Big Al Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Guys, Ive read a few stories of poor QC from Hornady and bullet heads being quite different to one and other, recently I read about .224 75gr Amax for example. How much of an issue is this and does Sierra offer any better in terms of quality across the range? Ive also heard that Berger are a premium offering, are they really? Im particularly interested in the .20 and .22 cals but any info would be useful. Many thanks Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onehole Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Hi Al,,,I put up with Hornady as their particular heads suit my needs.I use the 105 6mm Amax and the 75 6mm Vmax,,,,,,,excellent performers once checked and sorted,,,you have probably read my posts on how bad they can be if you look close enough.I suppose to the average reloader/shooter you may not notice or be bothered too much but I admit to being fussy and what goes down the barrel paints a picture down at the receiving end.I have not bought or used enough Sierra products to make any comment but Berger I certainly have and I suppose you could call them an off the shelf custom prioduct and I do use Berger products but on paper mostly,,,in a word "superb" and will generally wring out the best from any rifle that I have ever owned.If only they were able to make a range of tipped varmint heads I would be really excited,,,,,their "MEFs" are nowhere near "Vmax" performance Your interest is partly in 22 cal and in my 223,s I have used Sierra blitzkings in the past and have never had a problem ,,much the same as the 50gn Vmax ,,excellent performers.....The new Sierrra tipped matchkings interest me a lot and would certainly be giving them a go if I had a 22 cal running a 1 in /8/9.....hope you get some more interesting replies,,,,,O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w0rks2much Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Hi, I've not tried the .22 cals but I previously used 168gn Amax in my .308 for target shooting out to 600 yards, the bullet performed well but as I weighed them to sort into batches I noticed a tolerance of +/- of 0.5gn. The accuracy was good depending on what standard you would like to achieve. I experimented with other brands and moved over to 168gn Sierra Match King. The tolerance is +/- 0.1gn and the accuracy has improved with much tighter groups. I know there are a multitude of reasons for improved accuracy but the factory tolerances out of the box did raise an eyebrow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJR Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 What's a bullet head? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Al, O/Dave puts it well. Sometimes varminters/stalkers have to make some compromises because terminal performance matters (not so for target shooters-a clean hole in paper suffices).And some mischief ensies from bules not quite performing as their users had hoped (not always on a well informed basis-one reason berger now put 'hunting' o the 'tin'-though that label is no guarantee. OK,plenty of varmints are shot with all the major bullet makes.Some bullets though are more popular,and you name perhaps the three most used.Berger have the best quality control-they made their name among 100/200 Bench Rest shooters,for whom a .1 moa difference is a real big deal,and continue to set the bar for 1000yard ballistic excellence. I should add,they were also pretty close to the out and out custom niche bullets that some BR shooters used-less so over here-not so available,Bergers were.They are still outstanding varmint bullets. Sierra and Hornady are large scale producton bullets, usually packaged from a mixed run from several dies-which wear out - absolute uniformity is not possible at the price. The usual 'cmplaint' is differences in OAL of the bullet.A nuisance no doubt for those who use COAL (cartride base to tip) to fit their magazine. But seriuos accuracy buffs are likely to be a tad more sophisticated and use CBTO (cartridge base to ogive),using a comparator as well as micrometer. Fortunately ogives are more uniform (though not perfect)-and just how far into the empty space between the lands in the barrel the tip of the bullet is,seems fairly irrelevant to accuracy-given that there is some uniformity of where the ogive contacts the lands. So it could be a lot worse-batching bullets by ogive length of course is possible,and some do so.It can only help,but is a bit tedious,perhaps.Real accuracy nuts (BR) willbe using the most uniform bullets they can get,as above-.1moa is huge in their game.It isn't in 150yard fox shooting,where there is some tolerance-lets say an inch from point if aim,rather than 1/10 of an inch. For skinny crows at 300y,1/10 isn't critical either,but 1inch slack is too much. But ogive seated Sierra,and Hornady will be acceptably uniform-as the groups often shown suggest.Bergers might squeeze a tad more (always allowing that rifles have their individual preferences ). At the very cutting edge for accuracy,try Bergers (or custom),but S&H will usually produce field performance that would be hard to distinguish. 