Guest Stacka Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCetrizine Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Anthropomorphic garbage. You can't learn anything about wild animals by domesticating them and assigning emotions to them that they lack the capacity for. Foxes are predators in a food chain. They are also part of an ecosystem that needs to be managed. Admittedly it needs to be managed because of thousands of years of human expansion and change has broken it but at least we are now managing it. You can make one fox a cute fluffy pet but that doesn't make all foxes cute and fluffy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuggy Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 'The nicest nature', 'not a predator'. Oh dear... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunner Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 I wonder would that chap trust to leave a baby in the same room for 5 minutes alone ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Re-Pete Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 From the Foxproject website: "Foxes are not and never have been classified as ‘vermin’, so local authorities have no legal obligation to act against them. They are also well aware there is little point. Private “pest controllers’ who offer such a service omit to inform you there is no such thing as a vacant territory. Remove one fox and another will take over the territory within weeks. Removal or destruction of foxes is, at best, an expensive confidence trick and at worst, an act of cruelty. Fox populations are self regulating. They cannot over-populate, but will always breed back to replace numbers lost since the previous breeding season. In fact, far from any increase in fox numbers, recent scientific surveys indicate stable populations in all areas apart from London and the south east, where numbers are estimated to be around 10% lower than they were in 1998." Unfortunately, I doubt this will cut any ice with the untermensch who shoot them at night with the aid of a searchlight, or hunt them with dogs................ H/man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJR Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 untermensch? Is that meant to provoke or deride those involve in fox control or merely invite debate? If the former I'd urge caution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkyboy Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 untermensch? Is that meant to provoke or deride those involve in fox control or merely invite debate? If the former I'd urge caution. Too late for caution my friend....id give it a few more posts before the mods step in.....sad really as this forum is a great place for informed debate but theres no allowing for that type of comment...by the way i shoot foxes at night and during the day....Hugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunner Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Untermensch = subhuman creature ? Is this translation about right ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkyboy Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Untermensch = subhuman creature ? Is this translation about right ?[/quote spot on gunner....the nazis used the comment a great deal especially when they talked about the jews or the russians...Hugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWShooter Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 From the Foxproject website: "Foxes are not and never have been classified as ‘vermin’, so local authorities have no legal obligation to act against them. They are also well aware there is little point. Private “pest controllers’ who offer such a service omit to inform you there is no such thing as a vacant territory. Remove one fox and another will take over the territory within weeks. Removal or destruction of foxes is, at best, an expensive confidence trick and at worst, an act of cruelty. Fox populations are self regulating. They cannot over-populate, but will always breed back to replace numbers lost since the previous breeding season. In fact, far from any increase in fox numbers, recent scientific surveys indicate stable populations in all areas apart from London and the south east, where numbers are estimated to be around 10% lower than they were in 1998." Unfortunately, I doubt this will cut any ice with the untermensch who shoot them at night with the aid of a searchlight, or hunt them with dogs................ H/man I successfully use night vision and thermal imaging to control fox numbers , I`ve also done scientific surveys and my system works , (I have an Ecology Bsc which covered survey techniques ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Re-Pete Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Sorry if my comment was a bit strong, guys, but I just don't get killing wildlife in general, unless you're going to eat it.............................and as for informed debate, the first reply used the term "Anthropomorphic rubbish"...........................I saw an old guy who likes foxes..................as do I. H/man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkyboy Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Sorry if my comment was a bit strong, guys, but I just don't get killing wildlife in general, unless you're going to eat it.............................and as for informed debate, the first reply used the term "Anthropomorphic rubbish"...........................I saw an old guy who likes foxes..................as do I. H/man fair play to you sir....i respect your apologie and the fact that you like foxes...i could see that the elderly man gained a great deal of comfort and enjoyment from his friend the fox. How ever there are those who will have a very different view point.....Hugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCetrizine Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 It is anthropomorphic rubbish. That is a perfectly reasoned and proportional response to a video with no scientific facts. It's the same as calling psychics, charlatans. Due to the need for farming to supply the out of proportion human population in this and most countries, almost all animals now need management. In some cases it is protection and in some cases it is population control through euthanasia. This woolly minded attitude of not hurting the fluffy animals will only lead to the extinction of others. It's unfortunate that we have changed our environment and nature of living to the point where the ecosystem is so totally unbalanced that constant management is required but that's just the way it is. There's no way back now. Returning to a society of small self sufficient groups of subsistence hunters and gatherers who are in tune with a balanced ecosystem is simply impossible without the deaths of millions. If you care for animals, you have to see them as species and not individuals. It may be sad to shoot 10 foxes but if it means the remaining 500 don't need to eat the last ever watervole in order to not starve then it's worth it surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stacka Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 It is anthropomorphic rubbish. That is a perfectly reasoned and proportional response to a video with no scientific facts. It's the same as calling psychics, charlatans. Due to the need for farming to supply the out of proportion human population in this and most countries, almost all animals now need management. In some cases it is protection and in some cases it is population control through euthanasia. This woolly minded attitude of not hurting the fluffy animals will only lead to the extinction of others. It's unfortunate that we