Big Al Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Since Ive gotten into long range varminting it has made me think more this summer about longer range rabbit control using my .22LR. Im not into whacking a rabbit anywhere and calling it a kill, Im only interested in head shots or if needed a well placed chest shot. Over the last month or so Ive set up my CZ455 with a 24x scope and have marked the turrets from 50 to 110yds in 10yd intervals, combined with a rangefinder and shooting from the wing mirror of my jeep it has really made head shots at 100yds quite a lot easier than shooting from sticks under lamplight on a cold and windy night, my normal rabbit shot would be 50yds but it can get a little boring when you have a lot to clear, hence my interest in taking them a bit further out. So to get to the point, in favourable conditions my CZ will shoot just over 1" @ 100yds - usually around the 1.25". I have recently purchased the original model Sako Finnfire Varmint which so far is shooting about the same, albeit Ive not done a proper ammo test with it yet, I have been using SK Std+ and Midas+. The Finnfire is maybe a touch better than the CZ at both 50 & 100yds but the difference on paper is minimal and doesn't really translate to any noticeable difference in the field, both rifles are rolling over rabbits for fun at the minute. Me being me Im still not happy, I was hoping to see a significant difference in the performance of this Finnfire compared to the CZ. This then has me thinking about Anschutz, Im not really a fan of them as far as looks are concerned, I feel the 1417TH feels too light and dinky but then again I could always find a HB version etc. So my question to you guys is do you think there really is a difference in accuracy between any of these three makes of rifles under normal field conditions, say out to 120yds? Im starting to feel like finding the right ammo can be as important as finding the best rifle of the three makes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDBenelliM1 Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Hi Al, I have probably the cheapest CZ model out there, the 452 American with 20" barrel and with SK it shoots very well. On a good day 1" @ 100y. My shooting buddy has recently bought a new anschutz and it doesn't seem to be any more accurate than my old CZ. It also likes SK. Only major difference in ease of shooting them well is the trigger. Mine is (to quote brown dog) " like dragging a canoe up a gravel path" where the Annie trigger is superb. I'm used to mine so I can shoot it well but others struggle! Due a plinking night this week so will put them head to head. Never shot a 455 so don't know if the triggers have been improved over the 452? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6.5shooter Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 Buy youreself a 1710 dhb anschutz. Will it be better? Probably marginally 3/4-1" at 100 sometimes 1/2-3/4 on a good day. You probably wont notice much difference for shooting rabbits though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hancock Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 Find yourself a Weihrauch HW66 Jagd-Match. It's the best kept secret out there !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted July 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 Find yourself a Weihrauch HW66 Jagd-Match. It's the best kept secret out there !!! But will it significantly out shoot the other three at 100yds? I like Weihrauch build quality but the stocks are horrible IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted July 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 Find yourself a Weihrauch HW66 Jagd-Match. It's the best kept secret out there !!! But will it significantly out shoot the other three at 100yds? I like Weihrauch build quality but the stocks are ugly in my opinion, aesthetics to a decree also has to come into it. Hi Al, I have probably the cheapest CZ model out there, the 452 American with 20" barrel and with SK it shoots very well. On a good day 1" @ 100y. My shooting buddy has recently bought a new anschutz and it doesn't seem to be any more accurate than my old CZ. It also likes SK. Only major difference in ease of shooting them well is the trigger. Mine is (to quote brown dog) " like dragging a canoe up a gravel path" where the Annie trigger is superb. I'm used to mine so I can shoot it well but others struggle! Due a plinking night this week so will put them head to head. Never shot a 455 so don't know if the triggers have been improved over the 452? Ive done the trigger on my 455, it has a lighter spring and the sears have been polished, it breaks at 10z and is like glass. Its at least as good as the Sako which doesn't have the lighter spring in at the minute. I was very impressed with the Annie trigger I tried recently but Im not convinced it would tighten the groups over the other two triggers which are light and break cleanly. The reason I keep thinking about an Annie is the Olympic pedigree but then again I dont expect it will be the same barrel that is used as the average hunter model no matter what anyone might say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6.5shooter Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 http://ukvarminting.com/forums/topic/15670-custom-anschutz/ There is a pic in this post of what my rifle shoots like at 70 yards with sk tifle match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 Al, "probably not"....if 'significantly' means a consistent field prerformance of 1/2 inch rather than 1 inch+ at 100yards. 