David Hancock Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 I'm really liking the look of this rifle so, questions:- RIFLE - Who has one and what thoughts - What else should I consider for the money ? (Savage 110 BA) More to the point is it worth the money or should I invest in an AI ?? - Who is stocking them ? CALIBRE - 6.5 Creedmoor - a suitably effective calibre for fox, deer and boar ? - 6.5 CM factory Hornady - any good ? I'm not a reloader at the moment I note in the US, there is a lot of pimping going on with this rifle which belies the $1100 price point IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradders Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 I'm really liking the look of this rifle so, questions:- RIFLE - Who has one and what thoughts Couple of people I know, very happy....as is the person I sold the .308 to - What else should I consider for the money ? (Savage 110 BA) Nope More to the point is it worth the money or should I invest in an AI ?? Worth every penny - Who is stocking them ? Hard to get, I have several on order but no timescale CALIBRE - 6.5 Creedmoor - a suitably effective calibre for fox, deer and boar ? Yes, yes, possibly - 6.5 CM factory Hornady - any good ? I'm not a reloader at the moment Apparently so I note in the US, there is a lot of pimping going on with this rifle which belies the $1100 price point IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 I was out with a buddy an hour ago shooting his RPR in 6.5 CM. He was zeroing his new Vortex Razor Gen II using factory ammo and was shooting sub MOA at 200 yards from a bipod set on a bench. (Too much snow to go prone.) His handloads will repeatedly shoot under quarter MOA at 200 using Sierra 140 Match Kings. I've seen it too many times to think it any kind of a fluke. Prices here are around $1000 but the rifle shoots well enough to drop $2350 on it for a piece of glass set into $225 rings.~Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swarovski1 Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 It shoots half inch groups at 200yds, thats good going, ive seen the youtube videos where they pimp it up, its not really a ruger pr after lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 While it's really too early to judge,the Ruger holds promise-seen as a £1400 practical style rifle,which works from the box. An AI is really a different proposition,and has a price to match-whether it would shoot 'better' significantly may well vary with calibre-and just what you expect from the rifle(AI does not define precision either). A few owners have posted well sub moa 'groups' (3 shots)- the sample is small,and of course we have little idea of how representative such groups are-typical/best that day etc-either of that rifle or in general. The dozen or so release rifles shot by US gunwriters would be production examples,but possibly selected....just under a moa at 100y was about it...ditto on PRS blog test.These are mostly all in 6.5x47 Lapua-likely to be the most accurate cartridge. This is quite decent performance,but hardly great....I am not sure I'd be overly impressed with a sample of Sakos/Tikkas which performed like this-but what is 'out of the factory box' average these days? (and is that 'good enough'... going from .5 to.2 moa ups hit % at 750 yards fig 11s by only 5% approx....for a good shooter.) But remember the design-it is set to appeal to 'practical' shooters,who like eg vertical hand grips,black metal ,and will not be put off with the option of pimping up with AR style add ons,for a non traditonal look. One extended test in US found the folding stock was liable to wear loose,but that's just one so far....Function seems fine,there is no need to pimp-the rifle shoots fine (as above). Good value,if you can get one,and like the ergonomics (or style/looks ). Hornady Creedmore ammo is likely to be suited to the rifle's performance,for non reloaders(in 308 of course,and even 243,there will be the standard wide choice of factory ammo.) Replacement barrels will almost certainly become available,given the relatively easy replacement;they may squeeze a bit more precision from the rig.There are no replacement triggers currently,though that may well change. The 6.5 is rather overpowered for fox (223 is generally fine,with about 1000ft lb at 100y,the 6.5 retains about twice that),but will be effective,as it will on almost all UK deer-with the caveat that it is a bit more powerful than the minimal 243 at 200y,but hardly ideal for really big stags. It is not suitable for wild boar: allowing that these come in different sizes,reasonable guidance ball parks are that for small ones (125lb)the 6.5s are just about OK,but for medium (200lb) the 270w marks the lower point,with 308 a bit bettter; big old boars (200-extreme 400lb) need 3006 and way on up. Boar are usually driven,so adrenalin charged,and have tough hides....a large calibre and heavy bullet is indicated,with sufficient energy and sheer knock down power-think 7mm,160g,2800ft lb minima (and construction-Nosler partition,win silver tip are examples of factory stuff) (and yes,I know deer have been brought down with Hornet etc- but the 6.5s are underpowered for most boar,just as I would not care to attempt an elephant with a 6.5 mannlicher-though it