.222 v .22-250 Accuracy

[Guest Stacka]

Subject to Load Development will a .22-250 achieve the same accuracy as my .222

 

I'm doing 0.42 in groups with the .222 with relatively little advanced load development

[gbal]

Well,quite a number of 22/250s have shot better than .4moa-at one time customised 22/250s were a minor choice in early bench rest;but they never came near to replacing the 222 rem as dominant cartridge,which I think is good evidence for the relative precision potential of the two cartridges.It took the phenomenal PPC to take over the BR accuracy crown,and keep it.

But many many 222rems will shoot considerably better than .4,some will almost halve that-remember the comparison should be apples apples-eg same manufacturer off the peg varmint rifles,or sporters;or comparable custom rigs.

There is always overlap,and exceptions in both directions,and both 222rem and 22/250 rem are fine varmint rifles,but overall the precision edge has to be with the 222rem.Their limitation has been more the dearth of fast twist barrels,and that has given a considerable flexibility advantage to such barrels in 223,though the 223 will not edge the 222 out from top 22cf accuracy spot.The 22PPC might-not many comparable such rifles around,though.

 

Yes ,I know there will be some .2 22/250s,but there are such 222s also,probably rather more-the 222rem cartridge has the overall edge in pure accuracy at 100. And it's just a bit easier to shoot well for the average shooter.

 

gbal

[247sniper]

In Short answer to your question, yes a .22-250 should be as accurate as a .222

 

.222's are inhertly accurate, likewise I know some awsomely accurate .22-250's.

 

With a bit of load development and tuning the .22-250 should be producing far tigher groups then your 0.4MOA .222.

 

Tbh id be disappointed with your .222 results but that's just me ;-)

 

Are you concise ring getting one buddy?

[247sniper]

In Short answer to your question, yes a .22-250 should be as accurate as a .222

 

.222's are inhertly accurate, likewise I know some awsomely accurate .22-250's.

 

With a bit of load development and tuning the .22-250 should be producing far tigher groups then your 0.4MOA .222.

 

Tbh id be disappointed with your .222 results but that's just me ;-)

 

Are you concise ring getting one buddy?

 

Steve

[Guest Stacka]

My groups are good for what I want. I do all my groups from sticks in sitting position, I just figure that that's what I'll hunt with so I should group like that.

 

I'm moving from .222 to .22-250 so hoping I can obtain those sizes again

 

(Just to caveat iv obtained shot on shot before, just not with my sticks)

[247sniper]

I'm moving from .222 to .22-250 so hoping I can obtain those sizes again

 

 

 

You will do buddy

[CZ Varminter]

You sure will I bought a second hand 22-250 and used father in laws load for his 20yr old rifle and it shot 1/2inch. Easy load development and tbh not at all fussy. I used 36gr r15 with SBK 55gr's. Work a treat.

 

All the best CZV

[Sherlock]

A good 22.250 can be every bit as accurate as a good 222.

 

The 222 is a great litttle calibre and will still do the job as well as it ever did.

 

Good examples of these of both these cals will produce sub 0.25 groups - and the occasional 1 holer ( one for the picture book)

In my experience , the 222 loses out to the 22.250 when you get beyond 250 yrds , when the affects of wind and gravity become more prenounsed.

 

 

ATB

S

[22/250 foxer]

Sold my old RPA 22/250 to a friend. So I could have a all round deer fox rifle in 25/06

 

My old 22/250 use to shoot tiny groups with homeloads and wasn't fussy at all with the different loads I had tried in it.

 

My mate just got a load of 50 grain Norma vmax factory ammo cheap. And its shooting those under half inch also.! I wish I had kept it:-) but couldn't justify both rifles

 

I had a Winchester stealth before that. That shot half inch or just over with homeloads.didn't do much tinkering with that rifle

 

Everything I aimed at went down. So didn't bother adjusting the loads anymore. To be fair its nice having a rifle shooting tight groups. But a rifle doing 1 inch is still going to more be then accurate enough for most people's foxing and vermin needs to normal ranges

[Guest Stacka]

Will driving 50gr bullets at 3800fps through the .22-250 spiral staircase the barrel in time

[Big Al]

Can I ask why 22/250?

 

I recently considered lots of .20/.22 calibers for the same uses as Im sure your will be for and just couldn't get excited about the 22/250.

[Guest Stacka]

Matches the .20 flat shooting relatively and I can throw 50gr bullets with that.

[gbal]

223 40g vmax BC .200 drop/drift 10mph/energy ftlb 300y 6/12/479 400y 8/23/330

 

204R 40 vmax .275 4/8/674 13/5/526

 

22/250 50 vmax .240 4/8/720 13/15/536

 

243 58vmax .252 5/9/833 15/17/627

 

 

All SAAMI loadings,for comparability.