3/4 inch would help,but hardly a game changer.Individual class rilfles might occasionally have an edge,but you might not be lucky enough to get one.. Of course,selecting the best ammofor the rifle is do-able-start with the good stuff (if it don't do it,it's extremely unlikely the mediocre will!)-I know you are Midas/Tenex already.Cost should not deter-how many rabbits will be shot,and is 5p a time critical-if yes,forget the idea! Litz's current research isn't accuracy oriented,more twist rates and BC,and will be using "custom heavy barrels" not sporters. However,there are 22rf rifles that should be considerably more precise-but they are Target oriented. The (old) BSA Martinis were excellent,can be picked up cheap,and the Grunig/Eimer class of European rifles are accurate,can't be picked up -certainly not cheap! There might be some hope from 22rf Bench Rest rifles(they have a UK established presence/site)-again,not bargain basement though.Downside,of course,is not just cost,but weight-though that might be trimmable /bearable in a cab (non carry) 22rf.Light and dinky,they are not! As ever,look at what the very best can do-olympic 22 rf,for example-and ask ,maybe, could a selected BSA Martini get close?They were capable of quite phenomenal accuracy/precision at 25 yards...in only slightly draughty drill halls,and not just by olympians. Good luck g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palo Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 If you want better accuracy get the Anschutz 1710 which has the 54 action, The 14 series has the 64 action which probably won't shoot any better than your cz. I changed my cz 453 last year for the same reason as you and bought a sako quad varmint. Accuracy is slightly better but I do get extraction problems with some ammo. I did consider the weihrauch so I borrowed my mates and shot it alongside my cz. I tried 3 different brands of ammo and the cz shot better with all 3. My mate has the Anschutz 1710 hb and it is very accurate with match ammo I shot a 10 shot group at 50 yards the measured 1/4 inch centre to centre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted July 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 I have considered buying an Anschutz Match 54 target rifle, there are a few available for sensible money on Guntrader. The idea would be to fit a scope and use it as a long range sniper, I could live with the fact that its since shot in this application. My concern is that most if not all of them will be quite old and well used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryh Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 BA, The difference in calling the wind at 100yards is probably greater than any gains you're going to see. The original Finnfire is a real nice rifle - far better than the Quad that replaced it (only to be replaced itself by the revamp of the Finnfire) . If you want a heavier Annie then possibly look at the MPR. Sorry I do not hold with the 64/54 action argument, the 54 is better on paper and engineered but when you see the witnessed results being obtained by the 'lowly' MPR it normally points to conditions and the shooter i.e. no difference at the target end in real terms in use. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hancock Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 "But will it significantly out shoot the other three at 100yds?" "Significantly", then no as it is all about marginal gains to coin a phrase from Sky Cycling team.. They are all pretty much the same in "real life" at 50 / 100 metres. Al with respect, I like the J-M stock. Each to their own and the fit and balance for me is superb as it the finish, the silk action and the sublime trigger, redolent to a tuned air rifle. Having owned an original Finnfire - which I wish I had never sold - and two Anschutz', personally, I love the HW66 and the fact it was different to the norm. The one gun making waves at the moment is the Lithgow from Highland Outdoors. It seems to work, despite the big marketing push. I'll be having a good look at that at the CLA, but it is top money and I would still go back to the 66, or an Anschutz. Given the option, I would love an Anschutz thumbhole with a fluted barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted July 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 Al with respect, I like the J-M stock. Each to their own and the fit and balance for me is superb as it the finish, the silk action and the sublime trigger, redolent to a tuned air rifle. The one gun making waves at the moment is the Lithgow from Highland Outdoors. It seems to work, despite the big marketing push. I'll be having a good look at that at the CLA, but it is top money and I would still go back to the 66, or an Anschutz. Of course David, stock shapes are personal. Ive had a good number of Weihrauch air rifles and the buuilt quality and trigger is legendary, overall though their rimfire styling just doesn't do it for me. I have been watching the Lithgows with interest and they are starting to appear on Guntrader at more sensible money, there are some currently on for £550. I like the idea of them taking CZ mags but there is no info out there yet one what can be done with the triggers. A review I read said they went down to 2lb which is too heavy for my liking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gun