have changed our environment and nature of living to the point where the ecosystem is so totally unbalanced that constant management is required but that's just the way it is. There's no way back now. Returning to a society of small self sufficient groups of subsistence hunters and gatherers who are in tune with a balanced ecosystem is simply impossible without the deaths of millions. If you care for animals, you have to see them as species and not individuals. It may be sad to shoot 10 foxes but if it means the remaining 500 don't need to eat the last ever watervole in order to not starve then it's worth it surely? The most sensible and educated response to the subject I ever heard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Re-Pete Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 I concede, Mr Cetirizine has a point....................like the destruction of the planet's forests/ecosystems, and the extinction of hundreds of species, it's down to the "be fruitful and multiply" virus that's infected the human race, courtesy of some ancient myths and legends..................er, perhaps I'd better not go there............. A pity the human population couldn't have been self regulating at around 600 million. What a nice place earth could have been then........ H/man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggersqueezer Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 there are nice people and evil people if a fox did a video about people i would wonder what it would show?? good muslims yet evil muslims the trick is to take out the ones causing a problem.sadly i think we leave foxes little choice sometimes. the biggest problem the planet has is humans not foxes.that said if a fox is a problem i deal with it clean and humane.some people are just foxing mad and shoot every one regardless and then brag about it.the guy backed up his claims with video and were as bad as the anti's if we don't take a moment to think....a kill em all atitude shows very little inteligence.a kill if you have to shows respect and thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZ Varminter Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Ahhhhhhhh........ One sad lonely old man with all the time in the world to devote his heart and soul into domesticating foxes. As soon as you hand feed any animal they are no longer wild as they become reliant on your food source. As far as I'm concerned fair enough let him do what he wants as he can. But I anyone who tells me their an expert on foxes is wrong. Every bloody one is different. He can't possibly base any argument on the fact he has domesticated foxes and he knows them, washing the fox and using a hair dryer on it....come one really.... It's totally laughable and unfortunately makes me want to write a comment about it as usually is it back and laugh at stuff like this. I have a huge amount of admiration for foxes and total respect for them but I still shoot them!!! They are vermin and need controlling. Plain and simple always have been and always will be. Just the way it is, reality not a children's book. All the best CZV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradders Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Here's my opinion for what its worth; I have no issue whatsoever with people shooting vermin (inc foxes) as it needs not be done (I've done it myself on a limited basis) but choose not to these days. What does bother me though is those that take glee in destroying the target as much as possible and gloating over the amount of damage their particular bullet can do. Not happy with just shooting them, some do seem to get a bit of a chubby on with blowing them to smithereens. To me that is somewhat unhealthy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Re-Pete Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 My contempt was initially directed at these very people, the types who publish a photo of the dead "vermin", or of themselves posing gleefully with gun, next to their vehicle with the dead animals arranged over the bonnet. And yet in the same breath, they will appeal for all shooters to support them and their sport, completely oblivious to the negative PR they themselves are giving it. OK, I accept that doesn't include everyone who hunts with a firearm. H/man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cumbrian 1 Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 Surely we all hunt first and foremost for pleasure? To hunt we must kill, the other benefits (population control for deer, eliminating a nuisance fox, greater conservation benefits of pheasant shooting, providing food etc) are purely secondary in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stacka Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 Look let's not go on to PR and giving the wrong impression....I still get amazed by target shooters rocking up to a range wearing MTP and Para smocks etc, yet never never serving a day for queen or country in their life. Like wise with the Real Tree Cammo brigade on the ranges. It looks silly.....yet they are part of a family. The very close and welcoming shooting family. So who cares...not me, we are all entitled to our own views and acts. Unless of course it's illegal. We have some what dissolved from the subject.....I'm in a ever evolving quest to understand the Vulipne pest. I shoot a lot a year, and in most cases I get paid to do so. So understanding them is paramount. Oh and yes I take photos....but to compare and catalogue the ones I shoot. Another video to pose a bit of thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Re-Pete Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 I'm sure there are far more attacks on kids by adults and dogs than by foxes.............. H/man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 ....even,to the extreme,by their parent(s),who normally have hard wired tendencies to work for the survival of their genes. Actually,both videos are without much value as evidence of much more than the limited /flawed thinking of the video makers-start by wondering if it could be the same fox in both! (I am not for or against shooting foxes or parents.As mentioned though,laissez faire won't do as a management strategy.) gbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bewsh Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 I concede, Mr Cetirizine has a point....................like the destruction of the planet's forests/ecosystems, and the extinction of hundreds of species, it's down to the "be fruitful and multiply" virus that's infected the human race, courtesy of some ancient myths and legends..................er, perhaps I'd better not go there............. A pity the human population couldn't have been self regulating at around 600 million. What a nice place earth could have been then........ H/man Sadly apex predators (of which we are the worst) don't self regulate in the same way as tertiary organisms or those below the apex. Foxes are no different. When natural food sources, resources and space run out they adapt and expand into new areas, deplete new food stocks and remove the resources that other lower organisms rely on.... Ring any bells?! Predator control is essential to maintaining biodiversity in an environment which is far from natural We are not talking about an untouched environment where everything balances out in the long run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggersqueezer Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 i wish a fox would eat the thing next door that screams through my bedroom wall 5 times a night lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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