Building an ultra-long range SGC-legal 12bore fox load.

[gbal]

MAB sterling work- it's seems a workable 55 ish load is possible (if the energy transfer is there but not much further yet with any reliability.

 

But an effective buffer system seems the way to go,as you say.

I hope you get the chance to continue this research,and report back.

(and the eyes hold out-you could get younger research assistant- an old academics dodge from the spade work :-)

Its the only way to answer the original question (buffer/research I mean,not the younger assistant!)

 

gbal

[Furyan]

I wish AO was cheep last tub i bought was £39 for half kg , we are working a similar load but with Tecna N , The AO load is one of the best mag loads i have ever used for long range geese.I have used that load for 25 plus years, on various game.

[MAB1954]

Here is a short update on progress at 75 yards. Test gun is a Mossberg 500 12 gauge with 24 inch multi choke barrel, standard full choke used for test. Test load was in a 3 inch case 11/2oz of size A lead [0.180 inch] with buffer.

 

At 75 yards this load puts 5 hits on fox vitals, which is not great and I would like to improve on it however I believe this shot size would be effective on a fox at 75 yards. When I have time I will load some larger shot sizes with buffer and pattern them at 75 yards and maybe 100.

 

Still work in progress at 75 yards.

 

 

[tackb]

That's better than I expected mab , still following this thread with interest

[gbal]

Hmmmmm......more research/testing indicated,as you say. This does not look too reliably effective/terminal-just one "pattern" of course,but two of the five hits are marginal-unlikely to do much -so more like three 'effective' hits-have you checked the energy/penetration of individual shot pellets of this size at 75 yards...?

 

gbal

[brown dog]

That's better than I expected mab , still following this thread with interest

 

Me too. MAB, any chance of some photos of your 12b reloading set-up / tools for putting these loads together?

[MAB1954]

Hmmmmm......more research/testing indicated,as you say. This does not look too reliably effective/terminal-just one "pattern" of course,but two of the five hits are marginal-unlikely to do much -so more like three 'effective' hits-have you checked the energy/penetration of individual shot pellets of this size at 75 yards...?

 

gbal

 

Yes, I agree gbal. Pattern is weak and I'm not getting my 6 hits...work in progress. Energy wise using the method I described in an earlier post a 0.180 inch dia 8.1 grain pellet with a muzzle velocity of 1250fps would, I estimate based on American data, have a remaining velocity of 600fps at 75 yards thus about 6.4 ft/lbs energy....6 of those more than enough to stop a fox.

[MAB1954]

 

Me too. MAB, any chance of some photos of your 12b reloading set-up / tools for putting these loads together?

 

I use MEC loaders a 600 single stage and a 650 progressive both good machines and 650 is a good rapid reloader even without the auto primer feed.

 

For heavy large pellet buckshot loads the machines are only used to size the case, seat the primer and crimp the case. The powder, wad and shot are all individually weigh and assembled however its not a problem because normally I don't use that many per year.

 

Photo shows the 2 MEC's a Lee press for my rifle reloading and a powder measure,

[MAB1954]

Just a short update however no real progress to report. Been working with an extended choke bored 0.690" [ex full] on the Mossberg using shot size A & AAA [0.180" & 0.200" dia] in payloads of 1.5oz. Patterns are still quite weak at 60 - 65 yards and not always getting the 6 hits on the head/vitals. From the penetration on the target backing boards both pellet sizes have plenty of energy to do the job.

 

From what shooters in America have recorded a 75 yard pattern with at least 6 hits on head/vitals is achievable and has been done. I would very much like to achieve similar or better result thus will keep going.

 

My thinking at the moment is to try the following.

1. Plated lead shot - Used a lot in US and improves patterns because it harder thus less pellet deformation.

2. Would like to find a choke bored 0.675" or 0.680" - Seems popular in US for fox and coyote.

3. It would be interesting to do some testing with a different barrel on the Mossberg or even another make of gun.

 

Hope that keeping this thread going is ok with the site mods.

