17 HM2

[Big Al]

Any thoughts on this caliber guys?

 

Is it any quieter than .17HMR?

 

Is ammo easy to get?

 

Does it have the same quality problems HMR seemed to have?

 

Is the performance a big enough step up from .22LR?

 

Any other thoughts on or experiences of this caliber would be greatly appreciated.

[gbal]

Al,the 17 mach 2 burns a bit less powder than .17HMR,so will perform accordingly-maybe a little quieter,though a good moderator may well leave them quite close. Performance as below:

 

17g @2100 :100 zero drop/drift 75y .7/2.4 100 0/4.4 (88ftlb) 125 1.6/7.1 150 4.4/10.3 (64ftlb)

 

Pretty much as per standard 22rf 40g@1085 100y,0/3.9 (79) THEN 125 5.4/5.9(74) 150 13.3/8.4(71)

 

So less drop,slightly more drift (Velocity/ Weight trade offs) ) after 100y.

 

Hypervel 33@1500 100 )/7 (89) 125 3.7/10.9(76) 150 9.4/15.4 (69)

 

Subsonic eg CCI 40@1050 100y 0/4.4(72) 125 5.9/6.2(67) 150 14.7/8.8(63).

 

Hmmm...

 

17 HMR 17@2500 !00y 0/3.3(136) 125 .9/5.3(116) 150 2.6/8 (99) 175 5/11.3 (84)

 

g

[Big Al]

Thanks George, if it has more drift at 100yds than a subsonic 22LR then it is of no interest to me. I guess that explains why it wasn't so popular.

[gbal]

Thanks George, if it has more drift at 100yds than a subsonic 22LR then it is of no interest to me. I guess that explains why it wasn't so popular.

Al,looks as if nothing in it-here's 100 drift in inches for several brands:

 

17Mach2 all 17g @2100 fps ,except CCI @2010 fops Eley 4.4;Hornady 4.4; REmington 4.4; CCI 6.2 inches drift

 

Subsonics CCI 40@1050 4;Aguila 40@1000 4.7;Eley 40@1065 4.3;CCI SEG 40@1050 4.0;RWS 40@1000 5.4;Aquila 60@950 5.2

 

g

[bewsh]

in practice I don't believe it does

 

I have a m2 and it is infinitely better than the .22lr in HV form

 

apart from the accuracy which is comical, it leaves virtually no damage to even body shot rabbits, very few exits but nothing the amount of bounce and skip runners you get at range from 40gr solids

 

I love mine

 

quieter to shoot than the HMR

almost half the price to feed

can shoot from 10 -150yds without worrying about what I will be picking up at the impact site

 

I bulk buy ammo in bricks of 1000 and see no real issue with supply of ammo

 

very underated IMO

its the round the .22HV should be

[Big Al]

in practice I don't believe it does

 

 

 

You dont believe it does what?

 

Thanks for the other info, its good to hear from someone using one

[247sniper]

My mate uses and and swears by his one, but to be honest, it's a pointless cartridge, not my more then a .22lr and not much under a HMr, I outshoot him with my little .22 with sub sonics, and that is a really quiet round!

 

Along with limited supply and variation of ammo, it does not really offer much ballistic advantage over the .22, and if you want that little bit more why bother with the HM2 when You can just get HMR!

 

I see no advantages what so ever, both over the little .22 and the HMR

[Big Al]

I have been looking at a Sako Finnfire for a while now, its a nice rifle but it has had a switch barrel conversion done on it and the second barrel is 17M2. In truth I would rather buy the rifle in 22LR at a lower price but that option isn't available, they want to sell it as a package.

 

My feelings are its a bit of a pointless cartridge as well when you have HMR sitting above it but thought I would ask the members to see if there was any positive feedback. Im expecting the Finnfire with subs to be good for 100yds so will this 17M2 stretch the legs of the rifle enough to warrant having it?

[Andrew]

My mate uses and and swears by his one, but to be honest, it's a pointless cartridge, not my more then a .22lr and not much under a HMr, I outshoot him with my little .22 with sub sonics, and that is a really quiet round!

 

Along with limited supply and variation of ammo, it does not really offer much ballistic advantage over the .22, and if you want that little bit more why bother with the HM2 when You can just get HMR!

 

I see no advantages what so ever, both over the little .22 and the HMR

 

I agree.

Of all the different chamberings I shoot, the HM2 is the least used. It's a little too little. I have seen no advantage over the quality HV 22LR at typical small game ranges. ~Andrew

[gbal]

Let's just put some figures on some of this-they will support whichever shade of opinion you might wish-there is not a huge niche/advantage/disadvantage .....:

Since the 17Mach 2 is a necked stinger case,lets use the CCI stinger as hyper vel comparator:

 

17 17g muzzle 2010/152 50 1724/112 100 1471/82 range/velocity/ft lb

 

22 32g 1640/191 1292/119 1066/81

 

To about 85 yards the 22 has a little more clout, the 17 has considerably more velocity and if the 17 is zeroed at 75 it does have a superior trajectory - 50 .2 75 0 100 1.2 which gives maybe 25 more useable range.

The 17 has tested as rather more accurate than standard 22rf,and the Stinger rather less....the 17 may have a clear advantage (individual rifles may vary).

