Re-barreling

[treecutter]

Baldie Dave just rebarreled my .223.

Sent to his workshop just over two weeks ago, received it back today proofed, painted and muzzle brake fitted,

Now that's service!!

[Sherlock]

Dont follow that logic myself. a rebarrel is cheaper than a new gun plus i can chose what profile length and twist i want and if its remaining the same case/cal then no waiting for a variation either,its a no brainer

 

The economics are simple - rather than re-barrel your existing rifle - you sell it as a going concern (assuming that it is) Then you have a decent wedge off your new gun. Cost wise it nearly always works out better to do this

 

I have had two quotes off rifle smiths this year to re-barrel an existing rifle, Both were around the £850 mark once you had included vapour blasting the barrel and transfer. Dasherman re-barrelled my last rifle - the cost was around £800 with threading / thread protector and vapour blasting which were extras ( and come standard on a factory rifle)

 

Totally agree about the benefits of being able to choose twist rates and even calibres that aren't produced in factory rifles that's why two of my current rifles are wearing after market tubes.

 

But its worth baring in mind for most rifle shooters there are decent range of factory rifles in standard calibres and twists that more meet the rifle mans needs and provide exceptional accuracy.

 

The average fox, vermin or deer shooter doesn't need to shoot 0.000000001 groups. That level of accuracy may have its place in a comp or even very long range shooting... but IME most good factory rifles are capable of 0.5 moa and often much smaller with careful hand loading. I have seen quite a few old CZ's and cheap howas produce consistently clover leaf groups. As does my factory 223 tikka 595 with an 18 year old factory tube.

 

A couple of things I have learnt from having a quite a few of custom tubes fitted . - Firstly - a custom barrel doesn't guarantee any better accuracy than a good factory rifle.- in fact two of my least accurate rifles had posh barrels fitted .

 

Secondly - even if a custom tube means your groups shrink form 0.4 moa to 0.2 moa -- what will that extra accuracy actually bring .... other than bragging rights . ????

 

Lastly - you nearly always lose money when you sell them. - put a barrel on for £800 - you have virtually added nothing to the value of your rifle. Maybe £100.

 

 

Soap box away

Sherlock

[pork chop]

sherlock you make some valid points.i have used factory rifles that will just about match my rebarreled ones ,just happen to be cz and tikka and my first remington and a semi custom of a mates that was less than inspiring. saying that though having been stung twice in a row buying factory rifles ( remington) given the choice i would rather rebarrel and having an action that has been worked on a jewel and an after market stock that is bedded it makes even more sence .as for resale value i agree with there but if money is a big concern shooting isnt the best hobby to get into ,dont even want to think about what its cost over the years

[bradders]

For what it's worth, the cost of ammunition you put down your barrel throughout its life will far exceed the cost of the replacement barrel you put on it

[gbal]

...eg 4000 223 with GGG at £42 per hundred is £1680

 

a hot number 1800 at 80p shot (bergers are 50p+) is £1440

 

and so on.... for broadly comparable 'performance as expected'. As Mark says, ammo is quite a lot more than a premium barrel (Bartein,Brux,Broughton class) at around £800-£850...getting on for double.There are somewhat cheaper barrel options,of course-but that just emphasises the point.

 

However,for what it's worth,the ammo cost is inevitably the same,irrespective of barrel-custom or factory,pretty much,as wear is broadly comparable.The one clear point is that the hotter the cartridge,the more cost per shot,barrel and cartridge. Bangs cost bucks.No free lunch,very few soup kitchens.

 

On the wider " rebarrel or not ",it can be a little more complex,though points raised apply variably in specific cases.

You might/not factor in net loss on selling a rifle for less than you paid for it (you might write that off too).

You may or not be able to sell at an acceptable price quickly.FAC issues should not be a hassle,but seem to be for some.

More coice-yes,but Sherlock's points are sound-do you really need that choice,and perhaps extra precision (especially as it may be hard to replicate in the field). Can we have reached the point where .2 groups are barely braggable (I doubt ,but from the one offs I see,maybe... :-)

It's a bit naughty to slip "goodfactory rifle' in- they do differ (as maybe do custom,though far less,with more chance of redress)...so it's a lottery what you buy- though used rifles can sometimes be 'try before buy',with known provenance-so checkable.

Reselling...cost write off-maybe not quite so much...but why -normally- would you custom rebarrel,then sell soon, in an 'unplanned' way?