[brown dog]

Just a short update however no real progress to report. Been working with an extended choke bored 0.690" [ex full] on the Mossberg using shot size A & AAA [0.180" & 0.200" dia] in payloads of 1.5oz. Patterns are still quite weak at 60 - 65 yards and not always getting the 6 hits on the head/vitals. From the penetration on the target backing boards both pellet sizes have plenty of energy to do the job.

 

From what shooters in America have recorded a 75 yard pattern with at least 6 hits on head/vitals is achievable and has been done. I would very much like to achieve similar or better result thus will keep going.

 

My thinking at the moment is to try the following.

1. Plated lead shot - Used a lot in US and improves patterns because it harder thus less pellet deformation.

2. Would like to find a choke bored 0.675" or 0.680" - Seems popular in US for fox and coyote.

3. It would be interesting to do some testing with a different barrel on the Mossberg or even another make of gun.

 

Hope that keeping this thread going is ok with the site mods.

 

Absolutely!!

[The_Dogge]

I did another test with shells with a plastic wad cup section reversed, results were quite encouraging, I think this was 45yd. However two of the shots did miss POA by 1 foot or more. see here https://goo.gl/photos/5VZkCZMFDPAKAdAA8

Terminal effect on the ground looked good.

 

Just checking the poor grouping wasn't down to me (this was offhand with no sights from a Beretta 391) I shot a group of factory slug at 50yd on a range last weekend, this group could be covered by my palm and was just to the left of point of aim, though I probably aimed more carefully.

 

I think it showed that you can build a cheap close range safe slug substitute for target practice, but I'm not convinced that this approach will yield a worthwhile long range fox round.

[MAB1954]

I did another test with shells with a plastic wad cup section reversed, results were quite encouraging, I think this was 45yd. However two of the shots did miss POA by 1 foot or more. see here https://goo.gl/photos/5VZkCZMFDPAKAdAA8

Terminal effect on the ground looked good.

 

Just checking the poor grouping wasn't down to me (this was offhand with no sights from a Beretta 391) I shot a group of factory slug at 50yd on a range last weekend, this group could be covered by my palm and was just to the left of point of aim, though I probably aimed more carefully.

 

I think it showed that you can build a cheap close range safe slug substitute for target practice, but I'm not convinced that this approach will yield a worthwhile long range fox round.

 

Not done any reloading of slugs for shotgun so cannot comment from experience however I do not think a slug would make a 100 yard fox round. I have seen some America reports with up to 0.690" dia round balls, some loads with 2 or 3 balls. Accuracy at 50 yards was quite good, for a smoothbore, with balls hitting a 10" plate however pointless because large lead shot does the job at 50 yards.

If the weather is dry I have some 1.5oz loads with 0.180" dia pellets loaded ready for testing at 60 and 75 yards...fingers crossed for a result.

[264wm]

 

What a relief to hear of someone who's actually handled them , I was beginning to think they were the unicorn of shotgun cartridges! Did they appear to work as claimed?

I was given a box of these by someone who worked at York Guns,never shot them and eventually gave them to two lads in the village who shot foxes on a regular basis. They gave me them back after about 4 or 5 rounds claiming that you had to aim the shotgun like a rifle otherwise you would miss as the pattern is very tight.

If you want some let me know I have about 1/2 dozen left..

 

regards

N

[264wm]

I was given a box of these by someone who worked at York Guns,never shot them and eventually gave them to two lads in the village who shot foxes on a regular basis. They gave me them back after about 4 or 5 rounds claiming that you had to aim the shotgun like a rifle otherwise you would miss as the pattern is very tight.

If you want some let me know I have about 1/2 dozen left..

 

regards

N

On another note I ordered some Gualandi slugs and Primed Cheddite from Si, had a phone call the following day from the CC company asking if had bought a holiday for £3600 and if I had been to New York and purchased a steak dinner,just coincidence of course.