Jump to content

Building an ultra-long range SGC-legal 12bore fox load.


Recommended Posts

Nope, looking for longrange shotgun cartridge ideas and feedback - and nothing else :)

Hope you get some of them shells , bet they kick like a mule :blink:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 88
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Once bought 100 Cheddite slug, because they were stupidly cheap at the side of competition slug....

 

Jesus H Christ, i,ve never shot anything with as much recoil. They were hunting slug for boar and had at least 3 times the recoil.

 

Shot 5 and gave them away....utterly awful.

 

Would not have wanted to be at the other end though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

When they fail at 100metris,the mule certainly will....sore asses all round.

 

:-) gbal

 

'Haters always going to hate' etc :rolleyes::) ......George, would I be correct in presuming that you have never handled or shot these cartridges or in fact, had even heard of them until this thread? .....but you've decided they're crap based on zero empirical data? 300wm is the only chap who's used them and he reports success. Empirically, that's 100%. - Cheddite actually claim the 100s are effective to 120m .....outside your experience? (mine too!) The only italian net chat on them actually warns against taking mid-distance shots as the spread is too narrow. I'll try them with an open mind. The nature of their double wadding makes basic ballistic sense. I share Gareth's concerns about 'wad flip' and patterns, as I do struggle to visualise how the shot is released uniformly, but, if they work, I'm ready to shift my paradigm. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I eagerly await your results matt , I'm not convinced on the lethality of number 2 shot at 100m on a fox but I'm fascinated to see if they pattern well enough to be useable ?

 

as an aside I have shot with a few Italians over the years and the ones I shot with felt that 30g 6's were perfectly adequate for 100yd pheasants over the head of a gun three guns down the line , surprisingly the pheasant was unharmed................

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I eagerly await your results matt , I'm not convinced on the lethality of number 2 shot at 100m on a fox but I'm fascinated to see if they pattern well enough to be useable ?

 

as an aside I have shot with a few Italians over the years and the ones I shot with felt that 30g 6's were perfectly adequate for 100yd pheasants over the head of a gun three guns down the line , surprisingly the pheasant was unharmed................

I'm hoping for 50m with 50m design overkill.

The italian story reminds me of the apocryphal spaniel and rock salt story!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't do 'hate',Matt,even at Xmas. Just trying to inject a little humour-perhaps an overcarry from the 17 discussion and the zebra shooting tall tale......of Bwahna Baldie,rediscoverer of Newtons law of mule kicks.

I have not shot any Cheddite cartridges,but have a modicum for the Italian approach to shooting (actually 'approach' gives the wrong idea.Used to be more,"if you can see it....... " you can miss it,5 times before reloading.(and yes,I had an Italian semi.)But that was on songbirds,a small target indeed.

The 'guru' on pigeon watch was dismissive-I don't know if that was empirical "been there' suggested experience.I

I am fairly familiar with the loss of momentum energy in 12 bore cartridges,though some 70 y shots with mag loads on geese are probably true. I suspect a fox is tougher.

The data on the residual ft lb energy from shot quoted is empirically derived,but not by me.It was not Cheddite,nor was it at 100 metres. Halfway seemed pretty poor,but I did say a cluster of such shot might be more effective.

I am on these bases somewhat sceptical; if such a loading were effective,I'd have expected there to be arather more positive reviews/user experience.I'd call that a lack of empirical support,but if you want to say 1/1 is 100% endorsement,so be it.

I'll be interested to hear the sample size doubling-20 sucesses and no failures would be a more convincing result.

50 yards with big shot and heavy load in a 12 mag or 10 guage sounds more plausible.

 

 

 

Sceptical yes,unless the energy data are way out; open minded enough to see if it works,rather hope it does not-too open to abuse-like 70 yard shots at wildfowl.I accept the responsible shooter does not do this. That's based on one out of one,but it could easily double,Matt. :-)

 

g

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I always remember a story the Gentleman who taught me, often told.

 

He was on a fox drive and the beaters were pushing on through a wood.

 

A fox broke cover and someone took a wild shot at it with SG , missing well high.

 

One of the SG pellets hit a beater [ a young lad ] in the temple and killed him outright.