has been done-if not recently!) OK,the Ruger seems very good value,shoots decently by almost all limited accounts-some will be pretty good-and fills a niche for this style of rifle at a very reasonable price.It can be upgraded,at least ergonomically and /or 'pimped' but does not really need much from the box. Probably few would swop their AI though,and seekers of real precision may well look elsewhere. It's adequate,at least,for intended purpose-it's not at the cutting edge of precision performance,but neither is the price. A welcome choice,for many. Outshoot a krieger custom rebarrelled sako (or similar) costing a fair bit less? ....probably not. They are just different. gbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hancock Posted January 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Thank you Gbal. Excellent feedback as ever - appreciated. PS 'I'm loving the new SHV Nightforces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 I don't pimp for Ruger. I just like to shoot. I have shot three of the 308's (including my own) and one of the 6.5's and have seen no fault in them other than ergonomics: I could not tolerate the Ruger RPR stock and installed the MagPul PRS in it's place. Feels better and makes the balance seem better when shooting off hand. My 308 is the most accurate 308 I have ever encountered. BTW. Who the heck offers a three shot group from an RPR as a proof of accuracy? Nobody I shoot with. They'd get laughed out of the room.~Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 Andrew,I was being factual ,and a little polite,in mentioning three shot 'groups'-that's why 'groups' is in quotes-but a casual look through 'groups' here will show 3 shots is the modal presentation. I agree that tells us rather little-more perhaps that the shooter lacks the confidence to push his probability luck any further,or is rather miserly,or simply does not understand probability,or all three. 5x5 shot groups are a much better indicator,assuming of course these are not selected from a much larger number of poorer groups! No wonder " Bench Rest" seems too 'esoteric' for many....it tends to reveal the truth rather better...and confirms -or not-the hints that 3 shots can give... two shot groups anyone?.......now,why not? :-) Probability,probably! Hunting first shot consistency is different,and as I also said,consider what is 'good enough'-especially in the light of a WEZ analysis-with 2moa size targets and 700 + range, moa decimals are lost in the raft of other more important bullet dispersers;almost all being outwith the rifle's precision. gbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 I caught the emphasis on "groups", it just seems silly. Like showing a photo of you girl friend's knee as evidence of her beauty. I don't mind three shot groups from hunting rifles but, I want to see repetitive performance. Show me ten three shot groups fired with the same load. I see people showing four shot groups sometimes and can't get my head around it. Like you, i believe people lack confidence to finish shooting. I also have a problem with people who casually discount an out lying round as "a flyer" and report the groups size as that of the remaining rounds. I am big on consistency. Which is why my friends 6.5 RPR impressed me so much. I watched him shoot a 1/4" group at 200, prone. I whistled and told him to get a lottery ticket while lady luck was with him. Then he fired a half inch. Then another around .3 inches, then another half inch, then he finished with one that was .204: c-t-c. My friend is an extremely gifted and well practiced rifleman with good equipment but there is no denying the accuracy of the weapon. This man has at least 100 long guns from 17 to 50BMG and he has stated that none of them will shoot like the 6.5 RPR. FWIW, this fellow dropped the use of the A-MAX and uses the 140 and 142 grain Sierra Match king over H4350.~Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 Andrew,we can extend our shared preferences for consistency,within a rifle for sure,but also when buying,between rifles. But let me say I'd buy your friends rifle,even at UK prices-tha kind of performance woud make many expensive Bench Rest rifles look rather ordinary. Of course,accuarcy has a big shooter input,but no matter how good the shoter,he/she cannot improve on the rifle's intrinsic precision.A less good shooter might shoot only mediocre groups with the same rifle,of course. OK consistency revisited: in the context of reviewing a rifle model to inform about possible purchase,then the performance of a fair number of the rifles is needed (your friend's rifle is not going to be for sale-or only to one buyer).Your friend's one,to date,is exceptional. I'd expect anyone buying another Ruger expecting duplicate performance would be rather disappointed,on the basis of the limited reports in to date. In a nutshell,the good one is gone,most of the rest are less impressive-though perhaps adequate-and buyers should be realistic.... (but how much does he want for it :-) g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 I don't think it's for sale... And don't get me wrong: I'm not saying that all the RPR's will shoot like this. I am just saying that this RPR shoots very well. I am not the rifleman my friend is so i cannot tout my 308 RPR with the same gusto. I am a hunter and an off hand shooter who until 2 years ago had seldom shot off of a bipod, but when I can get 8 of 10 rounds cutting each other in a 1" hole at 200 yards, prone, off an Atlas bipod with no rear bag, I can't help but be pleased with my RPR as well. The first time I shot it at 1000 yards I shot a 10" group in a 8 mph cross wind. Until then, my longest shooting was done at 815 yards. I was ecstatic .... but my friend, who routinely shoots out to 1600 yards, shot under 5 inches with his 6.5 CM. As you indicated, much has to do with the shooter. A good rifleman can make a mediocre rifle look acceptable, and can make an exceptional rifle priceless.~Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisF Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 Two things , donot pimp it , defeats the purpose of a cheap rifle , second , it makes alot of sense in the USA , due to price point , in other countries its not as cheap , and as such is not as good a deal , me , outside the USA , I would save a bit more , 1.5-2x more and buy a AI AT & be DONE . Thats my 2 cents , in NZ the price started at 2.3k , & now is 3k NZD . Donot get me wrong at the USA price , nothing comes close , But outside the US , it is not such a good deal . Later Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 If I'm reading the exchange rate correctly, they started at what guys were initally scalping the RPR's for here: About $1500 US. I don't have a clue as to what the going price is on the RPR but I do know that one of the largest retailers in my area must figure the "rush" is over because they are allowing their employees to order them now, set into the waiting list among the customers. I would love an AI but the Ruger was the right 'genre' of rifle at a price I could afford -and at that, it took me three months to pay it off. Saving 3-4X that much for an AI would be a noble ambition but one that would be hard to fulfill for me. I was blessed to have an AI shooting friend who had no use for his 3-10X Leupold MkIV MOA rifle scope so he has given it to me on an 'indefinite loan', so to speak. I am happy to have it as anything I could afford would fall far short of that optic. I think that for guys like me, in my income bracket, the Ruger is an invitation to play around at long range without feeling the need to compete. Somehow having an AI to bang empty propane cylinders hanging from bailing twine at 500 - 700 yards on our plinking range would seem a waste.-Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 Andrew,if only more of us would look at the numbers objectively...... WEZ analysis helps,though maybe surprises some (but maths don't know about bragging rights)**! Cartridge matters: 700 yards 10 inch target,.25 moa rifles,SD 10fps ammo,very good wind reading (to 2 mph accuracy over the distance): 308 175@2600 56% hits 6.5 CM 140 Hybrids@2830 80% hits How about moa in the 308 (same conditions,but moa precision changed): 308 rifle with .3 moa compared to 308 rifle with .8 moa .....improvement is (only) 5% more hits. Accuracy-local,national,international-derives elsewhere. gbal ** or pleasure of ownership and suchlike :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 The cartridge does matter. I was rebuked for ordering a 308 instead of a CM but I have thousands of 308 cases and bullets on hand already, and my long range aspirations don't stretch past the 1000 yards of our plinking range -and most of my shooting is 500 and less. It can be frustrating when I stretch the distance but i learn a lot -like paying close attention to the wind. I am lucky that I live at an altitude and humidity that allows reasonable success with the 168's I had stockpiled. (Half of which are the A-Max that Hornday now say 'melts' going down range, yet won't replace!) I will eventually switch to the 175 grain for general usage.I will give then all a workout in the Spring. I never fail to encourage people interested in this rifle to get a 6.5CM instead of 308 or 243. I ran into a young man who had a RPR in 308 due in about a week. When i asked why 308 his reasoning was much the same as my own; he had a stockpile of 308 components. Additionally, like myself, he has a fondness for the 308. At least RPRs are not hard to rebarrel. If I want a CM I can get one easily.~Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 Andrew,all agreed....I'd probably opt for the 243 fast twist Ruger barrel,because I have a probable lifetime of brass,dies and components....and replacing same with 6.5 CM would be some investment....though I suspect a premium 243 rebarrel on my Sako would make more sense,and cost far less than the Ruger,and perform better probably...and I like wood,and 'military' rifles for the military...mostly! Large capacity magazines must be reassuring to those who expect to miss frequently,or enjoy rebarreling ! Ditto modal distances-it don't matter much to 500y,and I'd go for less recoil-I note that the PR shooters,having gone 6.5,are moving often to the 6mm neckdowns like 6x47. I would not shoot a 308 on up without at least a brake,though over here suppressors do a more socially acceptable job-I don't want my hat recoiled off or muzzle blasted down range...maybe it's an age thing! ps can't see