1000y shooters will pay the Berger premium-some is for advanced design too (read BC),and even at a considerable price premium,may not be shooting large numbers of bullets-anyhow,to be competitive,that's the rate. Given the 3 inch crow,and sub 300y range,it's less of an issue for typical varminters. At 200y,any miss is unlikely to be down to a rogue bullet-from a reputable maker,used appropriately and loaded with reasonable care. And generally,small varminters need be a bit more aware of design-a surface skin explosion,and a slip through are both unwelcome, the more so as species size increases. We want maximum dump of energy in the vitals,more than the very last squeezable .1 moa. g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redding Posted April 25, 2015 Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 What's a bullet head? Precisely, as I understand it the "head" of a bullet is the bit between the ogive and the tip, but I stand to be corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCetrizine Posted April 25, 2015 Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 Cartridges are odd. The head is the opposite end to the neck. The bullet should be called the head and the head should be called the bottom, making the primer pocket the... err Anyway back to the question. In my limited experience with 2 different rifles in 2 different calibres. I could never get consistency with Hornady bullets. Fleeting accuracy but no consistency. With Sierra I get good accuracy and excellent consistency. With Berger, I get excellent accuracy and excellent consistency. So I shoot Sierra for fun and Berger for scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJR Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 Nope. Bullets are bullets, not heads, not bullet heads, just plain bullets. It's really that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCetrizine Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 Except, language is fluid and common usage becomes the new definition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onehole Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 Nope. Bullets are bullets, not heads, not bullet heads, just plain bullets. It's really that simple. Yeah ok then bullets,,not heads just bullets,,,,,,,doh!!!!!!!!.............O,,,,come on,,,,,,,! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redding Posted April 27, 2015 Report Share Posted April 27, 2015 Nope. Bullets are bullets, not heads, not bullet heads, just plain bullets. It's really that simple. The Anatomy of a bullet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJR Posted April 27, 2015 Report Share Posted April 27, 2015 http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.kb.alanrhone.com/assets/Ammo-Parts.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.kb.alanrhone.com/article.php?id%3D50&h=298&w=293&tbnid=xzZyNatiy3fUFM:&zoom=1&docid=bInKGY11Ro5saM&hl=en&ei=Nqk-VdHgNsriO8y0gPAD&tbm=isch&client=safari&ved=0CCgQMygKMAo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted April 27, 2015 Report Share Posted April 27, 2015 Except, language is fluid and common usage becomes the new definition. or,sometimes,word useage remains just 'peculiar'-in either original or common meaning of that word! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DW58 Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 The Anatomy of a bullet What's even more stupid in referring to bullets/projectiles/missiles etc. as "heads" is that a rifle/pistol cartridge actually has a "head", but it's at the opposite end, i.e. the base of the case where the primer is inserted and the calibre/manufacturer stamps are, i.e. the headstamp The projectile component on a rifle/pistol cartridge is not and never has been the head, it's quite simply the bullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bri2506 Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Guys, Ive read a few stories of poor QC from Hornady and bullet heads being quite different to one and other, recently I read about .224 75gr Amax for example. How much of an issue is this and does Sierra offer any better in terms of quality across the range? Ive also heard that Berger are a premium offering, are they really? Im particularly interested in the .20 and .22 cals but any info would be useful. Many thanks Al i just started using 39blitz kings and I still think the hornady vmax shoot a lot better in the same weight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddy.223 Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Guys, Ive read a few stories of poor QC from Hornady and bullet heads being quite different to one and other, recently I read about .224 75gr Amax for example. How much of an issue is this and does Sierra offer any better in terms of quality across the range? Ive also heard that Berger are a premium offering, are they really? Im particularly interested in the .20 and .22 cals but any info would be useful. Many thanks Al the last .22 50g blitzkings had a couple of misshaped heads in each box with the green tip loose and not exactly in middle with the jacket slightly wider than the base of the ballistic tip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 My experience is much the same as 'Onehole'. I do continue to use Hornady 129g SST in 6.5mm for stalking but lengths are very variable and I came a cropper when loading one batch out to just fit in the mag only to find the next batch much longer and would not fit......and that is a measure to the ogive each time and not head-to-tip. In my view Hornady could up their game in consistency terms and are too variable by modern standards and in comparison to Sierra / Lapua. However, others are more than happy with Hornady bullets and I have to say that I find their 'ballistic tip' type bullets do not fragment as much as Noslers where I got too much meat damage. Never could get Amax to shoot well in my gun. (260 rem) so I stick to Sierra / Lapua for target usage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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