Say you buy a used Sako at £600-it will probably shoot fine (try it!),but when you custom rebarrel at £850,you have still not paid a new Sako price,and have very ptobably a better barrel-granteyou may not need it,but no harm/cost.Opinion differs on whether nerer model actions etc have actually gone back a bit,but it's unlikely to be worse in use. Doesn't seem to be much in it financially-convenience,pandering to your peccadillos,possibly needs,time scale -good luck with a new one in anything but standard,in stock-and so on. And so on....lots of individual detail considerations-knowable and notso predictable.

OK,you get my point- it is quite variable and for sure one size (even if it's pretty well the same price) won't/need not suit everyone equally.(Sako is of course just an example-though they depreciate a tad less,and maybe have a slight edge-but that's just my ..25 moa worth,based on a couple of them that cost less than a barrel for both. I'd rebarrel if needed,way before I'd buy a new model.).... and still be ahead enough for a coupla thousand

You chose-it don't have to be 100% a 'bean counting' exercise...express yourself .Good shooting :-)

gbal

[SWShooter]

 

The economics are simple - rather than re-barrel your existing rifle - you sell it as a going concern (assuming that it is) Then you have a decent wedge off your new gun. Cost wise it nearly always works out better to do this

 

I have had two quotes off rifle smiths this year to re-barrel an existing rifle, Both were around the £850 mark once you had included vapour blasting the barrel and transfer. Dasherman re-barrelled my last rifle - the cost was around £800 with threading / thread protector and vapour blasting which were extras ( and come standard on a factory rifle)

 

Totally agree about the benefits of being able to choose twist rates and even calibres that aren't produced in factory rifles that's why two of my current rifles are wearing after market tubes.

 

But its worth baring in mind for most rifle shooters there are decent range of factory rifles in standard calibres and twists that more meet the rifle mans needs and provide exceptional accuracy.

 

The average fox, vermin or deer shooter doesn't need to shoot 0.000000001 groups. That level of accuracy may have its place in a comp or even very long range shooting... but IME most good factory rifles are capable of 0.5 moa and often much smaller with careful hand loading. I have seen quite a few old CZ's and cheap howas produce consistently clover leaf groups. As does my factory 223 tikka 595 with an 18 year old factory tube.

 

A couple of things I have learnt from having a quite a few of custom tubes fitted . - Firstly - a custom barrel doesn't guarantee any better accuracy than a good factory rifle.- in fact two of my least accurate rifles had posh barrels fitted .

 

Secondly - even if a custom tube means your groups shrink form 0.4 moa to 0.2 moa -- what will that extra accuracy actually bring .... other than bragging rights . ????

 

Lastly - you nearly always lose money when you sell them. - put a barrel on for £800 - you have virtually added nothing to the value of your rifle. Maybe £100.

 

 

Soap box away

Sherlock

 

Bang on , if you are a hunter a rifle that shoots 1 moa with factory ammo is sufficient , hand load and maybe get down to 1/2 moa , what more do you need ? Comp shooters may need better if they can outshoot their factory rifle , most cant, better to spend your money on some decent glass ...but even then there`s many cases of "The Emperors New Clothes" .

This long range scope review shows the most expensive are not necessarily the best

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2014/09/19/tactical-scopes-field-test-results-summary/

Personally I`d buy a Sako and sell the old rifle rather than re-barrel.

[gbal]

SWS-agreed on the Sako,but if the old rifle is a Sako(since you went this sensible way the last time) then the rbarreled Sako makes a lot of sense-of course,if you bought an inferior rifle last time,it's probaably time to make amends :-

I agree that stalkers would be doing well to shoot 1/2 moa undrer field conditions,even if the rifle 's intrinsic precision was a bit better-fnd first shot to POA matters more.

 

HOWEVER,though the precision blog on scopes is useful,it tends to vary a little year by year,but is fundamentally a review of tactical scopes by tactical shooters-so it probably does not represent other shooters-for example,varminters,Bench Rest,F class.Note too that all the topscopes are indeed expensive scopes,though some expensive scopes do not make the top spots.There are though,crucially,no moderate scopes in the top spots.Good glass yes,but really that's a separate issue since it applies to whatever barrel is chosen.

 

 

 

BUT varminters might be a tad compromised at distance on small vermin with 'only' 1/2 moa.Bench Rest(and maybe Fclass )would not be competitive with only 1/2 moa,and shortrange Bench Range needs 1/4 moa. Such rifles may be even better in a tunnel-ie no human wind error).

I wasn't sure just what point the "emperors new clothes' is alluding to-does it not refer tomisleading statementes by accolytes...shooting has publicobservable results like holes on paper,or dead quarry-can't see how someone saying 'good shot,sir' as the deer runs away convinces the shooter-but if it's saying personal beliefs might influence choices,of course-humans are not very rational.

And the 'simples economics' figures don't really add up.....do they?

 

Apart from all that,spot on. :-)

g