 

 

OK. Both the above have fairly frangible bullets,though the 22 tends to more destructive...but it is a distortion to compare the 17 (or stinger etc) to a solid 22 rf bullet.WE need 'apples to apples' bullet comparison- I'm fairly sure eg that the 17 REm with frangible bullets is emphatically terminal on rabbits,and now and again a FMJ 223 might not be....so what, it does not in itself show the 223 isn't an effective rabbit cartridge-such solids are inappropriate for sentient targets.Period.

 

Cost,availability and so on may vary locally,quality of 17Mach2 seems OK.

Once beyond 100y or so,I'd think you need to move into a different performance bracket anyhow (not what can be done by the expert,what can be done by the average shooter and these are not 175 y cartridges-17HMR might be,if needs must restrict to rfs).

 

You can make a case either way,as posters have. Accuracy might swing it for me.

 

gbal

[rsc1960]

I agree.

Of all the different chamberings I shoot, the HM2 is the least used. It's a little too little. I have seen no advantage over the quality HV 22LR at typical small game ranges. ~Andrew

Sorry but I disagree,

 

All the HV .22 ammo I have used has been like shooting a shotgun, in accurate inconsistent and PPP with a loud bang, I had the hm2 many years back and found it ok, but then moved back to the hmr for that little bit more distance,

 

It's a sad day when the makers of the ammo pull down a calibre with poor quality control for what is not a bad little rifle all said in done, IMO it has it's place sadly trashed by as said poor ammo issues that have slated it here in the uk,

 

RSC

[bewsh]

 

You dont believe it does what?

drift any more or less than a .22 HV round

What I can say it is is SOOOOOOO much more accurate than ANY .22HV brand or variant I have tried so how you can tell which is down to drift and which is down to the 2-3MOA capabilities of most of the HV ammo I have ever seen in the UK

 

Sorry but I disagree,

 

All the HV .22 ammo I have used has been like shooting a shotgun, in accurate inconsistent and PPP with a loud bang, I had the hm2 many years back and found it ok, but then moved back to the hmr for that little bit more distance,

 

 

This is the reason the .22HV is not commonly used compared to the subsonic

if you are going to be noisy do it with something that is more accurate

 

similarly HMR ammo is terribly inconsistent, hugely over priced and depending on the target species over powered for its commonly used ranges.

 

Fine if you want to test your range out to 200yds but you better be doing it on a still day with any of them

inside 150 I personally don't see the benefit of the HMR over the M2 especially when you consider the constant ammo issues with squibs, crackers, poppers, (split necks causing damp powder to produce variable MV's)...I should add that I have an HMR too!!

 

the M2 does suffer split necks and am sure if it was used in the volume you would maybe hear horror stories

just google "HMR ammo problem" compared to "HM2 ammo problem"

 

 

90% of the people who have negative comments about one or other calibre are negative about the one they don't have and positive about the one they do.

 

I have both, I was really excited to get the HMR as on paper it looked like the long range vermin round I had only dreamed about!

I also have a WMR....

of the 5 I have in .22lrx2, 22WMR, 17m2 and 17HMR......guess which one doesn't come out very often!?

 

17m2 vs 17HMR - my experience has been

cheaper

more accurate

less variable ammo

more effective at killing rabbits without carcase damage (at £2.50 a pop dressed this is a big deal!)

real world range limitations are negligible

 

ONLY issue I have is the worry of impending ammo shortage ...which CCI have confirmed in writing is not coming anytime soon

[gbal]

17 mach 2 @ 2100fps drifts 4.4 inches at 100y in 10mph wind (data from 3 main producers)

 

22 HV/hyper 32-40 g and 1600-1250 are a tad more variable but around 5 to 6 inches drift at 100y.

They may also be more accuracy dispersed,but the 17Mach2 drifts less ballistically.22WMR drifts around 4.5 to 5.5. The 17 HMR can get down to 3 inches (Fed 17Vmax@2530) and CCIvmax@2550 is 2.9

As said,accuracy and consistent ammo then becomes very critical,and maybe bullet design/performance.

gbal

[Big Al]

Guys,

 

Thanks for your input but most of your comparisons are between the M2 and a hyper velocity .22.

 

Im actually interested in whether or not this M2 would show any significant advantage over subsonic .22s. I dont want another HMR for all the reasons bewsh has already mentioned but I might just buy this rifle if I could see the M2 being a decent improvement over the .22 subs to say 100-120yds.

 

For example would the M2 give me sub 1" groups at 120yds in reasonable conditions?

[Si-Snipe]

I have a HM2. I've had a few .22LR's plus a couple of HMR's. IMO the HM2 is by far the best. It's the price of good quality .22 rounds plus a pound perhaps £6-7 per 50. It has the accuracy of HMR at 100 yds which is my max hunting range anyway with RF cartridges. Noise wise it's very similar to HMR. The ammo is good quality. I've not had any split necks and have shot several hundred.

If noise is a problem then it's got to be .22 with subs.

Very low chance of ricochet with HM2 (as with HMR) compared to .22LR. I'd rather shoot my 17 Rem in places where I wouldn't shoot .22 due to those bouncing 40g lumps of lead.