 

He was 200 yards away from the gun , and had the utter misfortune of the pellet missing Lord knows how many trees on its fateful journey.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have some of the Cheddite 36g 60m double wad cartridges, a dwindling number now! When I was given them we played around a lot to see what they could do and found they are pretty devastating. They hold together very well and act as slugs upto a point. Have played around much with modifying shotgun cartridges and it works reversing another shot cup and taping it over the shot. Never shot flying game with them but shot a couple of foxes, might aswel of shot them with a brenneke. They are good for dispatching deer on the road side. Totally agree with baldies sad story, the furthest fox I shot with a shotgun was with sg's and it was only one pellet that hit it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have some of the Cheddite 36g 60m double wad cartridges, a dwindling number now! When I was given them we played around a lot to see what they could do and found they are pretty devastating. They hold together very well and act as slugs upto a point. Have played around much with modifying shotgun cartridges and it works reversing another shot cup and taping it over the shot. Never shot flying game with them but shot a couple of foxes, might aswel of shot them with a brenneke. They are good for dispatching deer on the road side. Totally agree with baldies sad story, the furthest fox I shot with a shotgun was with sg's and it was only one pellet that hit it.

 

SGs are madness, like firing a burst of 9mm who-knows-where.

The beauty of these is the small shot -less than BB- so, to my mind, air rifle danger distances.

What sort of pattern size were you getting at 50m?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The idea I think behind them is that the shot cup stays intact until the stated distance and only then does the pattern open up. This is true for the 60m ones. Sg's are good for certain uses, like fox drives where backstops are suitable like any other shooting. If you can find a uk dealer for Cheddite cartridges I'd love to know, their bird shot cartridges are really good, up there with Rc sipes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I will try and get to York Guns this weekend if possible and see if they have any in stock. I will buy a box or two, cut one open and post photos of the guts and will also do a redneck patterning and range test too.

I hesitate to suggest anything else here,but if you can get some,a penetration test of some sort would be almost essential in any assessment of suitability for live quarry,if the idea is to change that state. Maybe an old telephone directory/sheets of cardboard/similar and number of pages penetrated is some guide.....easily enough compared to other projectiles.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes,I accept that-if the second inverted wad/cup is retaining the pellets-I was concerned that might be construed as 'solid' slug,with considerable clout.

But they have to spread at some point -perhaps 50-70 yards down range,with some reliability,otherwise they are in effect a slug,but need the dispersion to compensate for so-so slug accuracy(and maybe safety). Cheddite could have offered cubed shot,if needed-they were innovative.

Hence too,the need for a 'ft lb' energy retention measure-and penetration seemed the easiest way to at least see if they might suffice.I was thinking a decent 12 ft lb air rilfe could put most of it's single shots on a " fox+ surrounds " target,but it sure would be no vulpicide tool-nor would 30 such rilfes in unison.

 

Retained energy is the key,together with a fairly tight spread (static fox).Interesting,and curious that they don't seem to have had much use....I was thinking old 'punt gun',which did have the range,with a pretty stout charge;but shoulder gun wildfowlers......I just don't know,not had the peculiar sensation of whistling wildfowl and lead shot in the moonlight for a long time!

It might work,possibly a little eratically.....

 

Maybe they could get some old Hornady plastic Ballistic Tip material,that would melt downrange....and release the shot ..... and no,I'm not serious.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've had a couple of foxes with a 12 bore.10 to 15yds shots.1 shot kills.pattern hadnt opened up much with no 5's.its no foxing tool let alone a longrange shooter.most of us dont shoot like george digweed either.shotguns are for birds and 50yd max for the average shooter.

It's no average shot that can consistently hit 50yd birds !

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


Lumensmini.png

IMG-20230320-WA0011.jpg

CALTON MOOR RANGE (2) (200x135).jpg

bradley1 200.jpg

NVstore200.jpg

blackrifle.png

jr_firearms_200.gif

valkyrie 200.jpg

tab 200.jpg

Northallerton NSAC shooting.jpg

RifleMags_200x100.jpg

dolphin button4 (200x100).jpg

CASEPREP_FINAL_YELLOW_hi_res__200_.jpg

rovicom200.jpg



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy