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.260 vermin control


Filthy Red Man.260

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260 rem is a lovely calibre ...I use it for deer and well pleased!

 

Why not get into reloading you own ammo?

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I tried fox control with a 6.5 x 47l (the more accurate brother of the 260), found it to loopy for my liking. Still my favourite deer calibre though.

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I tried fox control with a 6.5 x 47l (the more accurate brother of the 260), found it to loopy for my liking. Still my favourite deer calibre though.

FS Garry, did you have to open that can of worms?

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That was my plan all along Gary - 6.5x47 rifle does all duties. Now i think a 6 winmag will have to become order of the day so I don't have a loopy foxing rig. ;)

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Loopy: (a) an exaggerated ballistic trajectory OR

B) an exaggerated ballistic belief

 

Drop in inches 100 200 ,300, 400 yards

 

204 32@4275 +.6 0 4.1 13.1

 

22250 55@3240 +.6 0 4.2 13.2 *** corrected see post 27

 

 

223 55@3240 +.7 0 7 21.4

 

243 55@ 3850 +.7 0 4.4 13.6

 

hot6 85@3300 +1.2 0 6 18.2

 

 

 

260 100@ 3200 +1.3 0 6.4 19.2

 

260 120 @ 2950 +1.5 0 7.1 20.8

 

hot6.5 125@3200 +1.5 0 5.8 16.8

 

 

Not a lot in it, for 200 zero and out to 300+ a) not wrong B) not proven :-) As usual "it depends"....

 

350+ velocity gives diminishing returns- that's where BC starts to really matter,but they all need dialling in elevation -over 12 inches by 400y even for the very best- though very long shots for fox except in exceptional circumstances.) The larger calibres of course have superior wind performance,and energy, as BC increases.

 

gbal

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I've used many different calibres at night on foxes, .223, 22-250, .243, 25-06, 6.5x47, .308 and bullets from 40gn to 155gn. The best for me are light frangiable bullets zeroed at 200m that remain less than 1" (2.5cm) high at 100m. If youre above 1.5" high at 100 that may lead to a shot which has to be thought about and placed accordingly in a very short window of opportunity. Fast, flat and frangiable. 95vmax in 6.5 are quite emphatic! Wouldnt reccomend lobbing deer bullets around at night though, but thats just my preference (i picked up a lot of ground because a fox shooter using deer bullets had a ricochet and shot a cow by accident, fox bullet would have been more likely to break up or loose its energy)

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Gary,agreed....deer bullets whizzing around in the dark are not what I was recommending at all- they are just given for comparison as we moved from 20 to 6.5 calibre.They also show that there is little gain-if indeed any-from a higher BC ,heavier ,faster cf cartridge at normal fox ranges.

 

95g at 3330 in 25-06 are still 1.3 at 100 for 200 zero,so getting them sub 1 inch in a 6.5 suggests rather hot ...264 win mag just about makes 1". But the data also show the eventual inevitable limitations of all cartridges...including the excellent-for-purpose high velocity, 20/224 cartridges,once outside their effective envelope-in all cartridges the drop becomes unsustainable,but for night fox,this does not occur at anywhere approaching normal ranges,for the 20/224 class.

The actual similarity of most cf trajectories within 150 yards is often not quite taken on board,with wishfull thinking that some velocity whizzer will really be noticeably flatter to 200 or so.Trajectory gains are slight,wind a tad more,energy (not needed) greater,with the bigger calbres,leaving the smaller cal cfs the better all round (pun intended) tool for this job-with appropriate bullet selection for terminal effect and safety-just as you say.

g

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One of my favourite shots is when toby is laying in a rut or in the stubble thinking that he is safe, just a small amount of him showing at a doable distance. A shot you might not be able to take so easily with something that travels to far from the crosshair. 55gn bullet in a .243 does all i want in a nightime rifle, 123amax in my day gun when you can range and dial.

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One of my favourite shots is when toby is laying in a rut or in the stubble thinking that he is safe, just a small amount of him showing at a doable distance. A shot you might not be able to take so easily with something that travels to far from the crosshair. 55gn bullet in a .243 does all i want in a nightime rifle, 123amax in my day gun when you can range and dial.

 

Gary,agreed-after a youth spent looking for a Middlestead 22/243,finally the real deal comes along with 55g for the 243-easy peasy.Now all that is needed is a high BC varmint unfriendly bullet (VMax BC and Dtac not quite) without need of fast twist.No wonder the 6mm wildcats from the 6.5s (x47L and Creedmore) are so popular in 'Precision Rifle' in US. Fast twist Ackley will be a fair day gun too,but let's allow some slack...... :-)

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Will,back in the day the 87 Hornady was about as good as it got for a 243 vermin bullet-but this was before BC,fast twists and all that technical malarky-which actually really matters.

There has been/is a similar thread focussing on the " Cartridge Options for 75/80 Amax for varminting" started by BIg Al 7 Oct,and an earlier one on 22/250 and 243 Long Range (600+y) rabbit shooting-the 243 currently looses out -just- as it does not have a comparably high BC bullet that is teminally effective.

 

That's the compromise with the otherwise fine 87g Vmax (just as back in the day)-about as good as most standard twist 243's can shoot very well (some might go 95,but the gain is small if any),and 87g just does not give the BCs needed .

Of course a fast twist 243 with 105 -115 Dtac has the ballistics,but the 115Dtac is suspect -through and through pencilhits-unacceptable. Remember all this is at some fairly atypical stretched distances...the old 87s class of unknown BC and without plastic tips were pretty effective to 450 yards. Still are,and the 87 Vmax likewise.

The compromise is in ultimate distance-though for most that isn't too relevant-not many have opportunities to shoot vermin at 750y-or the gear/skill to do so in any wind...or are young enough to field craft in closer!!

Good luck with the 95s-your rifle may well be fine with them- and would have an on paper avantage,slight though it might be.The answer though seems to be a fast twist,high BC and then rabbit sized gongs out to 1000y...where misses only wound pride. At the other end ,the 55-62 light bullets do zip along from a standard 243. Case capacity matters,if the other components can be optimised (but look at the 223-very much improved by such component development-but of course can't keep up with the bigger cases,when they get the components-or even the 6BR,the ultimate efficiency number...so far?)

 

Good shooting

g

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  • 3 months later...

95gr Vmax over 42-43 grains of Varget in the .260rem proves to be rather potent against foxes......My Remington's factory, pencil weight barrel likes them.

 

If you like tidy carcass's though, wouldn't be the ideal choice, they are rather explosive.

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The relative ballistic comparisons-and they are not contrastds- have been made in posts already.

Of course a 6.5 will tend to fatality on foxes hit properly.

 

As Gary and I suggest,it may not be too clever to be shooting such cartridges at night-they are effective,yes but have no practical shooting advantage over typical distances,and are needlessly powerful,raisung potential safety issues in some situations,at least.

 

Very probably many more foxes are effectively shot with 224 and 20 cartridges than with more potent rounds. That is suggestive,at least. You always need enough gun, even a tad more,but in the UK,the 470 nitro express is not a varmint cartridge (though it has been so used elsewhere-big varmints!).

 

The use of eg 6.5 s probably reflects convenience for the shooter,who has at least dual use of such a cartridge,than it does an optimum choice for fox at night. At the other end of the scale,the bunny hunter who uses his 22lr for 125y shots on fox is being unethical,not economical.

 

gbal

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It comes down to what the local police force will give me for shooting over land at an array of quarry. When I asked for a .260 for deer, when already having a .223 for roe deer and fox.....the .223 was removed from my over land conditions. Why would I need two rifles for deer, surely one rifle will do? To some extent I agree with that, and from atleast one aspect, one rifle across the board suits me.

 

I do agree with you, you don't want to be chucking big heavy bullets around at night. Which is why I've gone for the 95 Vmax as it is as light as I can get(locally anyway). As always a safe backstop is absolutely paramount, whether using rounds that are more than likely going to exit, or rounds that will stop dead. No backstop, no shot, no matter what you're chucking at them.