All could be a tad hotter-but relative differences remain

 

Can't see much of a case for ballistic differences in field use to about 350y-getting about the limits for very high hit rate in winds-rough guide 5 inch drop,10 inch drift (a bit more than bunny).

Energy is adequate, considerably more with 22/250 and esp 243 for fox.

 

ACCURACY is down to individual rifles-all the cartridges are well capable of 1/2 moa.

The BR cartridges are in the mix too-22 is close to 22/250,6 is close to 243....etc.

 

There are of course minor cost,weight,availability choice etc issues,and plain old 'subjective' ones.

But 'flat' etc does not differentiate the better 20/22 cartridges-or even 6mm at least to 350y,which is getting close to the high confidence limit for them all.Beyond that,only the 22/250 can compete with 6mm,and sorry,I know about wunder 20 rifle shots-there are uber wunder 6mm rifles too.Let's keep sensible. :-)

Have fun chosing.

 

gbal

[Guest Stacka]

I'm using NV I'd not shoot at anything at 300yards.....200yards yes

 

I want to hit hard, fast and flat at 200. The .22-250 with 50gr bullets will do that.

[22/250 foxer]

I'm using NV I'd not shoot at anything at 300yards.....200yards yes

 

I want to hit hard, fast and flat at 200. The .22-250 with 50gr bullets will do that.

if you want one get it. i would have another tomorrow. not knocking the 20's i think there good also i like the fact i could use 22cf for muntjac also

[The_Dogge]

Differences in drop at 200yd between centerfires are practically negligible. 22-250 will hit harder than 204, as said, if you want one... it's a fine calibre for your requirement.

 

George, fix your figures, your 204 gains quite a bit of energy between 300 and 400yd!?

[gbal]

The data support that.Here are the specific 200y figures:

 

223 40vmax @3800 100y .9/1.2 200y 0/5 677ft

 

204R 40vmax @3900 .7/.8 0/3.3 300fps 855 ftlb

 

22/250 40vmax@4150 .6/1 0/4.4 816

 

22/250 50vmax@3800 .8/.9 0/4 2925 fps 949fps

 

243 85SGK@3300 1.2/.8 0/3.5 1360

 

So, 50g 22/250 V 204R -faster,flatter ,harder? .....YES,100fps;NO DIFFERENCE-a very marginal .1 worse at 100 and all zeroed at 200y;YES,almost 100 ftlb .

 

Anyone can discuss whether any of this matters,but not what it is.

 

Differences may arise in shootability (low recoil) in light rifles,etc,but it is mostly,for this class, a fairly subjective choice,for the stated use.

 

gbal

[Sherlock]

Matches the .20 flat shooting relatively and I can throw 50gr bullets with that.

 

 

Mr Stacka ... I must disagree.

 

As a flat shooting calibre - the 22.250 doesnt match the 20 cal .......Its actually is flatter shooting than the 204's & 20 Tacts of this world by some margin. The 22.250 Is also better in the wind and much harder hitting. If fact you need to step up to 20 BR to match or better the 22.250 - then you do so at the expense of a shorter barrel life and the cost of getting a custom rig and the additional reloading efforts.

 

The alledged superior balistics of the 204 over the 22.250 have long since been found to be BS by experienced rifle men on both sides of the pond . Overstating the balistics was simply a sales ploy that was used to get shooters to buy the new wonder calibre, It wasnt the first time marketing like this has been used and IMO it wont be the last. Anyway 10 years on , most people are now a little wiser ( well I certainly am ).

 

Mr Gbal's ballistic predictions for the 20 cal are no doubt accurate as ever - however they are based on the premice that the 20 cal bullet has a BC is 0.275 and the bullet will leave the muzzle at 3900 fps. Both of those assumptions are incorrect in most cases. (unless you have a 26 + inch barrel and possibly shoot in the arizona desert LOl)

I remember testing some factory 40 grn Vmax in my 24 " 204R - the box stated a very exciting velocity of 3900 fps - my crono's actually shown they were doing 3620 fps

 

Once you use the true BC's (0.240 - 0.250) and the real muzzle velocity (usually about 3600 - 3750 fps) . suddenly the 20 cal balistics arent as attractive --- In fact they are only very slightly better than a 223 shooting a 40 grn bullet at around 3750 fps ... and well below the 22.250

 

Its a bit like me stating , that I would be the fastest man in the world - IF i could run the 100 metres in 9 seconds..... , That would no doubt be true. ..Only thing is , in real life , it actually take me 29 seconds - which means I am 3rd fastest in my house.

 

Now before anybody gets the idea that I dont like the 20 cals - totally wrong - I am actually in the process of buying a 20 Tact - and I have had two semi custom 204's - both superb rifles and spent many hours testing them and varminting with them. .

 

From my experience of owning about six 22.250 rifles - This calibre can launch the 53 grn Vmax at over 3800 fps - A 50 grn Bullet at around 4000 fps - and a 40 grn bullet up to 4300 fps. My current 22.250 ( 8 twist ) will drive a 80grn Amax (BC 0.460) at 3280 fps and a 60 grn Vmax at 3630 fps

 

 

204 - velocity testing

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tc_gaYShtYk

.

 

 

 

ATB

Sherlock

[Guest Stacka]

Does the .22-250 burn barrels ?

 

How can I load to help this last

[Sherlock]

Hi Stacka,

 

It alway hard to be precise - from experience over 2000 rounds is doable and still have excellent accuracy.

 

My pal has an original Tikka 590 Continental from the late 80's- He estimates he's fired 2700 shots down the original tube - and it will still goup 3/4 MOA.

 

Barrel life will be seriously affected if you shoot lots and lots of shots in succession so the barrel is glowing like a branding iron .

 

On average I would say between 1600 2000 rounds out of a barrel.. depending on how hot you run it

 

 

 

ATB

S

[gbal]

Differences in drop at 200yd between centerfires are practically negligible. 22-250 will hit harder than 204, as said, if you want one... it's a fine calibre for your requirement.

 

George, fix your figures, your 204 gains quite a bit of energy between 300 and 400yd!?

Oops...! thanks,corrected......maybe I was subconsciously thinking aabout the old timer's assessment of the 22/250 when it first appeared,way back..."she's dead flat to 300,then rars up a mite!"

 

Or ,it was a typo-actually a misread of my near illegible scribbled down figures...

 

The 200y data in subsequent post underline your points 22/250 adds clout,and 243 more so.

g

 

Sherlock-I use/quote SAAMI testing data so that there is some uniform standard-204R in 24 inch barrel,32g @4,075 fps Transduce pressure 57,500;and 24 inch 22/250 52g @ 3740 65,000Transducer (53000 CU).

The fuller data is from commercial published ammo sources-again,I try to compare like with like-eg bullet design(vmax) where possible-it's not possible to always use the same manufacturer,as the don't all use eg Vmax bullets;and once into different manufacturers etc,any variations in BCs get even more variable!

 

I agree that there is some variability,though hopefully it is reduced as above,and subject to a little checking-individual reloading data is more problematic-especially since pressures are not knowable.

 

Also stated-all can be 'hotted up'-actually 22/250 perhaps more (bigger case);I accept in good faith claimed fps etc,but it becomes difficult to compare if different loads are to different non-standards of pressure etc.

 

The relative conclusions do hold I think-there isn't much in it pragmatically at 200y,and beyond the advantage is increasingly to the larger case(s),and is always with them for energy.I think we concurred as much with 22/250 and 6mm,with the important proviso that the 6mm as yet lacks an effective bullet for small sentient targets,though not paper ones,and the 22/250 is better served.

 

The current advertising economy with the truth is the 17 Hornet-'matches the standard 223 trajectory'-maybe,but not it's wind drift resistance or energy.....which are pretty important...

 

The 204R (at least) and 22/250 are easy-both very competent to 200y,as required,and unlikely to be consistently distinguishable in field performance.The 223 derived 20 wildcats can be included,with less margin for energy.

Beyond 300,advantage is increasingly with 22/250 (and 6mm),especially with larger varmints....(essentially,higher BC becomes more predictive of good performance than decreasing velocity...).

 

As it happens,I gave up on Sunday with a 6mm,shooting next to a 22/250,from a very uncomfortable prone position,100y,mirage,15-18 cross wind -neither were beating .5 for 5 shots, mine from a rifle usually delivering half that.I doubt that 223-20 wildcats would have been much better(or worse!).

 

g

[fivehole]

I think the biggest issue is in the mind I had a 204 it shoot very well but I felt under gunned I sold it and bought a 22.250 problem solved.

My best advise is buy what YOU think is best good luck .

[gaz6br]

223 ackley

 

Less powder, better barrel life and no big boom

 

Sorry at to be said

 

Gaz

[bewsh]

how hard do you you need to hit a fox?

 

I chuck 60gr soft points out of my 1:14" twist crappy old .222rem at over 3000 fps and it knocks over roe deer

1.2" high at 100 yds,

bang on at 200 yds

1.5" low at 250 yds

 

MPBR with a sub 3" target, point and shoot out to 250

 

52gr AMax are similar

 

often don't have the time or options to range and dial in the dark on an elusive target

[gbal]

5-600 ft lbs,it seems-though, that may well be more than enough,now and then...

 

Norma Soft Points used to be a top vulpicide choice. +2/0/-4 540 ft lb at 200 zero (short barrels).

Of course that was way back,in the days when BC and BT hadn't been invented,and many scopes didn't have turrets....and didn't need them.