the A max's melting all year round in Montana! atb george Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 I actually had a shot at a 243 RPR before I got in the 308 but I passed. The only accuracy problems I'd heard reported with RPR's at the time were with the 243's. It was said that they wandered when you got them warm -something neither the 308s or 6.5 I have been around do. I do use a brake on my 308 but even before that, the recoil was low. Now it is literally non existent. I'd like a suppressor but my only option is to make one after filing the paperwork goes through I just can't justify spending $1400 + $200 fees on a suppressor when i shoot where no one hears me anyhow! SIG Arms is supposed to be offering a line of 'inexpensive' suppressors and I'll have a look at them before I commit the paperwork. Keep Shooting.~Andrew (Melting A-Max. I've still not got my head around that one... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grum87 Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 (Melting A-Max. I've still not got my head around that one... ) It's called 'marketing' I believe.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 It's called 'marketing' I believe.... True that. Just try telling the folks in Grand Island that you had invested $1000 on their long range A-Max target bullets that they now admit melt in flight, and you'd like them replaced with the ones that don't. "uh....No." (CLICK!) ~Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisF Posted February 7, 2016 Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 The AI AT , actually lowered the price for a good AI rifle , basically made the modernised AW cheaper !! , that and what Is said with the Ruger being priced a lot higher in countries outside the US , makes it less attractive than in the USA . Its a bit like a full bore bolt version of the Ruger 10/22 , yes you can spend a fortune , double , tremble the money pimping it out , just like the 100/22 , but it the same way , its always a 10/22 , and not a Volquartsen , but you have spent the same money as a Volq , same with pimping the RPR , after you spend 2-3x pimping it out , match barrel ect , close to AI AT price . But its not a AI , and I live in New Zealand , and I have no restraints in reguards to the number of rifles I own , so thats no concern to be at all , I find I would rather have fewer , better quality rifles than a ton of so so , as I find I can only shoot one rifle at a time . I have used a lot of different makers , from factory to custom , from Rem , Sako , Parker Hale , Steyr , Surgeon , Badger , PGW , AI etc , and none have been anywhere near an AI rifle , thats the sad truth of the matter , even the Russians use some AI AWs , & the USA , Delta use to use the AI AWM in 300WM , I find AIs worse more addictive than drugs , thats how good they are , I use to for years down play AI on cost alone , and use Sako TRGs etc , finally brought my 1st AI , and as soon as I actually got it and used it , ordered 3 more , even at the high price , and people that have not used one or owned one , are not really able to base their comments in terms of actual use . The single worse thing I have ever done is put off buying a AI rifle for a stupid 10yrs , a waste of 10yrs that I will not ever be able to get back . And if you look at the money we waste on cars / boats & houses , buy your self a AI , and its the best their is bar none , no excuses , we maynot be all able to afford a Merc/Porsche etc , but we can all afford the rifle version of Merc/Porsche etc . Just my take after wasting a crap of money on lesser crap , same could be said of top grade optics , like S&B PMII , took me a while to buy my 1st , should have been sooner . Later Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisF Posted February 7, 2016 Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 Opps , to be clear , I own a expensive rifle/opitcs , and a cheap car , just to be clear on my choices , the 1st and last time I ever brought a brand new car was 32 yrs ago , a mistake I have not made since , made a lot of others thou . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1971silversurfer Posted February 7, 2016 Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 It will be interesting to see if the new Weatherby Vanguard will be easier to get hold of than the RPR although limited calibres on introduction similar price too. http://www.gundigest.com/tactical-gear/tactical-guns/weatherby-introduces-vanguard-modular-chassis-rifle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 I'd like to see one in the flesh. I think Ruger started something, eh?~Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tisme Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 I saw one in Chris Potter Tunbridge Wells Saturday. It was the 6.5 creedmore ,they have it up for sale for £1300 that's a lot of rifle for the money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 I saw one in Chris Potter Tunbridge Wells Saturday. It was the 6.5 creedmore ,they have it up for sale for £1300 that's a lot of rifle for the money You saw the Ruger in 6.5 right? I thought the Howa was only in .223 and 308.~Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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