nut Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 I just got an Anschutz MPR about 3 weeks ago Al, haven't shot it at 100 yet but at 50m with eley match its consistently shooting 5 shot groups that measure in the.2s i too was going to buy the 54 action, but its about £350 more for a 1710 and i know i couldnt shoot any better with it, £350 is a lot of practice ammo Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisF Posted July 4, 2015 Report Share Posted July 4, 2015 Sorry Terry , I have too disagree , the NEW Sako , Finnfire II , is nothing more than a Sako Quad with a steel bolt handle & is Re-branded with the name " Finnfire II " , this is a simple marketing ploy to cash IN on the GREAT name the Finnfire has earned . SO in short the New Finnfire II is a slightly modified QUAD , and is NOT a re-make of the Fantastic real P94S Finnfire . This has disappointed a lot of people that thought Sako where going to start making Finnfires again , they are JUST pimping out the stellar rep the Finnfire had earned . I was keen to buy one , until , I found out the truth , that I would be just buying a over priced QUAD , I have always liked the Finnfire , and I have always HATED the QUAD , OPPPs did I say that out loud . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisF Posted July 4, 2015 Report Share Posted July 4, 2015 SO Sako made , Finnfire Quad New Quad ( Finnfire II ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6.5shooter Posted July 4, 2015 Report Share Posted July 4, 2015 I too have been disappointd with the new finfire. Im sure its accurate enough but just too much plastic for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryh Posted July 4, 2015 Report Share Posted July 4, 2015 Chris, Sorry I made the fatal 'assumption' they had realised the errors in replacing the Finnfire with the Quad by re-releasing the original Finnfire as they would have all the design/tooling etc. How anyone can pick up the original net to a Quad and say 'good deal' is beyond me. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted July 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2015 What is so wrong with the Sako Quads? Yes they have a bit of plastic on them and there was some ejection issues but surely they are still as accurate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryh Posted July 4, 2015 Report Share Posted July 4, 2015 BA, No one said they were 'wrong' when taken on thier own, but pick up a Finnfire in one hand and the Quad in the other and you will see the difference. If the Finnfire had not existed then the Quad would be 'nice' If you take the CZ in parallel then the CZ has progressed, adding features, barrel weights, stocks etc. Sako on the other hand had a good rifle in a few sensible combinations then threw it away and produced the Quad - not progress just an economics move. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillair1 Posted July 4, 2015 Report Share Posted July 4, 2015 I too have been disappointd with the new finfire. Im sure its accurate enough but just too much plastic for me! Remember the original finnfire came with a plastic trigger guard, mag, and bolt shroud too. From info filtering out, I believe the ff2 barrel is pinned in, differing from the clamp design of the original. Unfortunately I think the bean counters have taken their toll on the finnfire comeback. Btw DIP stuff via Kinney;s can sort out the bottom metal and plastic quad bolt handle. Not forgetting a trigger spring from Valkyrie Rifles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onehole Posted July 11, 2015 Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 Picked up an Annie Match 541827 Biathlon the other day (made in 1984}which had been sporterised down to 16 inches and mod fitted,,,,,lovely little thing which should do for some informal benchresting too,Will be sleeving the mod to add a little more weight for benching as a little twitchy being so relatively lightweight. I was a little concerned at first that the threading would have opened up the bore a little at the muzzle and it had as I can just feel an air rifle pellet go a little loose on reaching the cut,,,,no matter it still shoots really tight with some groups looking like the test/proof groups supplied by Eley,,,,What makes it a delight to shoot is the ergonomics of the stock,,,lovely slick bolt and ooooo that trigger!!! Not bad for £300,,,not gonna loose ,,,,, One observation compared to my CZ 452 which is threaded and I believe hammer forged barrel but bore feels tight right to the very end??Perhaps someone more learned could come on and comment on this issue/none issue?,,,,Will put pic up of rifle bit later praps,,,,,,,O Sorry probably gone of topic a bit,,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted July 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 Out of interest, was that the Annie Biathlon advertised on the Stalking Directory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onehole Posted July 11, 2015 Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 Out of interest, was that the Annie Biathlon advertised on the Stalking Directory? Yep thats the one,,,,,,O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted July 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 Yep thats the one,,,,,,O Dont tell me it shoots well, I deliberated for quite some time over that rifle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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