treetop Posted April 2, 2016 Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 Cheers ... I had some lilgun at 1.775, which were fast and grouped well, but robe honest the thought of a miss load scared me..as the pressures were high, I'm going so group testing at the mo ( when I get out in day light ) with different lengths ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Miller Posted April 2, 2016 Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 This is a fireform load. Not sure what my final seating depth will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tremo Posted April 4, 2016 Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 .22 Hornet brass arrived today and I gave it a whirl with my Redding dies. No success at all I'm afraid. Every case crushed no matter what I tried. Put me down for one of the 'Tween dies Treetop! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYlBu4v9yYs Tremo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treetop Posted April 4, 2016 Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 Did you take the seating probe out of the seating die ? Try backing it off a little ... It only has to start the neck off, before you put it into the FL die Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Miller Posted April 4, 2016 Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 Redding seating die should work, it's what I use. Remove the seating bit out of the middle completely. Lube case with Imperial wax or similar, slowly run the case into the die, start by running it in slowly until you feel it start to resist then back out and examine. Repeat a little bit a a time until you get the feel for it. Make sure your dies have been thoroughly cleaned to remove the factory rust preventive first. Don't lose faith. I crushed 40 cases before I got it sorted, going slow is the way to go. Next batch of 120 I crushed 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tremo Posted April 4, 2016 Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 Cheers for the encouragement chaps. Yes I have removed the stem from the seating die. The first one was with the die fully in. The second I wound the die out until it just touched the case and then wound it in 1/4 of a turn prior to each pull of the handle. It started to work but then crushed. The third I did the same but took it to the FL die before it crushed in the seater. It crushed in the FL die. I have notice that the .22 cases are considerably longer than the .17 cases. I appreciate that some of this brass is used when the neck is formed, but it still seems quite a bit. Did you trim you .22 brass before trying the resizing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treetop Posted April 4, 2016 Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 I think the process is :- Neck down Full length die Trim to 1.3550 Anneal Fireform Trim to final 1.340 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tremo Posted April 4, 2016 Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 Nah, it ain't having it. I tried a few more, but to no avail. Every case is getting compressed. I can get maybe 1-2mm of neck, but that's about it. No matter what I do after this or what die I use it is "accordion time". Order me one of those 'tween dies please Treetop. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted April 4, 2016 Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 Are you trying to form 22 Hornet brass down to 17 Hornady Hornet ?. I suspect so. The shoulder to rim length on the 17HH case is noticably shorter than the 22 Hornet or my 17AH. So as well as reducing the neck diameter you are also trying to push the shoulder back significantly if I am reading the thread correctly. I cant see where a seater die comes into this, but maybe I have got hold of the wrong end of the stick so to speak. I just anneal, use a form die on the neck, anneal again, load, shoot but that is an AH not a HH. I dont know how to achieve what I think you want as I dont run a 17HH, I would go looking at Saubier whose members have a lot of experience with this case, I would be pretty sure it can be done, reliably and without to many case losses. Try what the other folks here suggest first though as several seem to have done it ok. A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Miller Posted April 4, 2016 Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 The seating die just necks the case down to. 20ish, it should be just enough to get the neck reduced in size. However, once I have that stage completed I use the Redding form & trim die #83279 to size the case down to 17 completely. Then I run through the Redding FL die, although I'm not sure this is necessary. My routine is: Neck down to .20 using seating die Size using form & trim FL size Trim to 1.355" Uniform primer pocket Deburr flash hole Anneal Prime & load Fire form Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom D Posted July 3, 2016 Report Share Posted July 3, 2016 Hello, nice forum! I have a .20 VarTarg, if you're considering a new gun I'd seriously consider one over the .17's. Although .20 is only slightly bigger than .17 in percentage terms the difference is huge. This makes a difference in real world performance. It's the same difference between a .22 and a 6.5mm. The VarTarg will push a 40gn pill at between 3300 and 3500 fps, these will take foxes out as far as you like, they hollow out crows like ice cream cones well past 300 yds, and they aren't affected by wind anything like the 17's. Mine is super accurate with the 39 gn SBK from just 18.9gns of N130. One other thing worth mentioning if you build one of these is to think about twist rate, bullets in .20 range from 20gn up to 50gn so again the percentage difference is huge, like a 100gn in .308 going up to a 250gn. You'll never get an optimum twist rate for such a huge variation in weights so decide before you build. Mine is a 1:10 and loves the 39-40gn bullets, a guy I know on another forum has a 1:12 twist and his likes the 32gn size. I have some 20gn Barnes grenades but they don't shoot anywhere near as well as the 39's. If you have a ballistics app look at the 39gn SBK at around the 3500fps mark and be impressed..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted July 3, 2016 Report Share Posted July 3, 2016 Hello, nice forum! I have a .20 VarTarg, if you're considering a new gun I'd seriously consider one over the .17's. Although .20 is only slightly bigger than .17 in percentage terms the difference is huge. This makes a difference in real world performance. It's the same difference between a .22 and a 6.5mm. The VarTarg will push a 40gn pill at between 3300 and 3500 fps, these will take foxes out as far as you like, they hollow out crows like ice cream cones well past 300 yds, and they aren't affected by wind anything like the 17's. Mine is super accurate with the 39 gn SBK from just 18.9gns of N130. One other thing worth mentioning if you build one of these is to think about twist rate, bullets in .20 range from 20gn up to 50gn so again the percentage difference is huge, like a 100gn in .308 going up to a 250gn. You'll never get an optimum twist rate for such a huge variation in weights so decide before you build. Mine is a 1:10 and loves the 39-40gn bullets, a guy I know on another forum has a 1:12 twist and his likes the 32gn size. I have some 20gn Barnes grenades but they don't shoot anywhere near as well as the 39's. If you have a ballistics app look at the 39gn SBK at around the 3500fps mark and be impressed..... Now that is the one caliber that I feel an itch for especially in a lightweight carry rifle. suspect it would like 30-32 gr bullets better but the 39gr SBK is a superb bullet as you have found. Down loaded to 3500 or a shade over in my 20BR foxes at 300 yards are no problem, even front on ones. A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom D Posted July 3, 2016 Report Share Posted July 3, 2016 Go for a 12 twist for the 32's mines a 10 and likes the 39's maybe an 11 twist would be the best compromise.... I think the 39 shoots flatter than the 32 at longer ranges anyway due to its much better BC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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