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It comes down to what the local police force will give me for shooting over land at an array of quarry. When I asked for a .260 for deer, when already having a .223 for roe deer and fox.....the .223 was removed from my over land conditions. Why would I need two rifles for deer, surely one rifle will do? To some extent I agree with that, and from at least one aspect, one rifle across the board suits me.

 

I do agree with you, you don't want to be chucking big heavy bullets around at night. Which is why I've gone for the 95 Vmax as it is as light as I can get(locally anyway). As always a safe backstop is absolutely paramount, whether using rounds that are more than likely going to exit, or rounds that will stop dead. No backstop, no shot, no matter what you're chucking at them.

 

 

I must admit this is interesting reading, I used to do a load of foxing "back in the day" with my good old .222 and 50 Grn spitzers, rumbling along at around 3200fps, as Grum87 says, no backstop no shot, so I don't quite get the issue. I dont have foxing perm now so its all relative for me, but I do a good deal of deer management and use the .243 with 100grn and would happily knock down foxes, though of course I do get they will pass through, but that is what the safe backstop is for?

 

So for me the .260 with the right bullet will shoot flat enough, be safe and have plenty of stopping power even if the shot is not spot on and is a goer.

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Loopy: (a) an exaggerated ballistic trajectory OR

B) an exaggerated ballistic belief

 

Drop in inches 100 200 ,300, 400 yards

 

204 32@4275 +.6 0 4.1 13.1

 

22250 55@3240 +.6 0 4.2 13.2

 

 

223 55@3240 +.7 0 7 21.4

 

243 55@ 3850 +.7 0 4.4 13.6

 

hot6 85@3300 +1.2 0 6 18.2

 

 

 

260 100@ 3200 +1.3 0 6.4 19.2

 

260 120 @ 2950 +1.5 0 7.1 20.8

 

hot6.5 125@3200 +1.5 0 5.8 16.8

 

 

Not a lot in it, for 200 zero and out to 300+ a) not wrong B) not proven :-) As usual "it depends"....

 

350+ velocity gives diminishing returns- that's where BC starts to really matter,but they all need dialling in elevation -over 12 inches by 400y even for the very best- though very long shots for fox except in exceptional circumstances.) The larger calibres of course have superior wind performance,and energy, as BC increases.

 

gbal

AFAIK the .204 uses about half the powder of the 22 250 ? Mine likes 24.9 grs Vit 133 with a 35 Gr pill.

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SW,the 204 uses less powder,agreed.

 

That though is not a ballistic datum,really.

 

It may reduce costs about 10p a shot,if that is critical -possibly a little more with lighter bullets.....but less downrange energy...and so on and on....

 

Glad you find your 204 shoots well. It is indeed an efficient and impressive sub calibre cartridge.

 

g

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Loopy: (a) an exaggerated ballistic trajectory OR

B) an exaggerated ballistic belief

 

Drop in inches 100 200 ,300, 400 yards

 

204 32@4275 +.6 0 4.1 13.1

 

22250 55@3240 +.6 0 4.2 13.2

 

 

223 55@3240 +.7 0 7 21.4

 

243 55@ 3850 +.7 0 4.4 13.6

 

hot6 85@3300 +1.2 0 6 18.2

 

 

 

260 100@ 3200 +1.3 0 6.4 19.2

 

260 120 @ 2950 +1.5 0 7.1 20.8

 

hot6.5 125@3200 +1.5 0 5.8 16.8

 

 

Not a lot in it, for 200 zero and out to 300+ a) not wrong B) not proven :-) As usual "it depends"....

 

350+ velocity gives diminishing returns- that's where BC starts to really matter,but they all need dialling in elevation -over 12 inches by 400y even for the very best- though very long shots for fox except in exceptional circumstances.) The larger calibres of course have superior wind performance,and energy, as BC increases.

 

gbal

 

 

223 55@3240 +.7 0 7 21.4

 

22-250 55@3240 +.6 0 4.2 13.2

 

How does this work? Same bullet, same velocity but around 7 inches of difference @ 400 yards?

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223 55@3240 +.7 0 7 21.4

 

22-250 55@3240 +.6 0 4.2 13.2

 

How does this work? Same bullet, same velocity but around 7 inches of difference @ 400 yards?

Different bullet coefficiency?

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